Disc or Tape for back-up ?? Advices/comments plz

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Longboard, Oct 16, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I am about to do the big office upgrade and want to know how you feel about tapes ( which has been suggested) or discs for backing up system and data.

    Pros
    Cons
    Comments gratefully recieved.

    As this is work related, there is some $$flexibility
    Want failssafe, no down time, easily upgradeable, security, redundancy and some future proofing ( and "pebkau" proofing )
    Heh: not asking too much is it.? :cautious:

    Thx.
     
  2. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,694
    Hello,

    I am not sure what pebkau is ... Maybe you meant bambleweenie meson disruptor?

    If compatibility is not an issue, tape has several advantages over discs:

    1. Capacity
    2. Long-life
    3. Relative durability

    Discs are simpler because you can plug and play them anywhere and more readily usable by the common guy ...

    Why not both? Long-term tape and short-term disc?

    Cheers,
    Mrk
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,039
    If you go tapes, use the cartridges, then even a dufus can handle them. I still prefer multiple disks, but thats just personal choice.
     
  4. ravin

    ravin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Posts:
    241
    Location:
    South Carolina
    personally I like tape backups. I use an hp dat72 at work and can do a complete computer in short order. Tapes last about 10 years but need to be kept in an temperature controlled environment i.e they don't like temperature changes but overall the tape device if external can be moved from machine to machine with little trouble as it is plug and play.

    If you are looking at rotational backups I might suggest an NAS device and limit each computer to a 5 day backup solution. The nice thing about the NAS device is portability if you need to run from storms etc.
     
  5. Alphalutra1

    Alphalutra1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,160
    Location:
    127.0.0.0/255.0.0.0
    Tapes are the way to go if you ask me. Once you get around the cost for a drive they aren't too expensive, and they are relatively fast, reliable, and easy. Just do "dump" backups for all of your systems and restore with, well, "restore", preferably in a Tower of Hanoi style (openbsd man page explains it much better here)

    Dump/restore are available on any *nix system, and there is even one for windows, but I don't know how reliable it is. Dump/restore is considered one of the most bullet-proof ways of backing up, and I love using them for the simplicity and ability just to run it in a small script.

    Cheers,

    Alphalutra1
     
  6. ccsito

    ccsito Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Posts:
    1,579
    Location:
    Nation's Capital
    From a work standpoint, tapes used to be the major media used to store offline and very large data sets (those 9 track round reels). They have been completely replaced with 36 track cartridges (with robotic arm access) and high speed access disk devices now. The price of disk hardware has dropped quite a bit and now even some very large files are stored on them instead of the offline media.

    Disk - Pros - fast (direct) access and no robot or operator intervention
    Cons - usually more costlier than offline media

    Tape - Pros - usually cheaper in cost and can store them or ship them
    Cons - slow (sequential) access and can degrade after repeated reading and writing

    When doing file searches where the numbers goes into the hundreds of thousands, disk access versus tape access is similar to broadband versus dialup. There is a noticeable time difference between the two.
     
  7. ashishtx

    ashishtx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Posts:
    389
    Location:
    Houston,Texas
    Sorry for some off topic comments, I don't want to hijack the thread
    by any means.
    which one is better DVD-R or DVD+R( If used for backup)
    Being a newbie to backup,
    I have wasted lot of Dvd's while trying to test backup programs, I always end up getting some error message and there is no way i can continue the backup. Any suggestions. Please suggest any good backup program which can convert the physical disk to vmware disk.
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,039
    Hi Ashishx

    That is a totally off topic question. Please post this question in a separate thread.

    Pete
     
  9. ashishtx

    ashishtx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Posts:
    389
    Location:
    Houston,Texas
    My apologies.
     
  10. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Thanks all for replies.

    I should have been a little more specific about the set-ups ( need advice re home as well; doing the home office too)

    At work: server, 3-4 client/workstations plus 2 Laptops on wired and wireless LAN, common/shared web access, networked multifunction printer.

    Home similar: shared access, probably server, 3 "workstations" (with the 2 same laptops going back and forth) prolly remote access or VPN between

    So may options: brain hurting
    I've been in contact with some guys here who friends have had success with: there's really no other way to know.
    http://www.jabbawoki.com/au/?cid=1


    Might give TallEmu a call ;) see if I can get them out of their ivory tower. lol.

    Any one in Sydney with any recommendations ??
     
  11. RealResults

    RealResults Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Posts:
    43
    We just went through this process. The same question was asked in a similar link at Broadband Reports. Here is the link:

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19230819-Need-Info-Windows-Server-2003-Image-Software

    The original question in the above link was options less expensive than Acronis True Image Server. I'm lazy so I'll just quote my response from that link:

    Just one more opinion. Personally, I like this solution. Hope this helps.
     
  12. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    @RealResults :thumb: Thankyou
    Prolly just what I'm looking for was thinking I might substitute Shadowprotect with incrementals for Acronis ?
    I like the rotating NAS drives idea.
    KISS paramount for slow thinking Aussies. :)
    Thanks again.
     
  13. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Tapes ? I saw computers with tapes in several episodes of Columbo, but that is 30+ years ago.
    I would never buy such backup device with tapes. For me nothing but external harddisks. :)
     
  14. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Posts:
    391
    Location:
    USA
    It may be a good idea to consider your particular requirements when it comes to restoration, and take ccsito's pro/con post into account.

    If you think that your office will regularly restore individual files from backup, then tape may cost more in opportunity cost (due to lost time) than disk-to-disk. On the other hand, if you will only rarely restore individual files, then tape can be a cost effective solution.

    Now I'm a bit biased, as our solution (ShadowProtect) is a disk-to-disk product. So take this with a bag of salt. My preferred way to set things up is to use ShadowProtect's Continuous Incremental job type to backup to a NAS, and then use a file sync/replicator (there are plenty these, for free) to copy image files from the NAS to a remote site. This way I can quickly restore from my local NAS, or if the NAS dies, I still have all of my data on my remote site.

    [UPDATE: If you do sync backup image files to a remote site, as I described above, then obviously you'll want to configure your file sync tool so that it doesn't sync delete events, and only syncs an individual file once (does not copy a file if the file is altered). The reason for this is that if, somehow, a backup image file is deleted, or corrupted, on your NAS, you'll want to ensure that your sync tool doesn't mirror that change to the remove site, deleting or corrupting files on the remote store.]

    Now for a note on Continous Incrementals. There's an issue in 3.0 which causes the Continous Incremental job to create a new base (beyond the first base) if your server crashes or is powered off unexpectedly (after it's powered back on) rather than just creating another incremental. This issue has been fixed in 3.1, which is soon to be released.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2007
  15. djg05

    djg05 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Posts:
    1,504
    I used to use tapes before CD's etc. Bought one system then HD sizes went up so needed another. Manufacturer went bust so when the tape drive failed I was left with tapes I could no longer access. At least with CD/DVD you usually have backwards compatability.

    As drives get larger you have more & more delay in accessing sequential access.

    I now use an ext HD but of course that could also fail.
     
  16. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    Even with Karen's Replicator you can misconfigure things,but at least she warns you if you also like to delete events in backups after altering files in the source. KR is not a sync/backup app. but a pure replicator,offcourse you can make KR a sort of sync app. but you have to do it manually because there is no snapshot/hotsync utility build in,so for example if you want to update your office files,you have to close them in order to update your backup files manually,from another perpective this is also a safety measure which i like in KR.
     
  17. ravin

    ravin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Posts:
    241
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Longboard,

    I only have a few comments about work and space requirements... I try to keep the drives as small as possible, I mean they should only hold enough work related software along with the OS to do the job. This way your backups are relatively small and you can keep a greater number of them.

    A well thought out plan and control of work-related and non-work related applications will make choosing the backup plan easier to deploy and use.

    Hope this is helpful.:D
     
  18. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Posts:
    2,024
    To recover as vast as possible i like to narrow down my system part as small as possible,only OS + App. My Documents and pers. data on another part. which are independant backed up with a replicator app.
    To recover my system part. takes only 7 min.with SP.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.