Since the year 2001, I have always purchased new PC parts and built my own desktop PC's for Home use. I typically only Surf the Web and maybe watch some non-HD YouTube videos. I am now considering just buying a Refurbished Desktop PC, to use primarily as a spare PC for occasional use. I still have two (2) homemade Windows 7 Desktop PC's which I primarily use. What are your opinions/experiences with buying Refurbished PC's? I have been told that it is preferred to buy Refurbished PC's from the original manufacturer since they may have performed more thorough tests to make sure that it is working properly. Should I buy Refurbished or do a New Build? Thanks in Advance.
If the budget is a priority, refurbished systems can be really good bargains. I don't think it necessary to buy directly from the manufacturer, but you should buy from an authorized reseller. I note, for example, that WalMart sells lots of refurbished HP computers that were refurbished by a 3rd party, HP authorized service center. I think those are fine. They have been cleaned up and are certified and come with a 1 year warranty. The downside to any "used" system is it is old technology. And if a used factory built system, upgrades may be limited. If you build new, you will have the latest technologies capable of running Windows 10 (which is what everyone should be running to ensure the best security and current and future hardware support). And when you build yourself, you learn so much more. But of course, you will need a bigger budget and you get to provide the tech support.
The reason that I started thinking Refurbished PC's/Server's is that many people who make a homemade UTM Firewall for their Home Network use a Refurbished Dell and added a second NIC. In most cases that should be adequate. However, I was thinking about building my own UTM and enabling all of the features of Sophos UTM (IDS being very resource intensive). I want the potential for maximum data throughput (Several hundred mbps. Currently, my ISP has me at about 110 mbps, but cannot achieve more than about 60 mbps.). I saw a Refurbished Quad Core Xeon HP Server on eBay for $120, delivered. It looks like the manufacturer was making these in the years 2010 & 2011. Since I would not trust the hard drive due to age, I would replace it with an SSD and add the 2nd NIC (Intel chipset). That would bring the price to about $220. I was looking at a low wattage New barebones Server designed for this type of use. It has a Quad Core Pentium with four (4) on-board Intel NIC's. After adding the RAM and SSD the total cost would be around $500. The Quad Core Xeon version of this barebones would probably cost around $800-$900. Too much overkill for a Home Network?
No matter what you do with your locale network, you cannot achieve more Internet bandwidth than your ISP allows. That depends on what you do on your network. By far, most users are adequately protected with a simple home router, fully updated operating system, a decent anti-malware solution (and I use and recommend Windows defender for most users) and most of all, don't be "click-happy" on unsolicited links, downloads, attachments and popups. It is important to note that badguys are lazy opportunists. They seek out easy pickings. If they see any resistance, they move on. So unless a badguy is specifically targeting TheKid7 because he or she knows for a fact, you have something he wants, you just don't need all that other stuff. You can't keep out a determined professional who has specifically targeted you any more than deadbolts, dogs, and a burglar alarm on your house can keep out a professional who knows you have something of value in your home. Doing what you propose for a fun project is fine. Doing what you propose because you think you need it is a different story. In any case, if you are not self-disciplined and you click on an unsolicited malicious link, none of your extra protection will do any good. You just unlocked the door, put the dogs in the bedroom, disabled the alarm system and invited the badguy in.
Didn't mention games. So I'd consider used laptops myself. Surrounded by at least 6 used laptops atm.
It is more of a fun project. I think that I am well enough protected without it. I think that I just want to be able to say that I have a 'Real' UTM on my Home Network, since most people do not have a UTM on their Home Network.
Refurbished PCs are basically brand new PCs. They're overhauled and any worn out components are fixed and replaced and then they're tested for quality and reliability before they go out the door. They can't be called "new" for legal reasons. But they look and perform like a brand new PC at considerable savings. So yes, they are worth buying if you're looking to replace a current one.
You can buy some nice new PC's now days pretty cheap. They even come with USB3 ports, HDMI ect. My current one I bought is a Dell .Came with 8 gig RAM and I added 8 more. Plenty good for me. That was 4 years ago and things have gotten much cheaper since. My monitor is a HD TV, 24 inch. I saw those during the holidays for 150 bucks. I paid twice that for mine. Not sure if Dell sells refurnished but I know HP does. I also using to build my on PC's for years. bought almost everything off Ebay.
I would not call them "basically brand new". Even "like new" is a stretch. While pure electronic components do "wear", this is not something you can see or even test for. They can test to see if the motherboard, CPU, graphics card, RAM and power supply work - and if they do, then that's it. They don't refurbish them beyond that, other than [hopefully] make sure it is thoroughly clean and looks "brand new". So in terms of "wear" that means things with moving parts like like power buttons, fans, drive motors, and keys on the keyboard. But even if the fan and drive motors are years old, if still spinning up to speed, they will not be replaced even though they will have years of wear on them too. At most the drive will be wiped and a new OS image put on it - hopefully with a legal license though that is not always the case! Another problem, as I mentioned above, is that a "used" computer will most likely not be of the latest technologies. It may still have Windows 7 on it and that OS is pushing 8 years old. So with old technology hardware and old operating systems, they don't perform like a brand new computer. They can still be a bargain, but they are still used.
Refurbishers do replace components that are damaged or not working and they actually test the computer to make sure it runs. PC manufacturers don't even do that on new PCs. Your best bet in picking up a refurbished computer is to buy from Microsoft-certified refurbisher. I have an HP Compaq business PC with Windows 7 that I bought last year and its running like a champ! If you must have the latest and greatest, go brand new. Otherwise a refurbished PC can keep you happy for many years.
"Should I buy Refurbished or do a New Build?" since you have already built two yourself, why not build another. that is cheaper yet.
That's very true. I am just saying even if working perfectly, they are still using older technology hardware. The exception would be those computers that were just returned shortly after original purchase and the retailer cannot legally sell the "open boxes" as new items. But the fact is, most "refurbished" computers have been in use for 3 years or longer. That said, Norman is right that they are tested and most even come with a 1 year warranty too. Cheaper than refurbished? Not even! It is important to note that HP, Dell, Acer, etc. can go to ASUS, WD, Micron, etc. and promise to buy 1,000,000 motherboards, hard drives, and RAM sticks over the next 12 months. With that level of volume purchasing, they can demand and get huge volume discounts that home and small-time custom builders can't. I always tell my clients I cannot match the factory builders in price, but I can build a better computer specifically built for them. And more significantly, IMO, is my builds don't include any proprietary parts like some factory builds do.
Very true Bill. I also built my share over the years. Like I said I have not checked prices for some years but even back then things were cheap on ebay. Some of these ebay dudes used to buy 1000 of parts and too can sell them cheaper then a person selling one or two parts.
Dell has a pretty good system in place for getting either refurbished or "Scratch and Dent" stuff. Frequently a system will be returned for a scuff on the box or a bad video card. For those that don't mind a scratch or can tolerate dell swapping out a card, they can save a bunch of cash. Plus you get a warranty. Boredog- I love you but have to disagree about EBay- most of the prices on current components can be WAY over the price you get them at Newegg and God alone knows what you get.
A PC can be returned by a customer and its up to spec but they didn't like the color or didn't suit them for some other reason. Its still new but it can no longer be sold as new for legal reasons and ends up being sold as refurbished. So don't overlook a computer just because it isn't new - if it comes with a warranty, its a definite buy!
This is true. Savings via the Dell Outlet can range from $300 to over $1000 and you get the full 1 year Dell warranty. Buying last year's system always saves a rather large amount - same CPU as this years model and just about everything essentially equivalent - at a minimum $300 savings. Having the newest system is of questionable value when it might save you perhaps no more than 5 - 10 minutes in a typical 10 hour computing day. Take the savings and invest in a killer-speed SSD instead of the latest, greatest CPU. The 10 % increase in CPU capability won't make a practical difference unless you are doing some really CPU intensive work like CAD or video editing whereas a really fast SSD makes a demonstrable difference in day-to-day computing. eBay is full of scams, used systems with expired or non-transferable\voided warranty systems and dubious return policies.
If you can, go for a new one, that's my opinion. But carefully spec it - for normal use, i3/5 or equivalent is more than enough. Two mechanical disks can give more space than a single ssd for the same money. Mrk
Or even 3 hard drives. But they won't give near the performance. Plus they will consume more energy, generate more heat, and most likely fail long before a SSD will. Admittedly, we are still likely talking years but then if talking years, the energy savings, increased productivity, and shear enjoyment of SSDs add up too. If budgets allow for strategic (long term) purchases, investing more today can pay off over the long run.
True, but if the person has monetary considerations NOW, they may not have the luxury to invest in high-quality expensive stuff. As to performance, for most desktop use cases, mechanical disks (if they have decent speed and sufficient cache) are good enough. Mrk
If "good enough" was a driving factor for most consumers of today's consumer electronics, nobody would have big screen TVs. We all would still be using 15" or maybe 19" monitors on our computers that had single core processors and 512MB of RAM. And our cell phones would be used for... I forget what they are called... . Oh yeah! Phone calls!
If you're past "I spent MONEY on this bad boy, die of jealousy," one can rummage around the bargains online from the manufacturer of one's choice. Maybe calling and asking a rep for something that isn't advertised? The "newer" the better, with at least some fragment of warranty. One can get a mid spec machine with HDD and get a small capacity SSD at a later time. Can you not haggle in some cases? I know it's possible sometimes at retailer Micro Center but that could be a regional thing. I'd be extremely careful with floor models, they may be cheaper and with some warranty left but you don't know what's been done to them. Like for example, in my urban area, you could walk into a Best Buy at any time and there would be members of the homeless community playing with all the good ones. Stuff like that.
Nah! Not true. I may buy that for TVs, but anybody who uses those little gray cells between their ears knows that the best speakers are not the biggest. There's no way tiny speakers can have full "audiophile quality" (though they are getting pretty close). But some of the best speakers in the world have been in the "bookshelf" size category, starting way back with the AR-3, and Advent speakers. That said, if you want full range and dispersion at any volume with virtually 0.00% distortion, and are willing to pay $130,000 for a pair, you will need large, floor standing speakers. As for the wanting the best cell phone, why not? In fact, most people, male or female, for most purchases, want the "best" they can buy for their money. Yeah right! I realize what people think is a "a lot of money" is totally relevant to each individual. My grandson thinks $20 is a lot of money. But when it comes to getting paid for the job you do and responsibilities you have, it is clear you don't have a clue about the pay scales in the DoD. No one in the military ever makes "a lot of money". They may get a good job after they get out (depending on their training and experience), and, depending on their rank, can make a "comfortable" living while in, but that's it. As seen here, the maximum pay for an O-10 (4-Star General or Admiral) is capped at $15,583.20 per month. That's just $186,998.40 a year for someone who is responsible for the lives of perhaps 100,000 people under their command, and perhaps several $Billion worth of resources! An exec at a major company would be making $Millions in salary and $Millions more in bonuses and not be responsible the lives of one of their employees. Note an O-6 (Navy Captain or AF, Army or Marine Colonel) with 20 years in, the commander of perhaps the $4.5 Billion Gerald R Ford aircraft carrier and its crew of 5,000, or the commander of a major military base only makes $120,000 per year. That's chump change compared to civilian equivalents. And understand most officers who stay for 20 years don't make it past 0-5 (Navy Commander or AF, Army, or Marine Lt. Col). And of course, if you don't have a 4-year degree when you join, you will not be a commissioned officer, but rather an enlisted troop and of course, make a lot less money yet. Even civilian employees of the DoD don't get paid well with the top GS-15 Step 10 making just $134,776 per year. Nobody works for the government for the money. No way. Sorry, but you have no clue. Now, I commend anyone who chooses to serve their country. Frankly, I wish everyone was required to serve their country or local community in some fashion so everyone would understand the sacrifices those who have served (and their families too) have made. Because clearly, there is a lot of ignorance out there. How do I know this stuff? Well, if you understood what that AFE7Ret after my name in my sig meant, then maybe you would understand. In the meantime, I would urge you to do a little homework before talking about things you know nothing about. In this case, you owe that to those who volunteered to serve their country to protect your freedoms who never came home, or did not come home in one piece, and to everyone else (and their families) who supported them.
I am sorry Bill I am not as old as you but pretty close and most of my life as been based on electronics and security but you mentioned gray matter. Well I know I have at least one left. Yes I have looked at your impressive BIO. I am only saying I do know of a person that worked for the DOD that did pretty well. After a stint in Afghanistan that person was able to pay off all their collage dues . And I am sure you know how high they are today. Not something most collage grads can do today. this all came from a small spark I planted when that person was 12 years old. Programming in Visual Basic. And so Mr Bill please don't accuse me of having no clue. Oh yes and I am fully aware that not only Nations States , Gov agencies, Hackers, and everybody in-between frequent this site but I have been here a very long time. When I went to Electronics school. 82 started and only 39 of us finished. I feel pretty good about that. Of those 39 the FBI recruited 22. I could not go because of my wife did not to move. Not sure how many the CIA recruited. never heard. Also there was a Wind generation company in AZ that recruited a few. Also had a chance to work at an Air force base in Germany . Had all the paperwork done and was accepted. Again wife would not agree. Then she left me. This is way more info anybody else would share here but at our age I don't care. P. S Mr. Bill I do respect you so don't get me wrong here. Thanks
New twist Mrk's comment noted. Desire MB with at least 2 pcie x 16 slots. PCIE 2.0 is fine. No monitor! Using two GTX 1070 gpu CPU does not have to be real strong Case Cooling matters This will be a single function machine designed for distributed computing project. What refurb, should I look for MB CPU combo. I would add the 1070's & new PSU later
This is where you don't understand what is happening. When serving in a designated combat zone, several things happen. (1) You live in quarters provided by the service. (2) You eat in mess halls provided by the service and you get an extra allowance for subsistence (food) to pay for that food. (3) You get extra combat pay. (4) If you have a family at home, you get a separation allowance. And (5) most significantly your pay while serving in that combat zone is not taxed. If you choose to "re-up" while over seas, you typically get a very significant re-up bonus that also is not taxed. For that short period of time, you can make a lot of money that can use to pay off debts - if you make it home. But the rest of your career, you are not making that kind of money, nor are you doing that job to become wealthy. If that person you refer to was civilian, he likely was a civilian contractor working for a company contracted by the DoD. That is a totally different scenario than being a DoD employee (active military or government service -GS employee). Now this is all WAY off topic. My apologies to TheKid7 for my part in that.
