DVD file size

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Harrier, Jul 26, 2005.

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  1. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    In the General Faq:

    How can I use Acronis True Image 8.0 to write the images directly to DVD disks?
    This statement is somewhat puzzling to me and I would like a clarification.

    As a preface, a single side-single layer 12cm DVD is usually listed as having
    a 4.7 GB capacity. However, this capacity represents a decimal rather than a
    binary capacity. In other words the capacity is 4,700,000,000 bytes rather than
    5,046,586,573 ( 1,073,741,824 X 4.7 ). As such, a binary file size can theoretically
    be no larger than 4.38 GB ( 4,700,000,000 / 1,073,741,824 ) to fit on this type of
    DVD. Accordingly, 4.38GB image as a single file would just fit.

    It would seem that it is unnecssary to specify a fixed file size to break up a single
    image into several files, if the entire image is no greater that 4.38 GB and is to be
    written to this type of DVD. If the image were of a greater size than this, it could
    be somewhat more efficiently written over several disks using a file size of 4096MB
    ( 4 GB or 4,294,967,296 bytes ). If you are imaging a FTA32 system, selecting 'Automatic'
    for Archive Splitting, will automatically produce files of 4096MB.

    You could be even more efficient (in packing data onto a DVD) if a file size of 1490MB were
    used. In this case, three files each of size 1490MB would produce a total byte count of
    4,687,134,720 ( 1,048,576 X 1490 X 3), thus packing more data on the disk while remaining
    within the capacity limit. However, while producing a better total byte count, the proliferation
    of files could result in greater disk switching during restore. ( The seemingly most efficient
    file size would be 1494MB [4,699,717,632 bytes], if you ignore any space for admin type
    info).

    With current 4.7GB DVD's, a 2000MB file size would be even less efficient that the 4096MB
    file size mentioned above. For example:

    1,048,576 X 2000 X 2 = 4,194,304,000

    This file size would produce a total byte count less than the 4096MB file size and would limit
    the number of files on the DVD to 2. Any greater number of files would exceed the DVD capacity.

    Is the 2000MB file size an old specification, maybe referring to an old 8cm disk with a
    capacity of 2.92GB, or is there some other reason for this comment?
     
  2. howie123

    howie123 Registered Member

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    I use the FAT32 auto-created file size of 4GB to burn images to DVD which I've previously created on a hard disk. I disregard the 2GB recommendation as the UDF file system has no 2GB file size limitation (unlike ISO, which does). I personally use Nero's UDF DVD feature to burn previously created 4GB image files to regular, blank DVD+R's. No formatting beforehand is necessary nor does packet-writing software need to be installed. This method works 100% reliably for me. The bottom line is UDF has no 2GB file size limitation and therefore the 2GB recommended file size can be ignored.
     
  3. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    I was unaware of the ISO file size limitation. I guess that explains the
    2GB file size recommendation in the User's Guide.

    I just purchased my first DVD drive/burner having outgrown the 700MB
    CD limit which I have been using to create Linux install's. I guess I should
    also get some education on UDF.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  4. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Just to add to what's already been said. If using Nero to burn a DVD-ROM (ISO) compilation then you must enter a split file size of 2000MB when creating the image to your HD. Setting the file size to 2GB will result in Nero throwing up an error when subsequently try to burn the ISO compilation. The error states that the file you are attempting to burn exceeds the ISO 9660 size limitation (or words to that effect).

    An earlier post of mine in the Thread titled <Splitting up Archive> explains the rational behind this and resulted in Acronis changing the True Image On-line FAQ.

    Regards
     
  5. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    A bit of clarification. Howie 123 previously wrote:
    I just used the OEM version of Nero to burn an image to DVD +RW.
    The OEM version isn't exactly like Nero Burning ROM, and as far as I can
    tell, it doesn't have the UDF DVD feature. I played around with the disk
    tools before burning the image and of course ran through a format, transfer
    speed testing, etc. I erased the disk before burning, but don't know if
    that erased the formatting or just data.

    InCD (packet writing software) was definitely needed to write the image
    to the disk.

    Is the UDF DVD feature of the full blown Nero incorporated into the
    software rather than installing InCD separately?

    Does this only work for DVD+R?

    Seems to me I read somewhere that writing to DVD +RW definitely requires
    formating before burning.
     
  6. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello Harrier,

    Does your OEM version have a similar window to that shown in the screenshot below? If so select select DVD, DVD-ROM (UDF) and then click on "New" in order to create a DVD-ROM (UDF) compilation.

    When burning a DVD-ROM compilation you need a blank, unformatted, DVD+/-R or DVD+/-RW. If the DVD has been previously UDF packet writing formatted using InCD then you need to insert the DVD into your DVD recorder, open Windows Explorer, right click on the recorder and select InCD Erase, after which carry out a Quick Erase.

    Packet writing software is needed to preformat a DVD and needs to be running in the background when imaging direct from True Image. However, InCD isn't needed when burning a compilation as per the two-stage method referred to by Howie 123 and as mentioned in the Acronis User's Guide/Acronis Online FAQ #20.

    Yes, burning a DVD-ROM compilation is entirely different to InCD UDF packet writing (drag and drop file copying).

    No. DVD-ROM compilations can be burnt to DVD+/-R or DVD+/-RW.

    Only when using Packet Writing software.

    Regards
     

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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  7. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Apparently, my OEM version only uses Nero Express to burn and that is
    accessed through Nero StartSmart. Sorry, don't know how to provide
    a graphic.

    I suspect that I have a much simpler software package. Since this is my
    first use of the Nero software, I thought I'd try the least expensive version
    before I had to shell out significant dollars. I'm not really sure what
    I am missing or which package I should upgrade to, but my burner will
    burn a DVD +RW at 4X which was the speed used in creating the Image,
    and apparently worked well (Check Image revealed no corruption).
    However, using Nero express (I assume), a format would only write at 1X
    and it took 79min to format a 4.7GB DVD +RW.

    This is in fact the method I used; creating an Image written to disk and
    then burning the files created to the disk. However, I do not seem to have
    the 'compilation' ability with this software.

    Any suggestions as to where I can pick up more advanced Nero software
    without having to mortgage the house?
     
  8. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Hope this works! Here is a graphic of the StartSmart Menu:
     

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  9. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi Again Harrier,

    You may not need to splash out on more software.

    When you click on the down arrow of the Nero StartSmart combi box are you able to select "DVD" (see #1 in screenshot below) rather than the "CD/DVD" shown in your screenshot? If the answer is yes then, hopefully, you will be presented with the option to "Make UDF DVD" (#2 in the screenshot). Select this option and create your new DVD-ROM (UDF) compilation. If your not sure how to proceed from there then just let me know and I'll walk you through it.

    Regards
     

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  10. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    The software is supposedly OEM version 6. InCD is indicated
    as version 4 but I notice I have an error log in the InCD
    directory which reads...

    06fc 05:08:02 19:58:51:23 e=0. Filesystem reports internal version 3.0
    0710 05:08:02 20:13:06:19 e=0. SetEnumErrLevel: errorlevel is 1 [Dflt]
    0710 05:08:02 20:13:07:13 e=0. -- Starting C:\Program Files\Ahead\InCD\InCD.
    exe, version 4.3.12.0 --

    The manual NeroBurningRom_eng.pdf talks only briefly about UDF and only
    in connection with CD's and Bridge CD's.

    And unfortunately
     

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  11. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi Harrier,

    Oh dear, it looks as if you'll need to upgrade your OEM version to Nero 6 Reloaded after all. As for the InCD error, download and run <Nero's InCD CleanTool> to completely remove all traces of InCD and then reinstall.

    Regards
     
  12. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Is Nero 6 Reloaded the right one to get and how might I upgrade from the
    OEM 6 version? I don't see how to do this on the Nero website.

    I'm sorry but the Nero sight is just as useless as many others when
    trying to figure out which products come in which packages and which
    products are the ones you want. I am new to Nero and the OEM version
    which I bought is the only Nero software I have ever used.

    In light of the above, it is also surprising that I would have to use Nero's
    InCD Clean Tool to remove all traces and reinstall. I have only installed
    the OEM version 6, so there are no traces of previous versions of InCD
    on my HD.

    I apologize for what must seem like newbie floundering to you, Menorcaman,
    and I hope it will not deter you in helping further, although I would probably
    be chewing nails by now.
     
  13. berane

    berane Registered Member

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    Beeing a newbie re imaging and backups I recently purchased a copy of ATI and began scanning various forums for information, tips & tricks re its use. I read a post which recommended burning DVD-ROM, found this thread and immediately started to compare my Nero 6 Reloaded-version with the screenshoots supplied by Menorcaman and Harrier. Even after upgrading to the latest version - dated July 15th 2005 - my copy doesn´t show the "Make UDF DVD"- and "Make UDF/ISO DVD"-boxes supplied by Menorcaman. How come? At the same time I got an "incredible" offer to "Upgrade and save" - 30% off - to get the full version of Nero (what differ to the verion I already have - I don´t know). Any ideas how to "solve" this are gratefully acknowledged.
     
  14. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello berane,

    It sounds as if you had an OEM version of Nero 6 Reloaded. When you updated this (not the same as an upgrade) you will still have an OEM version of Nero 6 Reloaded.

    So I guess you and Harrier will need to splash out a bit more dosh for an upgrade in order to obtain all the bells and whistles of the full version.

    Regards
     
  15. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Hello again Menorcaman!

    What is the difference between an upgrade from the OEM 6 version to
    Nero 6 Reloaded as advertised on the Nero site for $41.99 and the
    Nero 6 Ultra Retail version that may be purchased in a store or on eBay?

    I'll ask the question again; do I really need Nero 6 Reloaded? I'm sort of
    looking for the least expensive alternative, the most bang for the buck.
     
  16. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi Harrier,

    I have no idea what the difference is between Nero 6 Reloaded and Nero 6 Ultra Retail version! Best way to find out is to contact Nero Support via their Website.

    I've been using Nero since version 5.0, along with its bundled packet writing application InCD. I've used other burning software prior to that but decided that Nero was the best for me.

    As a matter of interest, what Nero applications are listed when you expand the StartSmart window by clicking on the silver button on the lefthand side? You can see mine listed in the screenshot below.

    Regards
     

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  17. howie123

    howie123 Registered Member

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    Make sure you have the "Expert" Mode enabled (see attached). The "Make UDF DVD" feature will not appear unless this mode is selected...
     

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  18. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Well I guess I'll have to do some more research re: Nero 6 Reloaded v Nero 6 Ultra.

    I am still somewhat puzzled by a previous comment:
    I'll try to state this properly in hopes of getting the correct response:

    If InCD is not required to packet-write a DVD in this procedure, it would
    seem that InCD is not really required anymore unless you are trying to burn
    a disk directly from Acronis. Since the UDF format appears to be the future
    of Data DVD, isn't InCD becoming somewhat obsolete? Other than formatting a
    DVD, is InCD necessary for any other important burning operations?

    The OEM 6 version StartSmart menu expanded looks like this:
     

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  19. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Once a CD/DVD has been formatted using UDF packet writing software (in this case InCD) the software enables you to drag-and-drop files from Windows Explorer direct to CD+/-RW or DVD+/-RW. You couldn't do this without some form of packet writing software running in the background. TI "hooks" into this packet writing software when imaging direct to DVD. Note that Windows XP has a basic, built in, capability to drag and drop files to CD. However, it is very basic and in any case is disabled on installing InCD version 4.3.11.1 or higher.

    As for UDF becoming the future of data DVDs, bear in mind that DOS, early versions of Windows and some other O/S's can't read such large files. Hence the reason for the 2GB ISO 9660 file size limitation when burning DVD-ROM (ISO) compilations.

    Thanks. I just needed confirmation that your OEM version of StartSmart wasn't hiding quick access to Nero Burning ROM. I also noticed in your original screenshot that the button to toggle between Standard and Advanced mode was blanked out. Therefore I felt there was no need to mention it.

    Regards
     
  20. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    It took me awhile, but I managed to make a small comparison
    of Nero 6 Reloaded and Ultra. I hate to turn this thread into
    an advertisement for Nero, but I thought I might as well post
    since it might be beneficial for someone.

    It could not find anything about Ultra on the main Nero site; the
    following URL's explain this.

    NERO 6 RELOADED at www.nero.com/eng/Products.html
    NERO 6 ULTRA at ww2.nero.com/enu/index.html

    Applicatons included in both suites except where indicated:

    Nero StartSmart 2
    Nero Burning ROM 6
    Nero Express 6
    NeroVision Express 3
    Nero PhotoSnap
    Nero Recode 2
    Nero ShowTime 2
    Nero MediaHome
    Nero PhotoShow Express (Ultra only)
    Nero BackItUp
    Nero Wave Editor 2
    Nero SoundTrax
    Nero Media Player (Reloaded only)
    NeroMix (Replaces Meda Player in Ultra)
    Nero Cover Designer
    Nero Toolkit
    Nero ImageDrive
    InCD 4

    As can be seen, the two suites don't differ much but there is
    a comment in the video section for Ultra which Reloaded does not
    contain:

    Capture and export to Nero Digital™


    NERO 6 RELOADED *
    Price:
    Retail Box - 79.99
    Serial # - 59.99

    NERO 6 ULTRA
    Price:
    Retail Box - 99.99
    Serial # - 79.99

    * There is an upgrade from the Nero 6 OEM version to Nero 6 Reloaded for 41.99 (30% discount) -
    look in OnLine Shop under Special Upgrade Offer, but there is apparently no upgrade from
    OEM to Nero 6 Ultra.

    I have also asked Nero support to provide a more detailed comparison. I
    haven't received a reply as yet, but when/if I do, and if there is any more
    info in addition to that above, I will post it.
     
  21. howie123

    howie123 Registered Member

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    I just wanted to add that UDF packet-writing, although a component of the UDF file system, should not be confused with the term "UDF". My method of burning already-created TI images to regular, blank DVD+R's using Nero's UDF DVD feature is most definitely not packet writing. It seems some automatically associate UDF with packet writing but that's just not the case. Packet writing is UDF but UDF is not necessarily packet-writing... :)
     
  22. berane

    berane Registered Member

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    Hello Menorcaman and Howie123,

    Thanks for your help - I now realize that I´ve got the OEM-version (like Harrier) and have to spend some money to get the "Nero 6 Ultra Edition" (with all the bells and whistles). Menorcaman, thanks for pointing out the difference between update and upgrade - at first sight a subtle nuance but which is important.

    According to Harrier, "* There is an upgrade from the Nero 6 OEM version to Nero 6 Reloaded for 41.99 (30% discount) -look in OnLine Shop under Special Upgrade Offer, but there is apparently no upgrade fromOEM to Nero 6 Ultra. "

    However, when updating my version of Nero (apparently an OEM version though Nero 6 Reloaded!) I got an offer "Special Offer for OEM Customers" re Nero 6 Ultra Edition - Version 6.6 :
    "Upgrade online NOW and save up to 30% the downloadable version!"
    The offer quote a regular price at $79.99 and the Special discount offer at $55.99 (30% off). But, when clicking on "More info" ("For more information on Nero 6 Ultra Edition applications and features") I got a page that opens up with "Upgrade to Nero 6 Reloaded - Be up to date with the latest version". Nero 6 Reloaded?? I had in mind Nero 6 Ultra Edition! Never the less, the following applications were listed:

    * Nero StartSmart 2 – command center for the Nero 6 Reloaded package
    * Nero Express 6/Nero Burning ROM 6 - ultra-reliable burn performance
    * Nero Recode 2 – recode DVDs quickly and effectively in Nero Digital!
    * NeroVision Express 3 – create and edit videos and slide shows!
    * Nero PhotoSnap - edit photos with the aid of multiple optimisation options!
    * Nero ShowTime 2– integrated DVD player for real cinema-quality enjoyment
    * Nero MediaHome - stream music, videos and pictures on UPnP-capable devices!
    * Nero Wave Editor 2 and Nero SoundTrax – mix your audio data professionally
    * Nero BackItUp – secure data easily and reliably!
    * Nero Cover Designer – design professional covers!
    * Nero Media Player, Nero Toolkit, Nero ImageDrive, InCD 4 - other useful tools

    Any comments/clarifications to shed some light on this "mixing" of Neros "Reloaded" and "Ultra Edition" are appreciated.
     
  23. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi Howie,

    I agree entirely and implied something similar in my reply to Harrier at #6 above.

    Regards
     
  24. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi berane,

    Personally I would just upgrade to whichever is the cheapest! And just to prove to our Moderators that we are still on topic (well, sort of :D), as far as True Image is concerned, they both include the two most important elements, namely, Nero Burning ROM and InCD.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2005
  25. Harrier

    Harrier Registered Member

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    Hi berane!

    I noticed you mentioned that the Nero 6 Ultra 'upgrade' was offered in an
    'update' from Nero 6 OEM version. I didn't try to duplicate this effort but
    the listing you provided seems to be Nero 6 Reloaded.

    If you want to 'upgrade' to either Reloaded or Ultra, may I suggest you try
    eBay. Both suites are listed for sale and I recently saw several copies of
    Ultra for sale from a UK distributor which might be convenient for you.

    Recent auctions for Ultra in the US were won with bids from $14-$20, a
    nice discount from the $55.99 even with shipping. As Menorcaman said:
    I would hope that howie123 and/or Menorcaman (who seem to have
    become fast friends) would offer a little more to explain why
     
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