Dual booting EFI Win 10 questions

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Elwe Singollo, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Essentially I want to do most of my day to day computing in an alternative non-MS OS but don't want the additional overheads of running 2 OS at the same time brought about by VMs. Neither do I wish to use 'Live' DVDs or USBs. However my play laptop is dead so I'm considering dual booting the one used by the rest of the family. They hate anything that is different, have baulked at anything other the MS I've tried to introduce in the past and are always complaining about tweaks and software changes I introduce when I mess about on 'their' system. They like Win 10 (as I do other than the inherent privacy issues). Its easy to use and secure if not private when I need Windows (for work largely). Hence the suggestion I'll dual boot.

    I'm reasonably clear on how to dual boot on Win 10. I've done it before but wanted to check my understanding and ask if there are any solutions to help me achieve what I want rather than what seems to be the stock guidance I've found searching around.

    Firstly I understand that the introduction of EFI boot in Win 8 and up make it impossible to dual boot anything other than a newer MS OS from the windows bootloader so if I want go with anything other than Win 7 and up I'm a little stuck. I don't want to go back to MBR booting or to older versions of the MS OS but might put up with a choice presented by the windows bootloader.

    With Linux I know I can get Grub2 as a bootloader but I really don't like it (even the pimped versions). I'm sure it is functional but I don't really want booting to be managed by what will effectively be a back-up or secondary OS (to be honest I also don't want to be faced with something that looks like my ZX spectrum from 1982 every time I boot either, sorry know it is entirely superficial but.....). Anything that interrupts my family's switch on an go regime with anything that looks 'different' i.e. not MS will get me an earful even with a short time set to select OS in Grub and then default to Windows wouldn't be ideal.

    Anyway enough of the preamble. What I really want to know is can I boot directly to Windows 10 every time by default without making a selection unless the user intervenes (pressing hot key or even from an inserted USB) when dual booting Win 10 with Linux? If not are there tools that will allow a selection to be made by the Windows boot loader rather than Grub.

    From reading I'm not sure it is possible. I had thought Boot it Bare Metal might be an option as it allows you to boot any number of OSs but to be honest when I looked at it previously I was more than a little baffled. I'm not clear whether it also presents the user with a choice at each boot which ideally I'd like to avoid. I'm also not sure if the trial is fully functional so would let me try this out before I parted with my hard earned.

    Is what I want to do possible? Is Grub or VM my only option?

    As always any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    I have a test UEFI system which multi-boots two Win8.1, Ubuntu and Win10. Four independent OS. The Microsoft Multi-boot method isn't used. There is no boot menu so the same OS keeps loading. Your family won't know other OS are present. Changing to another OS is done from a USB flash drive.

    I wrote this tutorial last year. I've automated the following steps now...
    Restoring the EFI and Recovery partitions.
    Changing Partition Types.

    The UFD has a Boot Menu. Click the OS you want and a minute later the new OS has loaded.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/dual-boot-os-in-uefi-mode.376522/
     
  3. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian, much appreciated. Looks ideal.

    Will give that a try tomorrow.

    Cheers
     
  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I'll try and find my other tutorials. Sorry about the brevity as I wrote these for my own benefit...

    To add Ubuntu..... In IFL PW, delete and create ESP. ESP will be all OK
    Create the two Linux partitions
    Make Linux Native, Type Linux Data
    Make Linux Swap, Type Linux Swap (If don't change the Type they both remain as Normal Data after the install)
    In PW both above partitions show as GPT Entry
    Install Ubuntu to the 3 partitions. Grub to ESP.
    Boot Ubuntu
    Backup the ESP
    Doesn't matter which Type are the Win8s (both Types are readable in Ubuntu)
    After above install, in PW the Linux partitions are Linux Native and Linux Swap/Solaris. (no longer GPT Entry) Types as above (Unchanged).
    Ubuntu partition is 4219 MB used.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Don't take too much notice of these scripts yet. Yours will be slightly different.

    To boot Ubuntu...

    sub main()
    exec("/tbu/imagel --r --uy --um --d:{FAF22757-A01E-4689-B1E8-330A2AFB0EA2}@0x2 --f:#0x64DB89F3@0x1:^"/Images/NewMB/multi/used/ERUb^" --rb:4", 1)
    end sub

    To boot Win10...

    sub main()
    ext("SET PART TYPE 0 0x08 {EBD0A0A2-B9E5-4433-87C0-68B6B72699C7}")
    ext("SET PART TYPE 0 0x04 {0FC63DAF-8483-4772-8E79-3D69D8477DE4}")
    ext("SET PART TYPE 0 0x05 {0FC63DAF-8483-4772-8E79-3D69D8477DE4}")
    exec("/tbu/imagel --r --uy --um --d:{FAF22757-A01E-4689-B1E8-330A2AFB0EA2}@0x2 --f:#0x64DB89F3@0x1:^"/Images/NewMB/multi/used/ER10^" --sp:0x2", 1)
    exec("/tbu/imagel --r --uy --um --d:{FAF22757-A01E-4689-B1E8-330A2AFB0EA2}@0x1 --f:#0x64DB89F3@0x1:^"/Images/NewMB/multi/used/ER10^" --sp:0x1 --ubp --rb:4", 1)
    end sub
     
  7. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian, will no doubt have a few questions when I start. Think I'm following how to set-up the partitions and install the additional OS. Not really clear on the switching bit but will follow the guides and see how we go,

    Cheers
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    You can do the switching manually at first. The scripts are to save a few minutes.
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    It's much simpler with Ubuntu and only one Windows OS. The latest scripts are...

    Code:
    sub main()
      exec("/tbu/imagel --r --uy --d:l0@0x2 --f:l3@0x1:^"/Images/NewMB/multi/used/ERUbnew^" --rb:8", 1)
    end sub
    
    Code:
    sub main()
      exec("/tbu/imagel --r --uy --d:l0@0x2 --f:l3@0x1:^"/Images/NewMB/multi/used/ER10^" --sp:0x2 --rb:8", 1)
    end sub
    
    You only have to restore the ESP and you don't have to change Partition Types. Restoring the ESP from the script takes less than a second. Maybe a minute or so manually.
     
  10. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Hi Brian, thanks for all the info. I'm having a problem though.

    When I try to do the partition work on IFL (for which I have a licence) the PW starts with limitations because I only have the bitbm trial. It doesn't appear to let me create the required partitions. I can delete ESP but not recreate it or create the Linux partitions in the free space. I was able to bring the ESP back in from the back-up so no issues but couldn't go any further. Will try again if/when I can afford $40 for the full featured version.

    Thanks again
     
  11. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    Understood. I did more tests on the method with only Ubuntu and Win10 OS on the HD. It's a lot simpler than having several Windows OS as you don't have to use SET PART TYPE to hide the Windows OS from each other. SET PART TYPE requires the scripts to be TeraByte scripts as Linux tbosdt is needed for SET PART TYPE. You can use Bash scripts instead.
     
  12. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian, from starting the process I think I now understand the concept and hope to come back to it. I'll post here again if so in the hope you'll help me out if I've misunderstood somewhere,

    Regards
     
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    A quick summary.

    Win10 is already installed, create an image backup of the ESP
    delete and recreate an ESP
    create a Linux Native and a Linux Swap partition. Install Ubuntu with grub in the ESP
    boot Ubuntu
    create an image backup of the new ESP
    Now you have two ESP backup images
    restore the relevant image to enable that OS to boot

    BIBM is my favourite software. I've chosen to use a MBR system instead of a UEFI system in my main computer as I'm multi-booting 20 to 30 OS. If I had your computer I'd convert UEFI Win10 to a MBR Win10 and multi-boot with BIBM. MBR multi-booting is much easier than what we've discussed. The MBR conversion is done in BIBM and takes 2 seconds. Your family wouldn't see a boot menu.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    I think I can talk you through the UEFI Ubuntu install using the trial BIBM if you want to give it a try.

    Edit... Sorry, I can't get it to work. The BIOS doesn't see my Ubuntu boot media and I don't know why.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Success. I worked out what I was doing wrong. I was mistakenly using 32-bit media.

    It works.
     
  16. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Brilliant. Yes would be delighted if you'd talk me through the process. Happy to take your recommendations on MBR vs EUFI if easier.

    Cheers
     
  17. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    Using IFW or IFL make an image backup of the Win10 EFI System partition. You should also have an Entire Drive image in case something goes wrong.

    The trial BIBM will not work with a MBR setup. Not longer than a month anyway. Let's use UEFI.

    Download the trial BIBM. Unzip the file and make a boot CD.
    double click makedisk.exe, next
    dot in BootIt Bare Metal, next
    dot in I accept the agreement, next
    don't select Image for DOS (GUI), next
    dot in Mouse Support Enabled, next
    dot in VESA Video, next
    dot in Video Mode 1024*768 - 64K Colors, next
    dot in Partition Work (Don't put a dot in Normal), next
    don't choose any Device Options, next
    tick in Enable USB 1.1 (UHCI), next
    tick in Align partitions on 1MiB Boundaries, next
    ignore Additional bootitbm.ini Options, next
    select your CD burner drive letter (you can use a CD-RW or a CD-R disc)
    Finish

    Have a look at your Win10 partition and decide how much space you can remove from the Win10 partition to create your Ubuntu partitions.

    Edit your BIOS to Legacy mode. In my computer it is CSM (Compatibility Support Module) Enabled, Secure Boot.. Other OS
    Boot the BIBM CD
    In Partition Work, resize the Win10 partition to the size you desire
    Delete the EFI system partition
    Create File System 239/EFh: EFI System partition in the Free Space just created by deleting the EFI System partition. Name it EFI System partition
    Select the ESP just created, Properties. make sure the Type is EFI System (it should be)
    Create the two Linux partitions. Select each partition in turn, Properties
    Make Linux Native, Type Linux Data
    Make Linux Swap, Type Linux Swap (If you don't change the Type they both remain as Normal Data after the install)
    In PW both above partitions show as GPT Entry

    Remove the BIBM CD and click Reboot on the BIBM desktop. Enter the BIOS and change back to UEFI. In my computer it is CSM Disabled, Secure Boot.. UEFI

    Install Ubuntu as per http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=279 using the Something Else method
    When you get to the partitions screen, leave the ESP alone, no edits. In "Boot Loader Installation" reference the ESP.
    Edit the Ubuntu and Swap partitions as per the TeraByte page
    Boot Ubuntu and make sure it's OK
    From Terminal enter
    timedatectl set-local-rtc 1
    If you don't do this the Win10 clock will be in UTC

    Boot your IFL media
    Create a backup image of the ESP. You will now have two ESP images
    Restore the Win10 ESP image. Shutdown and remove the IFL media. It's better to Shutdown than Reboot.
    Press Power and Win10 should boot.

    Boot your IFL media
    Restore the Ubuntu ESP image. Shutdown and remove the IFL media. It's better to Shutdown than Reboot.
    Press Power and Ubuntu should boot.

    We can do the scripting later. Manually restore the relevant ESP at present.

    Questions?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  18. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian, that's all really clear.

    I might get time Sunday. If not definitely Monday to do the work. I'm making the assumption I can try any Ubuntu based distro that boots the same way? I like KDE desktop rather than Unity.

    I'm also still on 2.9 of IFL. That be OK?

    Thanks
     
  19. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  20. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Thanks, yes very helpful. I'll let you know how I go.

    Regards
     
  21. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Brian,

    Just went ahead and did it. Works perfectly with Mint 18 KDE. Would be even more grateful if you'd talk me through the scripting part.

    Many thanks again.
     
  22. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris,

    Excellent. You are a fast worker.

    Forgive the simple instructions but they are my Copy/Paste. First, make an IFL Menu UFD.

    double click makedisk.exe, next
    Traditional- You have control over options. (Custom), next
    dot in I accept the agreement, next
    no ticks in the two ini, next (this screen might not be present)
    Global Geometry----tick in Align Partitions on 1MiB Boundaries, next
    Miscellaneous Global Options, no selections, next
    Additional ifl.ini Options, no additions at present (I use TimeZone=AUS-10), next
    Product Key (it's a short one compared to IFW), next
    Leave Boot Drive Mounted as /tbu/boot, next
    Select at Boot-Show Menu of Scripts Available
    BIBM Licensed Name, Product Key (leave blank if you don't own BIBM)
    For additional options I use TimeZone=AUS-10;GlobalGeoAlign2K=1;ISO8601=1 but you can leave it blank
    select your USB flash drive
    USB Layout... Partition - FAT/FAT32 partition
    Geometry Calculation Method... Use Device
    Finish

    Boot the IFL UFD
    IFL
    (change the file names to your choice)

    Run through the Restore screens to restore Win10ESP.TBI to the ESP
    On the Options screen select...
    Shutdown when Completed
    Log Results to File

    Click Show Command
    Save to File
    In the Save As window insert --uy to make the script automated. Put it after --r as below
    --r --uy --d:
    OK
    In the next Save As window...
    double click boot
    double click scripts
    In the name field call the script Restore_Win10ESP.sh (remember the .sh extension)
    OK
    Exit

    If there is a script error you can edit the script in Win10 with WordPad (but only if you have a UFD, not a CD)

    Now create a script to restore LinuxESP.TBI. Name the script Restore_LinuxESP.sh

    When you boot your IFL UFD the menu will show
    Restore_LinuxESP.sh
    Restore_Win10ESP.sh
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I did some tests on the IFL OS menu. I suggested Shutdown rather than Reboot in the restore scripts, mainly because I kept forgetting to remove the UFD and the UFD rebooted rather than the OS. You can leave it like that (Shutdown) or try this. In the script, change --rb:8 to --rb:4
    --rb:4 is reboot.

    So to change OS, boot the UFD and when you see the IFL OS menu, remove the UFD. IFL is running in RAM. Then click your intended OS and walk away. As you know, the ESP restore takes less than a second.
     
  24. Elwe Singollo

    Elwe Singollo Registered Member

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    Hi Brian, having some issues in that 'On the Options screen select...' instruction I can't see any options screen. I'm on the GUI IFL should it be the terminal I'm working on or....?

    Thanks
     
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Chris, I'm looking at IFL now. The Options screen follows the "Restore To" and then the Warning screen. I'm using GUI IFL too. The next screen is the Summary screen. Not present?
     
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