Even after proper drivers, Acronis Universal Restore fails

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by exus69, Dec 16, 2013.

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  1. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Hello,

    Am using Acronis True Image Home Premium 2014 and trying to restore a system partition i.e. C drive of Toshiba Satellite C660 laptop running Win 7 Ultimate to my new Dell Vostro 2520 laptop using the Universal Restore feature.

    I read about the requirements of the same and have the Chipset & HDD drivers in inf,sys format ready. The whole process of restoring goes ahead smoothly without any missing driver error. However when the Dell laptop restarts, BSOD :'(
    It does not boot even in safe mode. After pausing the blue screen I noticed 0x0000007B error which means missing/incompatible HDD driver!! but I've downloaded the same from dell website so I am sure I've the required drivers.

    Even changing the ATA/AHCI mode in the BIOS does not help. When I had backed up Toshiba that was in IDE/ATA mode and the new Dell laptop HDD is in AHCI mode coz the drivers on dell website are AHCI drivers.

    I don't know where I am going wrong. Can anyone please help me out with the same??

    Thank You
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Try to boot the Dell computer in IDE/ATA mode after installing IDE drivers with TBOSDT. See page 27 in the userguide. Because you have Win7 I think you will need the OSDTool (page 31) which is in the paid version.

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/tbosdt.htm#download
     
  3. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Just curious, why do I need a third party software when Acronis itself is enough?? Cant the AHCI drivers overwrite the IDE drivers and boot in AHCI mode?
     
  4. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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  5. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    I do not have a solution for you.

    Playing around with drivers (especially their settings) is a manual task and not something easily automated. There are simply too many variables and one-time-gotchas for any one program (AUR) to get right all the time.

    Drivers and hardware simply interact with each other too much for one program to be aware of.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Unfortunately, Acronis software doesn't have the best reputation.

    Put the Dell BIOS in IDE/ATA mode. Boot the OSDTool...

    Remove installed drivers
    (don't change the HAL)
    Remove all installed drivers
    Go to Driver Install
    Install default IDE and AHCI drivers
    Go back to menu
    Exit

    The computer will restart twice and should boot into Windows and install device driver software. After another restart you can install custom drivers.
     
  7. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    I came across this link http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/howto-drvins-tbosdt-dos.htm which basically says that TBOSDT is helpful in installing storage drivers for a target system with dissimilar HDD controller. But thats what Acronis Universal Restore also does. The reason I am favouring Acronis is because I've been using it now since atleast 3 years so I've got used to it. Its just this Universal Restore thing which is not working according to my expectations.

    Since it didn't work from Toshiba C660 to Dell Vostro, I tried a new Universal Restore from Dell Vostro 2520 to Toshiba C850(both ATA). This time UR asked device drivers *ABCD0000 for Windows 7!!o_O o_O I've never ever heard of a device driver named *ABCD0000. Not a single result of google helped for that matter. I had provided all the chipset, usb and storage drivers but that didn't help.:(

    Many people I've spoken to are pessimistic about restoring to dissimilar hardware and have never sounded too enthusiastic about it although I think its a terrific time saver hence its worth the trouble to experiment.
     
  8. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    I think this name of "universal restore" leads one to believe it can transplant operating systems and complete configurations from one kit of hardware to another.

    I can't see this working except in a few specific (and planned for) situations. Like I just said, there's too much subtle detail involving drivers and their interaction with registry settings and configuration files.

    Far to much for one program (universal restore) to be aware of. And the way applications tie into the O/S is a whole other aspect not addressed.
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    When I was actively beta testing, one of the things they asked me to test was their Hardware Independent Restore. I did have several dissimilar machines.

    Their lead guy, was been involved in imaging from back at the beginning cautioned me that all they wanted to see was that I could boot into windows. If I could it was successful. That was where I stopped. From there I would have had to deal with installing all the correct drivers, update licenses etc. A mess.

    Even recently when I bought two desktops that were identical I thought about this type of restore, and just decided it would be easier and and safer to just to a clean install on the new hardware.

    Pete
     
  10. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    It's "lead guys" like that that make these pet projects. And these pet projects are oftentimes failures outside of the pristine controlled conditions of a lab. Or in the case of software, a development centre, or.. Lab!

    I really really despise that sort of attitude, it is prevalent in marketing and is responsible for so many headaches and disappointments. Marketing seems to say one thing and it is up to you, the hapless user, to make things work - often with extraordinary gymnastics involved.

    That little "demonstration" or "requirement" of just having to boot into Windows is ridiculous. And the fact he emphasized it confirms it. The marketing implies a complete restore, do this & this, and you're on your way. BS!

    In the real world about all one can do is lift documents and some user-data. Or do backups and restores to the same original hardware configuration. Once drivers and settings are involved, forget it! The general exception to the rule is exchanging a hard disk, model for model, or sometimes a bigger one if the controller and partition structure is the same.

    Applications, shortcuts, O/S, settings, registry, et al.. New hardware = fresh install. A one "Universal Restore" cannot be aware of every little detail. It is wholly impractical. They know it!

    I'm also speaking from the perspective of a non-technical user. Us techies and geeks can manhandle and force anything to work, given enough time, whether it was made to or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  11. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Drivers don't mean as much as you think, especially as far as disk handlers are concerned. With other devices, they can be "discovered" and the appropriately working driver is activated for use with that device.

    In the case of disk subsystems, that does not happen except when the Windows system is built from scratch. The biggest problem area has always been ACHI/SATA and IDE/SATA subsystems. Once Windows is built, it cannot detect a different subsystem and will only use the driver assigned in its build. This is why one system built using an ACHI/SATA subsystem driver will not work when you switch the BiOS subsystem to the other... it will BSOD on you.

    The way that has to be dealt with is you have to tell Windows (via the REGISTRY) what subsystem drivers to load when it comes up. If you tell it to load both the above subsystem types, then when it boots, both will be in RAM for use. For a completely successful disk subsystem "dissimilar hardware" process to occur, this directive has to be issued to Windows before the backup is made that will be used for the dissimilar hardware restore. Otherwise systems will BSOD when they come up with the wrong subsystem driver for use with the new, current hardware... remember, the disk subsystem is not "discoverable," it is only assignable.
     
  12. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Yes. I would agree with all that. I just believe "too much understanding" is required on the part of the user.

    Most users would tend to think you can migrate from one system to another hassle-free. That's where my beef'n'bitchn comes in.
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I would tend to agree with you. That feature should be advertised with a lot of caveats or aimed at advanced type users.

    Pete
     
  14. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Spot on, Keatah! Even the registry changes that are required to tell Windows to load all necessary drivers are not necessarily trivial. I would never expect an ordinary user to be able to discover this information much less put it to use... without very careful consideration.

    In my experience... if it's new hardware, it's a new build.
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Keatah,

    I agree. It is specialized. But very useful in the right situation.

    Regarding dissimilar hardware. I've restored desktop images to laptops and vice versa. It works. These were tests. But a practical example...

    Last year I built a new computer and installed Win8. My 7 year old computer was running WinXP with lots of apps installed and my email going back years. I had WinXP drivers for the new computer so I cloned WinXP to the new computer (multi-booting) and got it working. The old computer has been stripped for parts. It's handy to go into WinXP at times to use something that hasn't been installed in Win8. Especially looking at email from a few years ago.
     
  16. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    It is for this very reason that I am ready to take the pains. I know its a big hassle right now and lots of hours of irritation trying to boot Windows on a dissimilar hardware but if it does work, it can save loads of hours of monotony.

    Coming back to the topic, can I restore Windows using Acronis on dissimilar hardware and only use TBOSDT for installing drivers of the target system ?
    It seems to me that UR is not copying the drivers properly coz I've provided all the required drivers in the required format (inf, cat, sys).
     
  17. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    AS Peter2150 pointed out, these apps allow the OS to boot by installing storage controller drivers. So yes, restore the Acronis image and use TBOSDT Pro to install the storage controller drivers.

    It only takes me a few minutes.
     
  18. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Following is the email conversation I had with Terabyte support:

    TS: To test OSDTOOL you'd have to purchase at least
    one copy then if it's what you want, purchase the additional licenses
    needed.

    ME: I am sorry just to clarify I need to pay $14.92 for one copy of TeraByte OS Deployment Tool Suite. With that I can install drivers on unlimited computers is that correct? What is the additional licenses for??

    TS: No, you'd need one license per system. you can purchase one copy to test. It's mainly for removing old drivers and installing the storage driver so windows boots

    ME: So how much do I need to pay to be able to install drivers on unlimited
    systems??

    TS: There is no unlimited license - but there are large discount for larger orders - see http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/purchase-tbosdt.htm. If you need more than 100,000 we could over a little more discount

    I am totally confused. Is that 14.92 USD for just installing drivers on one system?? Can someone using TBOSDT kindly clarify?
     
  19. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    TBOSDT does much, much more than just install drivers. Such as...

    access partitions that are hidden from the OS and even access partitions that aren't in the current partition table to perform the following....view, copy, create and delete files and folders
    edit text files
    install boot code
    create and expand virtual drives
    copy and restore sectors
    run certain DOS apps
    GPT disktype
    run tbosdt scripts, eg change Windows drive letters, Save/Restore registry, convert a physical machine to a virtual machine, allow Windows to boot from a USB HD,
    remove installed drivers, change HAL,
    add, delete and edit registry keys and work with hive files
    install Windows drivers to a non booted OS (eg Storage controller drivers)
    partitioning procedures such as create, delete, resize, format, slide, set active, edit disk signature (BIBM version)
    Edit the registry of a non booting OS
    save and restore the registry
    Remove the SRP
    Install storage controller drivers to a non booting OS
    Remove all drivers from a non booting OS
    change the HAL in a non booting OS
    change drive letters in a non booting OS
    change partition label
    copy files to a non booting OS
    explore and edit files and folders in a non booting OS
    expand virtual machines
    copy and restore the MBR
    Set a partition active
    Set the CHS values for a partition entry
    Set the NT disk signature
    copy a partition to a file and boot from it
    copy a partition and create a virtual machine
    boot WinXP from a USB HD


    The license is slightly relaxed for home users.

     
  20. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Hello,

    Thanks Brian for your untiring efforts I've finally purchased TBOSDT Pro. Do you think this is the perfect place to get started?

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/howto-drvins-tbosdt-dos.htm

    Other links are welcome as well. I am a complete noob as far as PE and plugins are concerned.

    I would like to thank everyone who've participated in this thread with their valuable inputs. There's always a thing or two to learn from others experiences and observations...

    Cheers :)

    Edit: Ok I just noticed a pdf tutorial file on TBOSDT of 78 pages :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  21. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    exus69,

    That How To tutorial is old. It is much easier now. Menu driven.
    Read pages 31 to 39 in the pdf. Make a USB flash drive and play with it. Run makedisk.exe from the dos_tbos folder. I'll get back to you later today.

    You won't be using TBOSDT from IFL as described in the pdf.
     
  22. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    My mistake. I meant maketbos.exe, not makedisk,exe.

    When you made your UFD did you tick all the boxes on the Select the optional components window? You should.

    Does your UFD boot to this prompt....

    >
     
  23. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    Yes thats correct its maketbos.exe and yes I ticked all the options and it boots as well. So here is what I do step by step:
    1) At the prompt I type "tbosdt.exe osdtool.tbs"
    2) Select Physical Drive
    3) Select the Windows installation drive
    4) Confirm the selected Windows Installation
    5) Operation. Am going through the options here.

    Will keep you posted.

    As far as the drivers are concerned do you recommend removing all the drivers from the restored Windows and then installing the basic HDD, Chipset, USB drivers or straightaway installing them without removing the previous ones?

    Just a note am using TBOSDT right now ONLY to install drivers on dissimilar hardware and not for any other purpose. I'll check its other features in future.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Nice work. This is my suggestion for the first attempt. We might have to try several methods.

    Have the BIOS in IDE/ATA mode.
    Boot the UFD.
    Remove installed drivers
    Keep storage drivers and remove all other installed drivers
    Go to Driver Install
    Install default IDE and AHCI drivers
    Go back to menu
    Exit

    Restart the computer with Ctrl Alt Del

    See if Windows boots. There will be a restart and a second boot. It can sometimes take a few minutes to gain mouse/keyboard control to login. Then Driver Software Installation occurs. Wait until it has finished.

    Let me know the result. Positive or negative.
     
  25. exus69

    exus69 Registered Member

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    I followed the exact same procedure and it did not work. I faced the same STOP 0x0000007B BSOD. Btw before restoring the Dell Vostro 2520 on Toshiba C850 I had taken a backup of all the installed drivers of the Toshiba laptop using Double Driver.

    One more point to clarify is that Win 7 was installed on Toshiba in AHCI mode.

    I dont understand why chipset drivers are critical for the OS to boot on dissimilar hardware coz when we freshly install Win7 on any system we generally run the chipset setup.exe after Windows is installed. What say?
     
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