Drive Back ups with Protected MBRs

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by L Bainbridge, May 26, 2006.

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  1. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    I have a HP Notebook with a 'protected' MBR/ Bios.
    I'm looking for a disaster rescue solution- ideally that does not require control of the MBR on restore.
    Have tried Acronis TI and Rollback Rx so far and both conflict with the protected MBR: Rollback Rx will install but then leads to a black screen with only a flashing cursor on reboot post install. Acronis TI will image but refuses to load on re-booting to restore.I guess it's the same conflict with both progs. and HP 'support' has been an oxymoron.
    I really need to back up this notebook regularly and am not fussy whether this is as imaging or instant restore program.Any ideas....
    Thanks
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised that your protected MBR is your biggest problem.
    FirstDefense-ISR changes also the MBR and probably RollbackRx too.
    Wait for other replies, maybe other members will find a solution for you. I use Acronis True Image.
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    How are you trying to restore. If you are restoring the system partition you have to do it from the recovery CD. Using the procedure Erik worked out should work.
     
  4. tobacco

    tobacco Frequent Poster

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    What didn't you like about our responses to your post in the FirstDefense ISR forum?. Can you not disable your 'HP Notebook protected MBR/ Bios'?.
     
  5. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    Hey, I found your replies in the FD-ISR forum really helpful with my desktop PC.
    Because of them I got FD-ISR and have sorted out that problem.
    Just wanted to sort out probs. with backing up my laptop, which is kind of a different software problem as the HD on the Notebook is too small for FD-ISR and the back up needs are different....
    Just trying to get help that's all....:rolleyes:
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    You can't use FD-ISR on your laptop either, because FD-ISR can't change your protected MBR. RollbackRx need to change the MBR also and that's why it doesn't work on your laptop.
    Can't you turn off that protection as tobacco already said in this thread?
     
  7. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    No, that's the main issue.
    Doesn't seem possible from inside the BIOS or from HP Protect Tools.
    I have tried ATI using the recovery CD and that hangs in the same way.
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well if you can't change it, it won't be your last problem with softwares.
    What about this one :
    Replicator v3.3.4
    http://www.karenware.com/powertools/powertools.asp
    RestoreIt 7
    http://www.farstone.com/home/ensite/products/restoreit.shtml
    Bootit Next Generation, Image For Windows, Image for DOS
    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/
    WinBackup v2.0 Standard
    http://www.liutilities.com/products/winbackup/
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    BTW doesn't HP have a backup solution for you ?
     
  10. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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  11. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    ErikAlbert -you're quite right there is a back-up package pre-installed on the notebook, which I've removed.
    HP have got a cut down Altiris package as a restore system but it slows the notebook down to a crawl both at boot and when backing up.I've tried using it but it really cannot be configured to do anything useful- I'll use it if I have toobut I really want to see if I can something more user friendly.
     
  12. tobacco

    tobacco Frequent Poster

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    L Bainbridge

    Sorry if my wording came accross alittle strong there but was surprised to see you posting here after seeing you in the ISR forum.While there are certainly advantages about HP Notebook with a 'protected' MBR/ Bios, i personally, and feel you would too, definitely would want the option to disable that feature.Again, i'm not pushing ShadowUser, but maybe look into something like that for the laptop.Maybe create an extra partition with alittle space to copy some of your important files over.And lastly and i don't even know if its possible, but network your laptop with your desktop and see if you can not only image the laptop drive through your desktop, but store the image on your desktop.Again, i don't know if it's possible to do this but it would solve your issues.
     
  13. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I can understand that, I have the same problem with certain MS Applications, that comes with Windows. Just not good enough for me. So I'm not surprised you have the same problem with HP.
    I hope you will find an Image/File Backup Software that loves your protected MBR. It seems to limit your choices in softwares, I wouldn't like this at all.
     
  14. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    that is an interesting situation
    I not expert :blink:
    I haven,t read all the other posts you have made nor all the replies.

    It seems all/most laptops and many "proprietary" manufacturers have some form of hidden partition. Which can be a problem for backing up.

    There might be a bios setting to drop the MBR protection ??
    Check the bios options with whatever hotkey you need?
    Have you taken the box back to the techies at the retailer and talked to them?

    we have all been furiously experimenting with imageing/back-up/ (rollback)? snapshots/recovery options and there is extensive documentation in the various threads arising mostly from the Rollback experiments about MBR issues.

    FD-ISr has been well and truly thrashedout by very experienced users here for years and earned its acclaim.

    All good tried and tested options:

    Ghost/Save and restore (?still fairly new but may be a goer if you can tolerate Symantec: Cf their most recent screw-up with updates)
    Acronis
    rollback
    Terabyte/BootIt
    FD_ISR
    Drive snapshot
    Paragon
    Dantz

    ....and all the others as listed above

    I assume you have already thought of this; If the laptop has usb ports then get external HD enclosure USB>IDE for removable drive (FWIW dont get a sealed unit ie Maxtor, Seagate... no real advantages),

    Drive "cloning" may be your best bet.

    You could then try something like:
    http://www.fssdev.com/products/casperxp/
    has been given good ratings, simple, cheap, comes with bootable CD (as ISO image), offers incremental updates, will copy "to size" ie data only, copies "drive to drive" which mighjt be good. Free trial USB support.
    But might also have issues with MBR control un less you clone drive to drive.
    The support people there have been very helpful and I am not a registered user yet. All questions answered <48hrs and in user friendly terminology.

    The only other soft I have experience with for copying is BootIt: flawless, cheap, bootable floppy or CD created from within the app itself. Free trial Also backs up to any media images or copies.
    Has a very good and respected imaging solutions IFW and IFD and Boot manager. They also answered all my queries before I was a registered user.
    Terabyte will be making a big upgrade to their apps soon.

    Great support. Ask here about your problem:
    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=xover&group=public.apps.bootitng&utag=
    Or try e-mail from the home page.
    They also have FREE ware copy app: Copy/Wipe: which will copy drive to drive "to size"

    You can then keep back-ups on any media supported by these guys and your hardware.

    Your laptop might have/probably has dispensed with floppy bay or uses a USB floppy: without special setups and a BIOS/mobo that supports it you may not be able to boot to Windows from USB drive.

    Be sure your bios is set to boot from CD first if there is no floppy.

    You might have to trial these apps to be sure your BIOS/mobo will support external storage via USB for CD/DVD/HD in the preboot environment.

    To carry it all the way you could create your own BART PE Cd, with appropriate plugins or think about online storage of images/ clones.

    It is a real pain going through all the options, and the array of back-up apps, all claiming to be the best, most reliable, best features, blah, blah, blah...

    I have actually dropped FD-ISR for the moment because of the size of my snapshots. ( I keep virtually evrything on my C partition although I am starting to push some stuff to other drives or partitions as I would like to use FD-ISR again)

    Formulate a strategy for your needs. Fileback-up V Images V snapshots V clones etc
    Are you worried about software screw-up or HD failure etc..

    You will have to spend some time trialling the different options, Heh, nerve racking if you only have one HD.

    Sorry for droning on and jumping about a bit. Have cold and no sleep last night.

    I imagine you have already sussed out all the advice as given.
    Good luck.
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    This is almost a ridiculous situation. Now I understand why savy folks who choose do buy dells, gateways, HP, etc, immediately take them home, and wipe the drives clean.
     
  16. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Cough, sneeze, cough, LOL.
     
  17. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    Thanks Longboard - hope the lurgy goes soon.

    Maybe just personal prejudice (and bad experiences++) but not happy with anything from Symantec including Ghost.
    Tried various strategies to get into protected MBR/Bios- not apparently possible to turn off- HP techies confirm that.Only way to break it is to open the box and remove the CMOS and another board invalidating the warranty!
    FD-ISR (which is now working wonders on my desktop PC) I think is likely to have the same problems as Rollback Rx. Acronis TI similarly wouldn't play ball- even using the bootable rescue CD
    Going to work my way through Restore It,Nova BackUp,Dantz, Paragon and Drive Snapshot when I've got a spare weekend and see if I can persuade any of them to play nicely with the laptop.
    I know you're a big enthusiast for Terabyte looking at the posts and almost all I see about them is positive so I am going to see I they can help me with this.
    My main worry is software corruption rather than HD failure so I think for now my options rest between backing up key files to network/ optical disk using something like Dantz or ATI in file imaging mode only (rather trying to image the whole HD).
    Peter2150's suggestion of wiping the HD is tempting but looking at the HP users group even that does clean the MBR. Ho hum......
     
  18. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    Meant to say doesn't clean the MBR.!!
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I wonder if the MBR Tool that FDISR makes which is supposed to repair damaged MBR's would take care of that. Darn that is frustrating.
     
  20. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    It's taken a while but HDS seem to have found the problem with Rollback Rx on my HP laptop.
    From looking at the EAZ-Fix forums it seems the problem is not with the 'protected' MBR but an incompatibility with the memory modules/ shared system memory on the HP laptop.
    HDS supplied a new version of Rollback Rx (9.01) which seems to work like a dream.
    So far VERY stable as well.
    Looks very promising and maybe we can all go back to using our Rollback Rx licenses again....
     
  21. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Rollback Rx 9.01 ... That's got to be a typo, isn't it? o_O

    If not, PLEASE send me the d/l link!!!
     
  22. L Bainbridge

    L Bainbridge Registered Member

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    Sure is:oops:
    New version= 7.2.1- 9.01 is date of file HDS sent me...
     
  23. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    I see - would you please post the build number?
     
  24. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    I heartily recommend Image for DOS. It leaves the MBR untouched, & works from a floppy disk totally external to Windows.
     
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