Cylance for Home and SMB via Malware Managed - Testing

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by malwaredan, May 16, 2016.

  1. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    First, I want to thank everyone who has been discussing the pros and cons of Cylance PROTECT.

    Second, for the number of people who purchased this weekend and "tested", we want to thank you as well. It performed every bit as successfully as we thought it would, though our alerting systems went through the roof on the back-end letting us know stuff was found.

    I am co-founder of the company and an grateful for everyone's opinions and efforts. This is a Managed Subscription so you won't get full control of the console but you will get visibility into what is happening on your system and its status.

    There will always be folks who want to speak ill of a product, regardless of what it is. Perhaps because of bias, ignorance or other reasons and that is cool. It is what makes our world great; everyone gets a say.

    However, the proof is in the pudding. I have personally managed 6000 endpoints for two years now (globally) and over 300 million files and not had a single miss. Maybe I am luck or maybe the solution is that good. I will put it up against any existing product any day of the week and bet my paycheck on it. Period.

    Either way, you can either try it for yourself and see or not. I promise to respect your opinions either way.

    Thanks again to everyone.

    Dan Gimenez
    Malware Managed
     
  2. Yash Khan

    Yash Khan Registered Member

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    Why no trial version?

    Why no user control?
     
  3. Thankful

    Thankful Savings Monitor

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    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  4. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    So this brings up some good points which I will try to address. Please keep in mind that I mean no disrespect to anyone so hear me out or don't.

    Why no trial version?
    1. We are business and our job is to make money. Hopefully selling a solution that makes people lives better; that is the idea anyway.
    2. We have 20-to-1 ratio so far of people purchasing versus asking for evaluations.
    3. So far, of the limited evaluations we have allowed, ZERO have purchased so far. ZERO.
    4. With an evaluation, there is no skin in the game. We cannot guarantee a review, a purchase, nothing. Since we are an MSSP, the endpoints still cost money even if the consumer is not paying for it.
    5. So in a nutshell, the highest probability is that we get the following: No purchase, no review and are out our cost per endpoint.
    6. We also have to be weary of the jackwods that want to eval it, reverse engineer it and give it to a competitor
    7. We spent a lot of time this weekend working with forum members who purchased the tool to run it to ground. How many folks are going to do that for "evals" on a regular basis?
    8. From a numbers perspective, we had 7 purchases between Saturday morning and Monday morning, 1 eval request and 1 abandoned cart. All of them came from this message board.
    9. The reality is they have well over one million endpoints deployed at corporations around the world so if it were not solid, I believe it would come out pretty quick in the wash.
    From a business perspective it is hard to justify why an evaluation makes sense.

    Why no User Control?
    1. We don't make the software and at this point, the only way you can even get a chance to look at it, even if in a limited way, is through us.
    2. The reality is that there is no consumer version available from the vendor at this point.
    3. Will there be? I am sure at some point because it is strong market.
    4. We have to work with what we have and the software is solid enough that I am comfortable that we will do quite well with 80% of the population who is not looking to be a malware expert. They just want to do their job, browse the Internet ,etc. and be free of ransomware.


    3rd-Party evaluations:
    Do you base purchasing decisions on Gartner Magic Quadrants? Most technical folks do not because it has all become suspect. Tests are rigged for desired outcomes on both sides of the fence and what has been paid out.
    I cannot speak to the test your reference, the results or the people behind it and I really don't care. I AM NOT SAYING THIS TEST IS RIGGED. I DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ONE. I am making a general observation based on my experience working within a lot of IT fields in corporations, consulting firms and small business.

    Here is what I do care about.
    300,000,000 files analyzed 108 false positives on 6000 endpoints. That is my criteria. Did we get their overnight? Of course not. Early math models had more false positives but they are honed in now.
    Again, I will put this tool up against any technology out there or piece of malware any day. Maybe you have something that will be missed and I will accept it, but I have enough experience and confidence to put my chips on the table and bet you won't.
    Take it with a grain of salt, say I am liar, laugh in my face. Doesn't really matter.
    I am not going to convince you, if you are of that mindset, regardless of what I do so I focus on those people that will listen openly and have a higher probability of purchase.

    Now for the "skin in the game". I have been told that testers on this board are outstanding (and what I have witnessed so far holds that to be true) so I am willing to put some skin in as long as we have reciprocity
    I will give 5 eval licenses out with a 7 day expiration under the following conditions
    1. The testing results and methodology are posted to this forum for everyone to see
    2. You agree to be identified as a evaluation candidate under this thread.
    3. You agree to write a review, good or bad, at the end of the 7 day eval period on our site and be genuine about it and open to discussion about your results.
    4. Or you purchase the product at the end of the period.
    5. You are willing to let me call you out on this board if you don't deliver according to terms
    6. Conversely, if I don't deliver according to terms you can call me out
    It goes to the first 5 people who email me at sales@malwaremanaged.com, with the conditions in the email.
    Like I said before I don't really need to do this, we are making plenty of sales without evaluations but I do like a good challenge.
     
  5. SHvFl

    SHvFl Registered Member

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    @malwaredan
    First welcome to the forum and hope you find some use to it.
    Second i must thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed answer. I agree with most of the stuff you said except probably one but that's fine we can't agree on all.
    Just one suggestion if you care. Give me a way to compare the different versions of the product and list pricing. I understand you aim at the enterprise that they will contact you and talk about this 2 stuff but you might want to consider it if possible for the average consumer. I assume i didn't miss it and you can do this 2 but if that is the case i apologize.

    EDIT: It seems the video Cylance® vs. Kaspersky is missing/dead.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  6. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    SHvFI,

    Thank you for the welcome aboard. Seems to be a lot of sharp people here so that is cool.

    Unfortunately, I cannot give out pricing over message boards. I can tell you that there is no true consumer version so there are no pricing models yet. Nor or their different versions.
    The product you can buy off the site at www.malwaremanaged.com is the same one that corporations would get. The only difference is what the product can do based on settings in the console and the fact that you don't get to manage anything yourself. Like I said before , that scenario may not be as valuable for the advanced user that is on this board, but for a lot of folks out there it will be a no-brainer. The bar is set pretty low already with their expectations from AV products.
    I know that is vague so hopefully there some value in it.

    Also, thanks for the heads up. We will fix the video.
     
  7. VoodooShield

    VoodooShield Developer

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    Welcome to Wilders Dan and Joel from MalwareManaged! Cylance PROTECT did great over the weekend, I was highly impressed! I have to admit, I was a little skeptical before I had the chance to try your software, only because I know from experience how difficult it is to get the machine learning models "just right", especially when performing a full system scan with pure Ai. Keep up the great work!
     
  8. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    Is there a version for home use or it is just focused on business?
     
  9. NormanF

    NormanF Registered Member

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    Too expensive. I think $25-$40 is more reasonable for an annual license anti-virus product. If you want to keep it at $60, it makes more sense as a suite with a lifetime license than as a standalone product.

    More value from the consumer point of view.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  10. NormanF

    NormanF Registered Member

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    Same product for endpoint business use sold to home consumers.

    A consumer version would come on two levels. Free with basic anti-virus features and a Premium for power users who want more things that needs money to be developed.

    Its not easy to create a new AV product. We can wish Malware Managed success and hope they and Cylance can come up with something more affordable for the market.
     
  11. Nightwalker

    Nightwalker Registered Member

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    Hi Dan, welcome to Wilders Security forum, your presence here will sure be appreciated.

    Btw, is your product USA market only or worldwide?

    I am very curious about Cylance PROTECT and I hope it will be cheaper and worldwide available soon :D
     
  12. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    Thanks for the warm welcomes. The product is available to home users, at 60.00, via our website. This is the only option for home users at this point if they wish to have this technology.

    It is available for purchase anywhere in the world and in fact we have had a number of global purchases.

    I am sorry that some feel it is too expensive. We believe the price point is right based on the sales so far and the capabilities given. If not, there are a lot of other options out there and we hope you have great success with them.
     
  13. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Without a trial... I will.

    Thanks.
     
  14. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    i will put my opinion in red.


    So basically , we have high price, no trial and no control over anything about it; means if my system has any issue or conflict with your soft, i'm done and can't do anything by myself?
    I don't believe people (and even less serious IT admins or technician) would handover the control of their systems to someone else unless they are total beginners.

    My main point is how i can trust a product if i cant test it myself? set it to my taste, then throw some personal malwares against it to see if it fit my requirements?

    With your actual marketing model it is impossible, i have to potentially bet my money on what you claim, without be able to do a real assessment based on my own specific system prior the purchase.

    Now it depend if you want be just a corporate product or expend your reach to home users? if just for corporations then you have nothing to change. However if you plan to go on home users market, then you are all wrong. Just my opinion.

    Anyway thanks for your replies and explanations.



     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  15. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    When the free version for home users will be available?
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re REad the thread. There isn't any free version. Only option for home users is to pay the $60 a year.
     
  17. PaleDark

    PaleDark Registered Member

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    Straight up $60.00 and no trial?

    What if my system is not compatible with your product after I purchase it? Will I get screw up? Will I even get refund?

    Somehow you already mentioned, limited evaluation. My thoughts are if I'm trying something not at optimal performance, I have no idea how it will impact my system. Hence it's totally understandable if I'm not willing to buy without knowing what's the true potential impact to my system.

    As a home user, it is fairly common to have the "feel" of that item even before you purchase it. Majority households do. That's normal since home-user don't spend on things they're not familiar with.

    Just my opinion based on what I felt from your clarification.
     
  18. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    All,
    Thank you for your candid responses and I do get what you are saying. Much of it has merit and I don't disagree with you conceptually.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I totally agree with the others. I would have to test and see myself, before I would spend that money. So clearly we aren't your market, which means you being here doesn't make much sense.
     
  20. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    So you are saying I am not welcome because we disagree Peter2150? That hardly seems in the spirit of all working towards the same goal.

    To be fair, I was not coming after this "market" to begin with. It came to us and we are not forcing anyone to purchase but don't be angry because we have a differing view.
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Of course I am not saying your aren't welcome. But what is the same goal? How can we work together where we can't test the software. Look around this forum, and notice how vendors make their software available so we can test and give feedback. So let me ask. What is the goal and what can be accomplished?
     
  22. malwaredan

    malwaredan Registered Member

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    Agreed. This is probably not a place for me to hang out but such is life.

    I want to thank everyone who purchased the software, without hesitation, tested and gave feedback to us. We are here if you need us.

    Good luck to everyone else too.
     
  23. digmor crusher

    digmor crusher Registered Member

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    malwaredan, numerous security softs have been tested, reviewed, scrutinized on this forum, all of them have been improved because of it. If your company will not allow the members here to do that without paying , then yes, you are in the wrong place, however its your loss. There is nowhere and I repeat, nowhere, where there is a better place for any security product to be tested. And you are making a mistake by not allowing the public to try a free trial for anyone who wants to test your product, you seem to have a good product, but I and many like me would not fork over the cash without at least seeing A) if it works on my computer and B) if it does what it says its supposes to do. Thats what free trials are for, most security softs have them, you want us to buy the car without taking a test drive. My 2 cents.
     
  24. cruelsister

    cruelsister Registered Member

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    Actually there might be a better place to test software...
     
  25. VoodooShield

    VoodooShield Developer

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    I was going to try to stay out of this as much as possible, but I think since I am the one who introduced Dan and Joel to wilders, and since I can see both sides, I think this will make a lot of sense, and hopefully will help. I am certainly not here to choose sides, and hopefully everyone can work something out so that the wilder’s users have cool software to run and MM will benefit greatly from your expertise and input.

    First, Cylance is great software, no question, but it really does need a gui that is a lot more built out then what it is currently… I am assuming that Dan and Joel feel this way as well.

    It is no exaggeration to say that the users at wilders are truly some of the best software testers in the world, which is why I recommended MM get involved at wilders. And honestly, I would imagine that if the seasoned beta testers on wilders were to have a difficult time properly managing the software due to lack of features and user-friendliness, I would imagine that it would be even more difficult for home or smb customers. I am not saying that this is the case, I am just saying that this is what everyone is assuming since they have not had a chance to try the software.

    But I think what we are forgetting is that since Dan and Joel are not the developers of the software, they do not have the ability to update the software and make really cool changes that you guys would be recommending to them… they are limited by what Cylance (the actual developers of the software) asks or requires them to do, and limited by the changes that Cylance is willing to make. See, I am lucky since I can just make changes to the software and hand out free licenses to anyone at any time, and it does not affect me one way or the other… but from what I understand, they have to pay something for the licenses that they sell or give a way. So if I were in their shoes, I would not be able to buy everyone a license either.

    My point is this… maybe everyone can find a happy medium. Maybe MM can provide licenses at a discount or whatever, and in return, they will receive great feedback from the wilders guys. Now, they will not be able to implement the changes that you suggest, but I imagine that they can send the recommended changes to Cylance to see if they are willing to implement the changes.

    I warned Dan that things can get a little heated at times at wilders, but that the vast majority of the time, users have great intentions and are just trying to help. It is just that when only dealing with text (and not voice or whatever), misunderstandings happen.

    Anyway, that is all I am going to say about this ;). Keep up the great work MM, and I hope everyone figures out something that is mutually beneficial for everyone. Thank you!
     
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