There's this funny difference between the US and EU attitudes toward privacy. Or at least, traditionally. In the US, there's little concern about corporate access to private user data. I mean, consider credit reporting services, Google, etc. But there is concern about government access to such data. The Fourth Amendment. Resistance to national ID cards. Social Security numbers supposedly not to be used as IDs. But of course, post-9/11, there has been government pressure for explicit access to more and more data. Plus what the NSA does anyway, because it can. Conversely, in the EU, there is concern about corporate access to private user data. The Right to Be Forgotten. The new General Data Protection Regulation. But there is relatively little concern about government access to such data. Especially in the UK and France, I think. Less so in Italy, maybe. And with more and more terrorist incidents, there's been more and more pressure for more access.
Yes, those terrorist incidents are very convenient for the authoritarians. A little too convenient, in my opinion.
I think you summarized their attitude very well, this contrast well reflects their historical background and spirits. UK & France are surely forefront, but even Swiss citizens voted for censorship... It's hard problem, I think. On one side, censorship are not very effective for criminals as they know how to circumvent it (these days they'll be more aware than a decade ago) so the consequence is innocent citizens are censored more often. OTOH, LE need to raise the bar, and - they need to show the general public (and Congress) an effort to stop terrorism to convince them...even w/out convincing evidence of effectiveness per cost. (Often mentioned motives of endless pursuit for power and money are IMO just one aspect of the matter.)
Not really. There is concern about goverment access but, and here is the problem, these laws are passed as EU laws and the EU citizens of each country don't have a way to oppose them or even to protest against them. Unfortunately EU has become a kind of dictatorship from Brussels; at least the British were smart enough to exit.
The bottom line is, the EU government considers its primary responsibility is to its citizens, the US goverernment considers its primary responsibility is to its corporations.
I'm not so sure about Brexit. I have a feeling the British people might not realise what they are getting themselves into but I guess time will tell.
I feel similar. Even if they won't have to obey EU laws, they will probably have to implement similar in their own legislation. I wonder if UK courts will try to get to overseas data if that data was important for them? I guess that if this becomes a "norm", they will probably do just the same.
I think there is more to all this than meets the eye. The case that started all this, the data held by MS in Ireland, there are already established treaties that would have allowed the US Justice Dept to work with the Irish authorities that the Irish could have ordered Microsoft to release the data held in Ireland. There was no need for any of this court battle between MS and the Justice Dept so why did the Justice Dept choose that course of action? By the same token, does the EU really need new laws for this too or is there some tit for tat going on between the US and the EU?
I don't know, maybe it's just a show for people. There final goal is probably to make companies store data about their citizens in their country - similar as China and Russia already demand. That way data would be always reachable to courts and police.
Probably so and when you consider, the early days of the internet promised to break down international barriers and promote better relations between people of different countrys, cultures and languages. That directly contradicts some of those in positions of power who prefer the cold war closed border scenario not least, because it fuels the highly profitable industrial military machine. Lawmakers need to look very carefully at all of that and test the legitimacy of what appear to be charades to justify legislation before they find themselves playing into the hands of those who never wanted an open www in the first place.
I agree re the US. But I'm not so idealistic about the EU But that's politics, I suppose, and off-topic here. What's important is that each person needs to take responsibility for their own privacy and so on.
There’s been political evaluations made in this thread which I’d enjoy exploring/rebutting; it’s frustrating to me to not answer the claims that’ve been made. Discussing privacy without such evaluations makes it difficult to get to the root of things. But the host, for obvious reasons, has asked that guests refrain from discussing politics. So with due respect to the host’s wishes, I’ll bite my tongue and in the future avoid placing myself into any similarly uncomfortable positions. Lesson relearned.
You can discuss anything privately, if I was one of them PM me. I am not beyond admitting I was wrong if there is evidence that contradicts something I said.
Proposal Gives EU Judges Power To Demand Data Across Borders https://www.silicon.co.uk/workspace/proposal-eu-judges-data-borders-231437
