Driver or fix needed for Dell Inspiron 5675...

Discussion in 'hardware' started by fredlaso, Nov 11, 2017.

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  1. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Except you also need new linux versions to run on latest processors, just like Windows.
    Mrk
     
  2. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Why? In the past 25 years one could install an old version of Linux on a new released cpu and chipset? When did it use to happen and I missed it?
    In fact, it was worst than it is now because then the companies did not release drivers for linux.
    And not that is changed much at the moment... Try to install a linux version released e.g. "last week" on a mobo/cpu that is released in the market "today". One will be lucky if it will be supported after 6-12 months. And in the meantime the new shiny system is used as a hitech coffee table... or one installs windows 10 and waits...
    What exactly are you trying to prove? o_O
    Unless ryzen and 7th/8th/9th generation of intel changed architecture and I missed it, your arguement is invalid.
    The problem with the new systems are not the cpus... are the missing chipset drivers, that Intel and Amd refuse to release.

    Panagiotis
     
  3. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    It's not about being able to install - it's about FULLY supported. You CAN install win7/8 on ryzen and kabylake. You CAN.
    Unsupported means some instructions (through cpu extensions that exist in modern process and not present in old kernels) could fail.
    These failures could be unexpected behavior, performance issues, etc.

    You can install kernel 2.18 on ryzen. Will it work well? Maybe.

    Same for pre-win10 releases.

    There's no consipracy here. It's pure architecture vs kernel compatibility.

    Mrk
     
  4. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    I do not disagree. But still, cannot understand your arguement. If the OS/kernel does not support those instructions they will never be executed.
    What am I missing?
    It will work slower than when used on a modern kernel? I can live with that.
    It will not have signed drivers by microsoft? I can live with that.
    What pisses me of is to not be able to even load the installation disk of the OS because it will not see the hdd/ssd and the usb ports. (eg. braswell)

    Panagiotis
     
  5. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yes you did. And the key word in your bold statement is "deceitful". Your quote does not say "or" can include... ., but just "can include..." .

    So again, you are the one making biased, unsubstantiated, and totally false claims here.
    • There is nothing deceitful going on,
    • All parties are being upfront with their intentions,
    • Microsoft is not calling the shots, it is a joint decision,
    • This is NOT unprecedented,
    • It is not a "secret" agreement,
    • Consumers have other options, the latest hardware works with other operating systems besides W10,
    • It is not designed to gain an unfair advantage (or price fixing) over a competitor or consumers,
    • W10 was offered as a free upgrade to almost everyone for over a year,
    • And of course, this is intended to benefit all companies involved. Businesses don't make business decisions designed to hurt their bottom line.

    • What it IS designed to do is bring to the consumer the most secure, best performing personal computing experience for us consumers by bringing the latest operating system and the latest hardware technologies together and optimized for each other. I call that a win for us consumers.
    Just because an industry does something RockLobster does not like, that does not mean there is collusion, dishonesty, deceit, or a conspiracy going on.
     
  6. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Maybe you can, but there mght be people who can't. A product is supposed to work within its limits. What would you do if you were an os vendor?

    Mrk
     
  7. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    I wouldn't stop manufacturers from making their hardware backwards compatible.
     
  8. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Mrk, I'm not blaming microsoft on this. I am blaming Intel and AMD.
    I am not saying that either microsoft or the hardware vendors should change policy about only win10 being supported. I'm fine with that.
    But at least give unofficial, beta (never to be updated again) drivers.

    Anyway, since money talks better than words, Intel made my decision easier. In the next 2 months I'm going to build a new system and I was between Ryzen and i7 8700K. Not anymore... now my only option is Ryzen.
    One can say big deal... Well if all the users, that do not like 10, get forced in a similar decision it will become a huge deal for Intel...

    Panagiotis
     
  9. RockLobster

    RockLobster Registered Member

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    [QUOTE="Bill_Bright]
    Just because an industry does something RockLobster does not like, that does not mean there is collusion, dishonesty, deceit, or a conspiracy going on.[/QUOTE]

    Yes it does. :shifty:
     
  10. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Not in this universe.
     
  11. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    What if the unofficial drivers break something? Sure, consumers always assume the risk and responsibility when using beta products. But, sadly, that does not stop many from using those beta products on their primary computers - devices they need for work or school or other critical tasks. Then what happens? They b!tch and moan and blame everyone else but themselves which brings bad publicity to Intel and AMD (and likely Microsoft too - because some like to blame Microsoft for everything :().

    Since AMD is on board with this too, I don't see where limiting your choices to Ryzen only does any good. Maybe today, but a lot can happen in 2 months.

    As far as users not likely W10, they really need to get over it. It really is not hard to make W10 look and feel like W7 nor is it hard to limit telemetry if they are paranoid about big brother watching (though in that respect, they should be more concerned with their ISPs, Google, smart phones, and neighborhood whiz-kid).
     
  12. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    That is why I said that they do not have to change their policy. Win10 can remain the only OS officially supported, so they can respond as they respond at the moment "Sorry, only win10 is supported for this CPU and chipset".
    People will bitch either way. Just take a look at the Intel forums the last 2 years... are filled with posts from people that trying desperatly to find a way to install win7 on their systems.

    AMD released drivers for Ryzen and since June/Jully Win7 is officially supported (with some limitations) on that CPU.

    As long as Microsoft does not change policy about forced updates/upgrades... I 'll never get over it and never use it for critical tasks.

    For giving an example (unrelated with Microsoft, Intel, Amd):
    I own a fritzbox 7490 and I administrate/support the same model for a few clients (used in work enviroments). With the latest firmware the functionality of "delayed diversion" of incoming phonecalls is broken.
    And the geniuses in AVM removed all the previous firmwares-downgrades. So now I have to face some pissed-off clients and trying to resolve the issue with AVM the last 3-4 weeks.
    A situation that could have been easily avoided if they gave me any of the previous frimwares or if automatic update was disabled (but even then I should have the option to revert back) after updating.
    If this happend in production systems (eg Win10 after a bad upgrade) the clients wouldn't be simply pissed, they would want my head.:ouch:

    Panagiotis
     
  13. SnowWalker

    SnowWalker Registered Member

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    Just curious; are there still people demanding that Windows 98 continue to be supported, or did they all decide that change is inevitable and move on, or what? At least Windows 10 was a free upgrade. The rate at which systems continue to "evolve" (if that's the correct description), I can't imagine buying new hardware and wanting to install an OS several years old and, and expect it to last indefinitely without the desire or need for updates. Seems shortsighted to me.

    I think it's worse when they force updates on you that your existing hardware can't handle, making you buy a new computer, but my many-year-old computer is handling W10 fine.

    It seems with every update/upgrade there is the same outcry. Maybe we should demand Windows 95 back and stick with it forever. :)
     
  14. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    I accept EOL of security updates for superseded OS's. But if I want new hardware & want to install M$ OS other than W10 & I can't that's wrong. Reading this topic there are smart people on both sides. But there are idiots too.
     
  15. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I agree. But sadly, many refuse to move forward either because they just like W7, or because they don't want Microsoft telling them what to use. And sadly that is shortsighted. For one, it is easy to make W10 look and feel like W7. But to the point, expecting Microsoft (or any company) to spend huge amounts of resources (time and money) on superseded products (with zero $$$ in return on that investment) is just unreasonable. No company can continue to pay their employees, cover their overhead expenses and invest in R&D and stay afloat if there are no returns on their investments.

    It is worse, but the reality is, the vast majority (by a very large margin) of users offered the update had no problems installing the update. And we are talking several 100 million updates! But even a tiny percentage means many 10s of 1000s of unhappy people. And they can make a lot of noise.
    The problem is, bad guys! Bad guys have forced the world to move into a defensive posture. Not Microsoft. Just as militaries must upgrade their weapon systems to thwart their ever-improving enemies, we must upgrade our operating systems. The old systems just are not good or secure enough.

    And again, if Microsoft would not get blamed for the actions of the bad guys, it would be totally different. So Microsoft would rather get blamed for forcing their users into a much more secure and current operating system, then getting blamed for letting users get infected while using obsolete, superseded systems.

    They are stuck between a rock and hard place. So are we. But blame the bad guys. They are the ones who put us here.
     
  16. RockLobster

    RockLobster Registered Member

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    Its not so much that there are bad guys, as who they are. I think most people have realised there is a lot more to malware, who is and has been responsible for it and the motivation for creating it than meets the eye.
    When Sony was caught red handed doing it, every one I knew in IT was talking about it because it confirmed what we had all suspected for a long time. Malware was a covert business tool, used by large corporations.

    When you fully understand what that means and explore the marketing possibilities associated with malware a lot of things make sense.

    You can spy on your competitors
    You can sabotage your competitors products.
    You can sabotage your own product when you want your customers to buy your new version with built in secure-o-matic delux.
    You can sabotage users that are breaching your copyrights.
    You can create a market for anti malware products.
    etc etc...

    Then when Mr President decides to make it policy to intrude on home PC's and the relevant corporations decide it is their patriotic duty to cooperate with, and facilitate that policy while at the same time TLA's are churning out malware tools by the boatload to take advantage of the said corporate cooperation, it was just a matter of time before things started to go badly wrong for the entire network based infrastructure.

    The only good thing I have to say about any of it is, either the new MS CEO is an absolute genius public relations liar, or he is a good guy who knows how it is and wants to change things for the better. I have watched an interview he did several times looking for deceitfulness in his responses or mannerisms and I couldn't see it. So I am inclined to believe he is genuine. For now at least. Time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  17. SnowWalker

    SnowWalker Registered Member

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    If it's not advertised to accept whatever OS you desire to put on it, and you didn't do your research, that's on you.

    But I understand; I would like a new 2018 truck that will accept an AMC/Chrysler I6 engine from the '80s, and be able to remove all the electronic emission controls and junk and put a straight pipe on it.
     
  18. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    That's doable & probably at better performance too.
     
  19. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I am not denying there is corporate espionage going on. But that's a total different ballgame and not the biggest threat to the normal home user.

    Depending on who you listen to, there are 1,000,000 new malware threats released every day! Every day! Even if exaggerated 10 times over, that's 100,000 every day! And those are threats against you and me. Not Sony or The Home Depot.

    Most companies are NOT trying to infect their customers with malware - with the big exception of Lenovo shipping computers with malware and spying on customers, of course. But who knows the involvement the Chinese government has in that company. Same with Kaspersky - though the jury is still out on whether the company execs were in the know, or if they can claim "plausible deniability".

    In terms of what or who a "bad guy" is, you cannot put a "fits all" definition on "bad guy". They come in all shapes and sizes, from the nosy neighbor whiz kid, to organized crime syndicates, to hostile government sponsored spy agencies, and everything in between.
     
  20. RockLobster

    RockLobster Registered Member

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    Who do you think knows enough about the inner workings of closed source OS's and has the developer skills to create a million new malwares every day, that find the exploites even the developers of those OS's are supposedly unaware of?
    We are not talking your average app developer here, we are talking about people with the tech skills analogous to those of a medical brain surgeon, a military navy seal etc. The people with those kinds of skills that are not in well paid jobs in the tech industry are few and far between.
    A million new malwares every day, this is an industry we are talking about here.
     
  21. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    You are missing the point. You seem to be suggesting all these malware developers are working as a group. That is not the case. Most are mavericks, working on their own - but who often share their knowledge with others on the dark web.

    As far as the inner workings of the closed source OS, it is not hard to look inside. The hard part is finding a vulnerability in 30+ million lines of code. It does NOT take a brain surgeon. It takes time and persistence and a little programming skills.
    As I said, there are organizations, but in no way are the majority of the malware developers working as a group.
     
  22. RockLobster

    RockLobster Registered Member

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    They have to be. We know the extent of internet surveillance.
    The anti malware companies have the telemetry to watch in real time every new process running on every internet machine that hosts their software. Then MS also doing that.
    When a malware outbreak happens they watch it spread across the world yet how many out of these millions of malware creators get arrested.
    For a million new malware's to appear every day there has to be tens of millions of people working on it, full time, with apparent immunity.
    The only way that could happen is if the vast majority are working for those with nation state and large corporate resources and protection.

    Edit: There is/was a company called Syveillance that used to publish a malware report every year. This quietly stopped after they were bought out by a corporate entity.
    The last one I read revealed that 50% of malware originated in the US.
    So either there are millions of very smart spotty American kids churning out malware day after day without anyone noticing they did it, or, it is like I say it is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  23. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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  24. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

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    Citing a Kaspersky authored article that doesn't mention much or at all about nation state hacking is not credible.
     
  25. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    The OP has thanked everyone, and it's time to move on. Thread closed. Thank you all for participating!
     
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