Ewido anti-malware plus lifetime

Discussion in 'ewido anti-spyware forum' started by gerardwil, Jul 2, 2007.

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  1. gerardwil

    gerardwil Registered Member

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    Ewido anti-malware plus product (including unlimited updates over a period of the lifetime of this product), which is not part of the AVG product line, is near the end of its life cycle and we will guarantee to fully support it only until the end of the year 2007.

    This is a small part of a message from Grisoft Sales with an offer from them. Those of you involved will get such a message as well.

    Gerard
     
  2. JerryM

    JerryM Registered Member

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    I received the message, and as far as I am concerned the offer is generous. Although I did not want the IS package it was offered. I opted for the AVGAS.

    Jerry
     
  3. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    I guess I misunderstood. When Vincenz said this:

    I kind of thought that when it was specified that we got software updates and upgrades, that we'd be in line to get whatever Ewido evolved into.

    I'm a little disappointed.

    To me when you say lifetime, you gotta mean it. WinPatrol seems to mean it. Even when the product evolves significantly, your lifetime license means what you think it means.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2007
  4. Triple Helix

    Triple Helix Webroot Product Advisor

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    Well it lasted longer than I thought it would and to get 2 more years is better than nothing! ;) I also opted for the 2 years of AVGAS and after that we will see what's out there! *puppy*

    TH
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2007
  5. nameless

    nameless Registered Member

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    I got this email today. What a joke. Could it be more vaguely worded?

    They're going to "donate" AVG-AS to me for the next two years, and then I can get a 50% discount? So...why do I need to do anything now? Why not two years from now?

    Does the two years start now, or after "the end of 2007", when ewido anti-malware's support officially ends?

    The offer is time-limited? OK, do I have five minutes to respond? Five days? A month?

    There is no web page with more information?

    These are all rhetorical questions. I'm not renewing anything!

    I remember being told, explicitly and without room for interpretation, that when I entered my registration info into AVG-AS, it was still a lifetime license. And now, gee whaddya know, it's not. I know some people will hate me for it, but my point isn't that they shouldn't be allowed to change the name to evade existing "lifetime license" holders (come on, that's just the way it works), but rather, my point is that I was told one thing, and now the story has changed.

    Before you scream at me that they're being reasonable with this nonsense, consider this quote from http://www.ewido.net/en/product/ (which is still there as I write this):

    Now, you tell me: If I have a "lifetime license" for ewido, and it "will continue to be valid", how can that mean anything other than me having a lifetime license for AVG-AS? Are you going to tell me that "will continue to be valid" means "will continue to be valid, unless, well, you have a 'lifetime license', in which case, well, sorry, it won't be anymore"?

    If you have a lifetime license, and it "will continue to be valid" for the new product, you should still have a lifetime license.

    Pffffffffft!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2007
  6. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    Not to belabor this thing, but exact wording on front page of my AVG Software stated:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=154100&page=2&highlight=ewido lifetime

    So apparently I had transitioned to AVG Anti-Spyware.

    But apparently there has been some revisionist history and now:

    Sorry Charlie, you stated unequivocally in writing right on the front page of the GUI that I had an “unlimited license for AVG Anti-Spyware.”

    There is no way I believe Fish is happy about this – just based on what he has posted in the past, I believe he would not have supported this decision, but the Grisoft people made the call -- just a guess.

    The lack of integrity in this bothers me.

    Is the relatively small amount of money going to make any difference in my life – no.

    It’s just the principle of doing the right thing – INTEGRITY.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2007
  7. steveke

    steveke Registered Member

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    I also am a "lifetime" holder and got the letter.

    I would first say that my AVG Anti-Spyware says right on the face of it "You have an unlimited license for AVG Anti-Spyware". So what does that mean?

    In post 4 of the "How to get a Lifetime License for Avg Anti-spyware, Peter of Ewido very clearly states that the lifetime license will remain as so.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=163169&highlight=lifetime avg

    Not a good deal from my point of view-bought mine in January, 2006, so basically a 4 year license for $79.95. At their site a 2 year is 39.95 and its 50% off therafter-so its just under $60 and not paying all in advance.

    Not much to do I suppose. I will probably, after some emails, just get the AVG AS. It looks to me they are just trying to get you in on the other products as I am sure the 50% off will only apply to the product you choose. I am certainly not going to add AVG products because of this lie.
     
  8. ChrisP

    ChrisP Suspended Member

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    I deal with legal contracts day in day out and I can tell you for nothing - they are in breach of contract. If you took them to court they woluld lose. It is clearly a scam to get people on to annual subscriptions.
     
  9. TopperID

    TopperID Registered Member

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    Sadly, I beg to differ - the company ceased to exist when it was subsumed into Grisoft. Since life licences were for the life of the company, we have been at their mercy since that day.

    Now, if Ewido had of been kept running as a wholly owned subsidiary of Grisoft (which I do not believe to be the case) then contractually it may have been different.

    It's rough but at least I've had a better run for my money than I did with Giant AS!
     
  10. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    I agree.

    I needed some very minor support shortly after Giant was acquired and I couldn't get the time of day and I did have an active license with a substantial fraction of it remaining.

    Ewido/AVG have supported people through the transition. Naturally, there have been a few bumps on the way. Wording on the email could have been vetted a bit better. As has already been quoted:
    Well, I'm still here, but strictly speaking, neither the company nor the product remain.

    As for getting exercised over this, from a payment perspective, the current offer from Grisoft is basically cost neutral with respect to what I paid Ewido about 18 months ago to renew with a lifetime license. Neither a great nor a poor deal - simply an average result.

    Sure I'd like a license forever, but in the grand scheme of things, this one is not even on my radar screen of things to be worried/agitated about.

    Blue
     
  11. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    So let’s say that Chrysler buys Ford and after the purchase of Ford states that all the lifetime rust warranties issued by Ford will be honored by Chrysler. They state explicitly, "You now have a Chrysler lifetime rust warranty."

    So that's pretty clear, right?

    It's now not a Ford warranty, it is now a Chrysler warranty.

    Then if they come back in a year and say, "..hey, you bought a Ford warranty (just ignore what we said about you having a Chrysler warranty), we'll give you a gift of extending it for some additional cash, but ya gotta hurry."

    Tell me where the difference lies?
     
  12. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    Once they explicitly transfered the product (with all of its attributes) to Grisoft, the product certainly does remain.

    Remember, this is their quote, not mine:


    Code:
    “Thank you for buying the Plus version of AVG Anti-Spyware. You have an unlimited license for AVG Anti-Spyware.” 

    The product that they identify is AVG Anti-Spyware.

    Has this product gone away?

    Is this product going away?

    Is there ambiguity in the terms "unlimited license?"
     
  13. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    Actually, from a strict perspective of commercial law, that's not a given. It may be true, but it's not a given.
    Unfortunately, my copy, at least when I loaded it, hadn't/doesn't provide that message.

    From a personal perspective, if I'm with the marketing/sales group, I can't imagine the downside discussion and consumption of time is worth the energy expended. As it is, the Grisoft offer doesn't generate revenue for two years, and at that time it may not either. It simply removes a passive support liability that would, in any event, disappear when the product is removed from service. If I were making the call, I'd simply put something like a 25 year expiration date on the program licenses involved and call it a day. I see your point, but I also think that many get too emotionally tangled in things that simply are not worth it. This is one of them. If it really matters to you, vote with your feet and wallet.

    Blue
     
  14. berng

    berng Registered Member

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    It was stated and we were give to understand that the license is lifetime for product and updates. I guess one way to get around it is by discontinuing the product.

    Which does bring up commercial law issues. If Chrysler had a four year warranty, and Mercedes bought them and things did not work out, would they be able to get away with not honoring their Chrysler warranties or stating we'll be nice and honor them for two years? No. And Mercedes would not pull this due to loss of business because of the bad press. I don't see how this is different. Maybe we are used to lower standards from software companies.

    So we'll see. I may try the two year plan but then that's it. Other products will be on the market or other products which I currently have will be improved so AVG will not be needed.

    I will tell my acquaintances about this. May as well let them know where they stand before buying from them.

    By the way other people own or know how to use spell checkers. Maybe someone can give AVG training on their use -
    "Vice-Prezident of Sales Department" - from the email
     
  15. ChrisP

    ChrisP Suspended Member

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    Topper. Im sorry, but the fact of the matter is that they are in breach of contract.

    "ewido anti-spyware 4.0 will now continue under the new product name AVG Anti-Spyware 7.5."

    All current licenses for ewido anti-spyware 4.0 will continue to be valid, and users can change over to the new AVG Anti-Spyware 7.5 for free.

    Its not open to debate, there can be no argument about it. They are in breach.
     
  16. Perman

    Perman Registered Member

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    Hi, folks: I firmly think AVG (or Griosft for whatever ) is VERY SELFISH, why? they only look after their OWN interest. After this episode, who dares to purchase ANY lifetime license from ANY software developer ? If the contract of purchase (license) is NOT worth the paper(or hi-tec email) it was printed on, then how much water their guarantee is going to hold? They have set a very bad precedent for themselves and all others in their community. I have said all along, its curtain time is on the horizon. I think its email of this sort is the FINAL nail spiked on their own coffin. So long EWIDO, and coming next AVG! AVG's any license will mean nothing, if, if some new kid buys it in the very near future. Grisoft, another BAD apple, indeed. :mad:
     
  17. steveke

    steveke Registered Member

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    Has anyone who sent back an email actually seen the change take place?

    I noted that the email requested my "license number" in order to properly process. I am always suspicious of such a request. In the AVG AS it is referred to as a "license code", furthering my suspicions. I also noted that there are no links to the various products. This also seems suspicious to me. Usually they would want you to go and check the products out and provide links.

    I have not responded yet as I am not certain this is valid. As "nameless" pointed out it is very vague.

    A comment from Grisoft here would be nice. Especially if it answered the questions in nameless' post and advised what happens if you do nothing.
     
  18. TopperID

    TopperID Registered Member

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    Contracts are bilateral, not unilateral!

    Can you show me ANYWHERE in your agreement with ewido that the product would be allowed to continue under another name and be supplied by another company, and that that company would be bound by it?

    What you are quoting is a statement made by Grisoft AFTER the fact, it has no contractual basis because it has not involved you altering your position by acceptance or furnishing additional consideration.

    You need to concentrate your mind on the contract you entered into with ewido - that died when the company died. Unless of course ewido extracted specific guarantees at the time of the takeover, and I see no evidence for that.
    There always is argument - that is why we have Courts. Even they cannot agree because decisions of the High Court are overturned on appeal, then the Court of Appeal decision is overturned by the House of Lords, finally their decision is overturned again an international Court - is that the way you wish to go?

    You are talking in certainties when no such certainties exist. We are being offered a two year deal, which objectively is quite reasonable in the great scheme of things; if you think you can overturn that you are welcome to try.
     
  19. Perman

    Perman Registered Member

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    Hi, folks: Is Grisoft in breach of contract? No one really knows, except Grisoft itself. Why? just because no one outside Grifsoft and Ex-Ewido has actually seen the agreement of purchase between these two animals. Therefore, Grisoft takes advantages of this and turns your Ewido lifetime license upside down, let me lose appetite for one day. Software products are intangible merchandises, no physical forms, also offered on unregulated cyberspace internationally. Court actions are seldom enforceable. The smartest thing its consumers can do is to pitch it into non-recycled garbage bin, and remember the lesson. After all, a $39.95 loss will not change your valuable life, but certainly will alter Grisoft's future growth, I can bet one loonie on this.
     
  20. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    Agree. We purchased the "lifetime" license; we did our part by spending the money. They should do their part by honoring their agreement.


    I already did. They stated:

    “Thank you for buying the Plus version of AVG Anti-Spyware. You have an unlimited license for AVG Anti-Spyware.”

    This sentence says it all.

    1) We bought it (thus no additional consideration is required)

    2) The product purchased is "the Plus version of AVG Anti-Spyware." It is not an Ewido product or anything else, it is very specific.

    3) "You have an unlimited license" -- this is very clear.

    4) The product is "the Plus version of AVG Anti-Spyware."

    This is all pretty clear. I only deal with the legal system peripherally, but I doubt that any of this could be seriously disputed in a court. The intent and meaning are pretty clear.
     
  21. ChrisP

    ChrisP Suspended Member

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    You are right Frank. They are in breach. I even ran this past my legal dept at work (all of whom have degrees in law and deal in multi £million contracts) and they confirm they are in breach.

    On another note, I have not had a reply from them with my nes unlock code.

    PS - The fact that they have not specified a timeframe as the law requires them to do means what they say is worthless.

    Any case, I have decided to delete their SW from my PC. I have purchased SAS.

    Hope they go under ASAP.

    Scammers.
     
  22. TopperID

    TopperID Registered Member

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    With respect, it said no such thing, because you did not buy the prog from Grisoft! You actually bought it from ewido and the original agreement referred specifically to ewido. The wording you are quoting was unilaterally substituted by Grisoft after the demise of ewido and after the demise of your original contract.
    If they are busy dealing with million pound deals I rather doubt they took the time to investigate the facts, instead they were commenting on the basis information you conveyed to them - which is likely to be rather different. However, if you wish to persue this through the courts you are welcome to do so.
     
  23. steveke

    steveke Registered Member

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    I am getting more suspicious of this letter.

    I just noticed that "berng" pointed in his post that "vice-president" was spelled "vice-prezident" in the letter.

    Also seems unusual that ewido is not capitalized as it should be.

    All in all this letter is unprofessional and as of now I am not buying that it is real until I hear from Grisoft.

    I am certainly not sending my license code in response to this email.

    I am going to contact Grisoft through their site and see if this is legit. Edit: I have submitted the letter through the Grisoft website. I will post response when received.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  24. ChrisP

    ChrisP Suspended Member

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    Topper, It serves no useful purpose to discuss this further as you are clearly upset.
     
  25. Frank the Perv

    Frank the Perv Banned

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    I pulled this from Lexus, so I can't provide a link, but here is a snippet of legal info that seems relevant:


    There was no demise of the contract. The contract transferred.

    Just as a credit card company changes the terms of card use all the time with no consideration...

    Just as when a chemical company A is acquired by larger chemical company B -- lets say that that chemical company A owes the State of New Jersey $1M for chemical cleanup costs.... there is no way that the obligation goes away. The obligation is assumed by chemical company B.

    There are all sorts of semi-analogous situations I could list...

    Grisoft is wrong.

    I'm not going to spend my time or energy on it, but I wish somebody would challenge them legally just for the principle of holding a large business entity to its stated obligations.

    And I wish Paul Wilders would now kick the Ewido forums off of Wilder's. This board should have standards of who is allowed here, and when there is a clear integrity violation by the larger company, the company should be sent packing.

    Just for clarity, I don't think the Ewido guys here are personally culpable, I think this decision came from corporate and they had little input in it. Just a guess. At least that's what I'd like to think.

    .
     
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