Deep Freeze Experiences

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by LockBox, Dec 29, 2004.

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  1. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    Search on Security Tracker, you will find that there are a few bugs.. I'm at work right now and don't have time to provide links, but it's easy enough to find yourself :)
     
  2. bjmp24

    bjmp24 Registered Member

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    So.. basically freezeX is optional?
     
  3. Ailric

    Ailric Guest

    This is a very interesting thread. It still surprises me the amount of fear people have when told of something new/revolutionary. I like the idea of DeepFreeze and I will look into it more.

    I first became interested in safety net backup type programs with WindowsME and System Restore. I liked the fact that you could roll back the computer to a time when the computer was still running. It was imperfect at best, but was better than nothing. I found a program called Powerquest Second Chance. This was a much more polished and robust version of System Restore, I used it for years with no problems.

    When switching to WindowsXP I was determined to find a good safety net, something better than System Restore. GoBack! is great but it constantly works in the background accessing the hard disk. I also heard of Raxco's First Defense and it sounds good but I decided to go with Farstone's RestoreIT! It makes a separate partition and the entire system can be saved as well as incremential updates to the system. Don't like a program you just intalled? RestoreIT! Want your system just the way you firrst installed it with drivers, updates and all? RestoreIT!

    My experience with DeepFreeze is limited. I was working as a computer assistant for my local employment office and wondered, who takes care of all of these computers? Why aren't they all messed up? DeepFreeze. Every computer worked flawlessly. No viruses. No trojans. Nothing. Just perfect working computers. In the words of Seinfeld, it was "breathtaking". :D

    Imaging while impractical for everyday use, it still has it's place. Imagine home users backing up 40gb of information every day? 9 DVD's? A box of CD's?

    I have seen the future and the future is DeepFreeze (and similar programs).
    But one thing concerns me. I was wondering how you can keep from losing:

    *Daily email
    *Added favorites
    *Windows updates
    *Virus updates

    ...and any other daily updates.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2005
  4. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    That might be a problem using DeepFreeze (I'm not sure, I don't use it) but it's not a problem (with the exception of "Daily Email" ) when using ShadowUser. The ShadowStor people recommend leaving a copy of the email on the server for two or three days - this works fine on a home PC - so that if there're emails you want kept, you can simply get it off the server again when you're not in ShadowMode. I preview all my stuff with MailWasher on the server, anyway, so this isn't really an issue - I know when I go back out of SM, the mail I wanted will still be there - and the stuff I didn't will still be gone.

    Since everything I've got is on my "C" drive (which is a really terrible way to do things - I wouldn't recommend that to anyone), I simply placed all the folders I wanted "Excluded" into SU's "Exclusion List". These consist of all the folders for my defensive programs, so that I can update them while in SM (and have the changes "stick").

    I've never tried doing a Windows Update in ShadowMode, although there have been instances where that really would have been the intelligent thing to do, given M$'s proclivity for screwing things up in a major way with some of their more disasterous "fixes" - especially the un-installable ones.

    I imagine it could be done, though, by finding out if the "patch" or fix was actually doing its' job correctly, then coming out of ShadowMode and re-getting it (the same applies to DF).

    Or, you could simply commit the whole session to disk (although that could be risky if you picked up something "extra" along the way). You can do that with SU.

    The important thing to remember here is that you absolutely must come out of either SM or the "Frozen" state on a regular basis on a SOHO computer - you're defeating the purpose of having a "clean" state if you don't return to it regularly - and since you have to anyway, that's the time to do all the things that are easier to do while not in SM or "frozen".

    bjmp24 - Yes, FreezeX is a completely separate program which you must purchase separately from DeepFreeze (at least in regard to the "non-profit" versions). That would kick your initial investment up to around $50 for both programs. Pete
     
  5. agent7x

    agent7x Guest

    I have the newer version of GoBack 4.0 (got it with NSW) and it's fantastic! It's not like it used to be. It now has additional new features, along with it's regular go back abilities, that make it very similar to Deep Freeze in some ways.

    It's auto revert feature allows you to revert the drive back to a previous state just like Deep Freeze at every restart.

    Plus some other very nice features, like it's "safe try mode" that allows you to test new programs, that make it superior to Deep Freeze in my opinion.

    Also allows you to restore just the files or folders you need, or an entire drive.

    I'm still learning how to use it, but so far it seems like an excellent program. Much more to this version than older versions. Very easy to use and seems very much aimed at the home user too. Doesn't seem to slow my system one bit. It's definitely better than the older versions and far more flexible.
     
  6. Auron

    Auron Registered Member

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    Deep Freeze Rocks¡

    I have been using Deep Freeze for quite some time and I can say it has been the best experience ever since I configured my computer to work with it, I have 2 hardrives and I have configured them like this: c windows partition d program files partition e temp partition and f that's my big partition where I have my documents, opera (bookmarks, wand logins etc). I only freeze c and d and I haven't had any problems, plus I have an image of my C partition so should a system disaster occur I can recover in about 3 minutes because I only have to restore the C partition program files remains untouched. I don't use an antivirus nor a firewall and I haven't needed them for more than a year, besides I can make all kinds of changes and experiment with windows settings to the max without worrying something will go wrong. My computer stays real fast (786MB of RAM) and no system resources are leaked or wasted in antivirus "protection".

    If there are any other users taking advantage of deep freeze please post it.
     
  7. jag1967

    jag1967 Registered Member

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    Hi Auron

    I can't comment on DF (as haven't tried it yet), but your set up looks interesting. Though I personally wouldn't forgo my security apps, esp as my background apps are fairly lean, eg nod32, LnS f/w...
    I would have thought a fw is essential, unless u have a h/w router, but even then you wouldn't know if a rougue/trojan app is connecting to the net

    Sorry if a bit OT & newbie, but in terms of installing prog files on a separate partition (d) from the OS (c), does this lead to any potential problems? Is there something specific you would have take into account or be aware of when doing this. (Been thinking of doing this for a while)

    Also, when installing s/w which adds to the registry, I'm assuming this gets written to the c drive? And does application data get written to c or d?
    Just wondering if when you do recover the c drive, how everything works in relation to the prog files on d drive

    thanks
    jag
     
  8. Auron

    Auron Registered Member

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    Yes, when I install software the registry settings go to my c drive and the program files themselves go to d, I have to do this in the thawed mode, then if I create a backup of my C drive and have to use it the registry settings on c will match the way things are set up on D because they were frozen thus protected all the time. As of how to do this you just have to change the program files path on windows registry and all new apps will go to that partition by default. Unfortunately when I have tried to change the application data path in windows registry for some reason it seems to revert back to it's original configuration but changing this would allow even further dynamic changes on settings that take a boot to change at times.

    I have a router and it has a built in firewall, my browsing experience has been the best with opera installed on my D program files and the opera.ini file with all it's settings on a thawed drive, that way I get all the flexibility I need to add new bookmarks or wand logins and at the same time keep Opera protected from any potencial problems.

    When I have restored my C drive from an image (3 minutes or less with Norton Ghost) everything stays the way it was because there is concordance between C and D.

    Hope that helps.
    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  9. Harsh Shah

    Harsh Shah Guest

    Hi, I have a small problem with deep freeze, if anyone is able to suggest a solution, I will appreciate it.
    I have started using deep freeze since 4-5 months, and it works amazing. But recently i bought an external hard drive, and reinstalled deep freeze with the option that it _should not_ freeze the external hdd. however, it still freezes the external hdd. I have tried to reinstall deep freeze several time with different options. But right now the only working solution is to reboot in thawed mode, transfer my backup to external hdd, and then reboot in frozen state.

    is there any simpler way?
    Thanks,
    Harsh
     
  10. Auron

    Auron Registered Member

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    Hi Harsh, I once had a similar problem with Deep Freeze, what version are you using? If you are using 5.2 and creating your own installer try to check the frozen drives section. Otherwise you can contact faronics directly.

    By the way just a question I assume you don't use an antivirus right?
     
  11. The problem....which has'nt realy been answered...is say... when in the "frozen
    state".. you become infected...true the next reboot you won't be....but when
    you think you're so protected....you do your online banking ...or pay your
    credit card bills......ain't you sold the ranch?... THE DAMAGE WILL BE DONE!!!!
     
  12. waydorr

    waydorr Guest

    deep freeze is crap it takes all the fun out but i can bet u backdating the system will kill deepfreeze
     
  13. wahzoo

    wahzoo Guest

    No it wont. Reboot to remove all traces of previous surfing, THEN do your online banking from a clean system. When you're done, reboot to clear out history of banking transactions. Then go surf whatever again.

    What hasn't been made clear is the need to protect files on **thawed** drives from (re)infecting the **frozen** drive. This is one reason FreezeX was developed. But I suggest to use PG or SSM instead. For now, lol.
     
  14. wahzoo

    wahzoo Guest

    You must have configured Professional version to allow such things. In DF Standard version "You do not have the proper priviledge level to change the System Time."

    The above quote is true - unless you have a bootdisk! In that case you can work a small wonder by resizing the boot partition! :D
     
  15. The point I was trying to make.....who knows when a zero day exploit is going
    to happen....it just may happen after you make a fresh reboot...and when
    going to your online banking and the sign-in procedure

    Faronics recomends using an anti-virus....hence things can happen.

    I still dont believe it's fool proof....and to put total trust in it...without back-up security apts....seems foolish to me. So then you have the cost of
    all your apts....plus cost of Deep Freeze. I admit it would be great for
    schools, libraries, internet cafes....but for the average home user it is
    a huge pain in the gluteus maximus....They should make a special home
    addition...So if you have younger kids or teenagers. they can play all they
    want...and you have still have your regular pc...for every day chores. without
    a flashing RED X....very irritating. and without jumping thru hoops to do
    anything



    P.S. you can crash it ....I found out the hard way and had to do a reformat

    ugh ugh ugh

    P.P.S. Shadow user seems more user friendly for the average Joe Doaks
     
  16. Auron

    Auron Registered Member

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    Shadow user isn't even comparable to Deep Freeze. DF uses a kernell mode driver thus it can't be exploited or crashed unless you change your CMOS configuration, and it's not that hard to configure one's machine to have documents and other important folders on thawed partitions. Having a hardware firewall solves my security issues and doesn't waste any RAM.
    The only product remotely comparable is Clean Slate, but after installing it CS can take 10 minutes for each boot. and leaving thawed parts on the same partition is not a good idea.
     
  17. The point I was trying to make.....who knows when a zero day exploit is going
    to happen....it just may happen after you make a fresh reboot...and when
    going to your online banking and the sign-in procedure


    You still havent answered this
     
  18. Read what is say......Just dont defend the product.

    The object of this thread was to discuss the pros and cons of DF

    I did not say they were in the same league...just mentioned shadow user
    was far more user friendly...for an average family....


    and yes DF crashed my system....dont tell me it can't

    If you care to ask ....I can tell you with hotmail addy..so not to give
    the junior hackers an idea how to do it
     
  19. securityuser

    securityuser Guest

    I'll answer it. I am following this thread and several people have already said that you run FreezeX, PG or SSM to protect against ZDE. Any one of these would seem to be perfect to run with Deep Freeze.
     
  20. wahzoo

    wahzoo Guest

     
  21. Harsh Shah

    Harsh Shah Guest


    Thanks Auron, yes I am using 5.2, and creating my own installer. I use Norton AV 2004. I have two partitions in my laptop hdd c & d, and one external drive f. During installation i check only c:\ and unceck d: and f: drives. I'm not sure whether i can change this option after installing. so according to your suggestion i uninstalled and then reinstalled with the said options, however, the problem remains.

    I emailed faronics, but they don't provide support on trial version.
     
  22. securityuser

    securityuser Guest

    I just looked up on the deep freeze site and it says clearly to only image thawed partitions or drives, never image a frozen partition. I will say this about the company, and that's that they have one hell of a good support site, it is loaded. If only more would take notice and offer that kind of online support. BTW, I just read where Gerard posted the other day and said he didn't have any time schedule. What's the problem Pete? The discussion can go on and it seems to be just fine. Let the guy gather his information and we'll see what comes out! I have to admit to being a little interested in this deep freeze.
     
  23. 1st A question.......would all advocates for or against DF .....have just
    1 apt for your total security.....such as Freeze-X, Process guard or SSMo_O?

    Well that is basicly .....all you would have...1 apt to keep your system secure
    I'm sure that the makers of Process Guard would not say that is all you need

    When you are on line Frozen or not Frozen...your machine can catch a "bug"
    As many of you know.....it just takes a second. So even with a fresh reboot,
    you would be taking a risk...hoping you to make it to your on-line
    banking, paypal etc...hoping you would'nt be infected... all your
    trust in PG or Freeze X. That is really a lot to assume.

    I see no where at Faronics page ......that Freeze X stops all Malware.
    When they put it writing...that they would guarantee all my loses
    Then maybe....just maybe ..... I'd Be a "TRUE BELIEVER", or maybe loses
    up to $500.00 like the reward they offer hackers.

    Then all i have to do....either get my friends to download all
    sorts of antispyware...AT free demos, make sure my machine is SUPER-DUPER
    clean, buy Freeze X CD. via phone. install....and for 25 bucks will be all I have
    to spend for security...with optional Deep Freeze or Shadowuser..maybe free
    demo of PG...Id be set for total on-line security for 25-50 bucks then I'll be
    safe to face the perils of the internet....with a very minimal investment
     
  24. Auron

    Auron Registered Member

    Joined:
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    Deep Freeze doesn't need any companions, as a matter of fact the use of an antivirus is totally irrelevant unless you get to map your AppData folder from the registry to a different location (when you do that windows automatically reverts it to the original settings) because that's where most antivirus updates are stored not the program files path. As for Freeze X I haven't tried that one but DF is rock solid. Something else provided by software like DF is the freedom to install anything anytime, modifiying the registry, etc. As a user I think that let's you get to know your computer a lot more that being afraid of editting the registry or backing it up every time you do it.

    Being safe online isn't Deep Freeze's responsibility, for that I use Ghostsurf 2K 5 which hides my real ip address using annonymous hubs and encrypts sent and received data at a 128 SSL level.
     
  25. Auron.....Yes i know when you reboot...your machine is "fresh"
    but it can get infected.....both thawed and unthawed....do you think you are
    protected theno_O? If you dont use your p.c. for business, or do not do any
    sort of online banking or paypal.....then you are perfectly fine.


    Gerand at the start of this thread seemed to think all the protection you needed
    was from DF and Freeze X. He wanted the pros and cons for an article to get
    ideas....I myself think his idea is flawed...in its present state...mainly the using
    of Freeze X for total protection.
     
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