DVD images no good!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by mhtaylor, May 24, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    I am unable to verify DVD images. This applies to both the 2-step method (onto a partition first, thence to DVD) and to the direct-to-DVD-in-one-step method. Please note that I can BU to a partition OK & restore from the same; the problem is just with DVDs.
    I'm running XP, using DVD+Rs formatted to UDF with Roxio's Drag to Disc feature. I have ver 7 of Roxio.
    My problem has been with Acronis support for a little over two months. We've tried most everything - cdrecord log files, sysinfo.text files, mounting the DVD-ROM drive, detailed descriptions of how I went about the recording with Roxio, model number of the drive,etc.
    The last email from Acronis says that they performed the task OK & could not reproduce the problem that I'm having.
    I intend no criticism of Acronis support staff; I just wish to try extra sources of information.
    While creating the multi-disc backup, when it comes to the point of inserting the next DVD I get this message from Drag to Disc
    "Media staus notification for drive F:\: Write failure while accessing the media".
    However, when the newly inserted disc spins up the recording process continues smoothly and at the end I get the message "process completed successfully". But the discs won't verify & I can't restore from them.
    I originally bought ver 800 but have the same probs with 826.
    Can anyone help?
    Kind regards,
    Malcolm
     
  2. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
    Aussie, did you try comparing checksums for the images on the HD and the DVD when you used the 2-step method?
     
  3. storage_man

    storage_man Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Posts:
    91
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Aussie

    Have u tried to use Roxio's "DISK CREATOR CLASSIC" to build your DVD's ?
    If not, give it a try - I do this all the time and never had a problem verifying or recovering a image. I never seen anybody have much success with that UDF crap. Create your image files on Disk, Create a DATA disk with the TI image files, and verify and restore when you need to. It works

    Storage_man

    PS: complaining about support will only reduce your chances of fixing your problems
     
  4. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
    As a follow-up to storage_man's suggestion, look at my signature. I always use the 2-step method. I am not even sure it support UDF for DVD's, but Data DVD's are fine.
     
  5. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Thankyou MiniMax and storage_man!
    I've downloaded the checksum program & have begun using it. I'm not sure what I'm doing with it & it does take some time so I'm following both of your suggestions.
    RE: the Roxio Creator Classic tip - yes, I've tried it but when I load up the rescue CD with it for a restore it tells me "this is not a True Image file". The files have names like this

    CBU24MAY051.tib
    but I guess they become a Roxio file or somethingo_O
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  6. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
    The checksum program calculates a "fingerprint" of the file. The idea is to take a fingerprint of a TIB-file that you know are good, e.g. one on your internal hard disk, and write it down.

    Then you copy/burn the TIB-file to CD, DVD, external hard disk, whatever, and calculate the checksum of the copied TIB-file. If they checksum/fingerprint do match, then you have a real, non-True Image, problem.
     
  7. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    I've thrown away the 3xDVD image created last night that wouldn't work.
    However, I've re-verified the image saved to HDD & calculated the checksums for each file, five in all (17GB before compression, 11GB after).
    I'm getting write errors, sometimes hardware errors with funny codes when I tri4ed again this arvo, this time using Classic Creator from Roxio 7. I also have ver 5 of Roxio.
    My DVD-Rom is less than a year old & works well in all other situations. Before I suspect my hardware, I think it may be that I'm uncertain of the Roxio settings for data disks - ver 7 has three filing system choices:Joliet, udf102 and ISO9660. Also there is an option for "bridges"o_O??
    Anyway, all my efforts today using Roxio by itself ( no TI) to create a data disk of the image were marred by errors.
    So, no method using DVDs is working - neither TI with UDF formatted diks, nor Roxio data disks. Yet Acronis found no troubles with my DVD-ROM drive after all there efforts. So, I don't really know what's up - TI works perfectly creating-to and restoring-from partitions, but no luck at all with DVDs!!
    Looking forward to any other ideas. I'll try again creating more DVDs so I can checksum them & do the comparidon, but it'll be a while before I complete that.
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  8. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
  9. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Thanks, MiniMax. I have some reading to do!
    I've been trying to use my v5 of ECDC because of yesterday's troubles with v7. However, the update site is putting me in a loop - I can't download the update to v5.3.5 even though Im a registered owner of v5 Platinum. My current version 5.1.0.104 can't detect my drives under XP Pro so I need the update.
    Since their download site won't work for me & with no email nor phone support for ver 5 anymore, I'll have to resort to "unmentionable" methods I guess!

    BTW, I was re-reading your original post & noted your doubt as to whether TI supported UDF. They do. The following article is what I was originally doing with TI 8.

    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/faq.html#20

    Why couldn't I copy and paste this link? I had to enter it manually!
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  10. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
    Be aware, that getting ECDC v.5 to work with WinXP-SP2 can be .... tricky. It seems like un-installing and re-installing ECDC *after* SP2 gives you the best chance of getting XP-SP2 + ECDC v.5 to work.
    I also said: "Look at my signature" which shows (in blazing red colours) that I am using TI 6.0.
     
  11. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    Have you tried telling Roxio Easy CD Creator Classic 7 to write the DVDs at less than the maximum speed. On one of my machines, if I write at the full 4X that the DVD writer is capable of with Roxio, I get burn errors. If I slow it down to 2.4X, every DVD is perfect. It takes less time to do it right once slowly than to make coasters fast. :)

    If you happen to see a CD/DVD lens cleaner disk for about $10 when you are out, it's not a bad thing to try. I had one CD burner that failed two out of three disks until I cleaned the lens. Most curious, it was on a brand new machine.
     
  12. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    I agree absolutely and always recommend this course of action. If I burn at maximum speed there is a 50% chance I end up with coasters. As I've said many times before, high speeds are o.k. for audio and video disks but very "iffy" for large data files that are recorded right to the outer edge of a CD/DVD.

    Regards
     
  13. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    MiniMax - OK! I did finally scrape up the appropriate updates for ECDC v5 with XP. It was a pleasure to watch v5 burn the three DVDs involved without any errors this time.
    I have also completed your original tip: the checksums/fingerprint comparisons show up as identical. I'm now going to try a restore again.

    Thanks jmk94903 and Menorcaman! Perhaps part of the reason for my final success with the v5 burning was that I did drop the speed to 2.4 this time. I can't recall what it was set at in my failed efforts with v7. It does seem to be very wise advice, worth adopting for every image being burned as they are usually large files ( mine are anyway). Thanks again.

    With the long time reqd to restore (on my old 1.2Ghz anyway!) plus the 16 and a half hour time difference, it may be a while before I post back.
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  14. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Well my joy with the newly-created images on DVD using ECDC5 was short-lived! When restoring with them I got the message "error opening file" and "image is corrupt".
    Yet the original image on the HDD verified OK with TI. The checksums of the DVDs were identical with this image. I have also just used the image on the HDD to restore my C:drive which was wiped in the failed DVD-restore.
    I can't see where the problem is with TI and DVDso_O??
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  15. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    All the checking operations which are successful run under Windows which has more sophisticated drivers for the DVD than when it runs under the Linux environment of the recovery CD to read the DVDs and restore the image, so that may be the problem.

    The very good news is that you have overcome the problems of bad recording. The images on the DVDs are good and match the images on your hard drive. At the very worst, the images can be copied back to the hard drive from the DVDs and the restore run from there.

    The problem now is getting TI, when running from the recovery CD, to read the DVDs correctly.

    If you boot from the recovery CD and use the Check Image function, are the DVD images reported (incorrectly) as corrupt?
     
  16. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Thanks, jmk94903!

    Yes, the Image check from the Acronis bootable rescue CD does report errors, corruption, etc.
    It looks like file 5 (the last one) is OK, but "error opening file" first occurred with file 4. My plan was to keep verifying in the continuing order of file 3, 2 and finally 1, but Acronis wouldn't allow that - kept saying "this is not the last volume of this inage" so the only thing I could do was re-insert the fifth file (becoming a loop) or cancel.
    You've helped my understanding - I think you're saying that I should believe the checksum results, that is, that the image on the DVDs is OK & that the image check is reporting erroneously for the reason you gave. Sounds good to me.
    What would you recommend as my approach nowo_O
    Just recapping, I have no probs using TI when restoring from a partition, only from DVD. I have no probs with a rival program with imaging in any of its functions, but I bought ATI first & despite the hassles I'm having, I still think the program has something going for it. I don't have an ext HDD so I would really like to solve this DVD issue.
    Thamks again and with
    Kind regards,
    Malcolm
     
  17. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Posts:
    566
    Aussie, there is one thing we have not touched upon yet, and that is: Which version & build of True Image are you using? And are the Rescue CD updated to the same build?

    As for the Linux DVD drivers... See if you can get hold of a bootable Linux CD (Knoppix comes to mind). If you are lucky, the Linux CD will include an MD5-checksum program. If not, then you will have to find a (binary) copy of md5sum for Linux somewhere.

    Boot from the Linux CD (which should contain the same type of DVD drivers as the Acronis Rescue CD), and run md5sum on the TIB-files on the DVD. If the checksum is okay with Linux, then I would say that the Linux drivers are fine, and that Acronis needs to update their drivers.

    I know it will not solve your problem, but we will all learn a little bit from it.
     
  18. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Hi!
    Since reading storage_man's post in this thread that recommended me to forget the UDF formatting & use the 2-step method with data disks by Easy Creator, I have been using DVD_Rs for the image.
    Early in the emails from Acronis Support they said that TI can't write images on DVD-Rs so I used DVD+Rs throughout after that, but I still had all the problems.
    Would you advise me to return to DVD+Rs? Acronis never said that TI could not READ the -Rs, only the WRITE function was negated.
    Cheers,
    Malcolm
     
  19. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Hi MiniMax - Firstly, 8-800 with Rescue CD 8-796.
    My most recent effort was with 8-826 & same Rescue version.

    Will update the rescue CD if that'll help, but I know nothing of Knoppix or Linnux in general. Will do my best!
    I have to be away from the computer for a few hours now, but will return to the fray as soom as possible!
    Many thanks,
    Malcolm
     
  20. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    Hi Malcomb,

    If you want to write to DVDs directly from within TrueImage, you have to use UDF formatted disks, DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD+R with Roxio Drag-to-Disc. However, if you are using the two step approach of first making the image to a hard drive partition and then burning the image files to DVD, you can use any type of disk, and they don't need to be formatted.

    I suggest you use unformatted DVD+R disks and Roxio Easy CD/DVD creator to burn the images. Set the recording speed at least one step or two below the maximum. Disks that are written at lower speeds seem to read more accurately.

    Let us know how that works.
     
  21. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Sorry for the late reply, jmk94903 but am getting there, I think.
    I had three failures trying to burn the image with ECDC5 even tho' I have the XP updates for that ver installed.
    Tried with ver 7 Easy Media Centre. Creator Classic failed to burn the image this time too, so I changed the brand of DVD+Rs from TDK to RICOH and my three-DVD image was finally burned successfully.
    I did a checksum test on all 3 discs & everything matched OK.
    Now, the crunch test - I'll attempt a restore using my newly-made image to see if TI will be able to read these discs.
    I have also updated my CD rescue disc (as suggested by MiniMax) so that it is the same version/build as that that I used to create the image on the partition.
    Will get back to you with the results.
    Cheers,
    Malcolm
     
  22. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Hi!
    I didn't actually do a restore.
    The Acronis verify process on two occasions said "error opening file" so I didn't risk it.
    Regards,
    Malcolm
     
  23. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    Hi Malcolm,

    Firstly, I recommend you use DVD + or - rewritable disks (I swear by Verbatim DataLifePlus media). It'll work out much cheaper in the long run than producing all those coasters!!

    Secondly, you state that your DVD burner is less than a year old. Have you considered visiting the manufacture's web site and finding out whether they have a firmware upgrade available for your particular model?

    Regards
     
  24. mhtaylor

    mhtaylor Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Posts:
    45
    Thanks, Menorcaman.
    I have had one look at the LGE website for firmware for my LG drive but no luck. I'll give it another go!
    RE: the DVDs - I s'pose it won't hurt to buy another lot. I've got stacks of new DVDs that have proved no good for True Image! However, the varying brands are all either DVD-R or DVD+R - as yet I haven't tried any RW discs.
    If RWs prove better it'll be worth the expense.
    I can understand personal preference for brand-names because of one's experience with them, but what I would like to know is this: "Is there any superiority of one type ofDVD over another for use with TI?"
    So far in this thread I've heard that in the 2-step method any type will do.
    Anyway, as it's beyond business hours at the moment I won't be able to try the DataLifePlusRWs until later today.
    Back to my DVD drive - that shouldn't be causing any troubles should it? I mean as I posted earlier, the checksums showed that the DVDs were faithful copies of the image on the partition so the burning is OK then isn't it?
    Thanks again,
    Malcolm
     
  25. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    I've read numerous reviews on DVD media, both in English magazines and Spanish. Whilst certain DVD and burner combinations appear to be well optimized, on the whole, Verbatim disks seem to give good results over a wide range of different burners. As for which type of media is better? When using the two-step method I've had good results with DVD+/-RW and DVD+/-R. However, Acronis themselves can't guarantee that TI will work properly with DVD-R disks.

    Your sparodic success in creating an image to DVD indicates to me that even your "good" burns were marginal at best. Bear in mind that the processes for burning an image, verifying an image and restoring an image each place different stresses on your hardware (e.g. CPU utilisation, timing, data transfer speed, etc).

    The other thing to consider is how your hard drive and CD/DVD recorder/player are connected. Are they both on the same IDE controller? If so, separate them by moving the recorder to the other controller (eg. C: drive as "master" on the Primary IDE and CD/DVD recorder/player connected to the Secondary IDE. Also, ensure that the hard drive and CD/DVD recorder/player are both functioning in DMA or UDMA mode.

    Regards
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.