Cost cutting.

Discussion in 'hardware' started by pugmug, Feb 14, 2009.

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  1. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    My son lives beside me and wants to do away with his internet service to save money.He has a hardwired ethernet router.What equipment would he need to pickup my wireless signal using his ethernet router?Thanks for any help you can give.
     
  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Please define what you mean when you say he lives by "beside you". Please understand that if his residence is considered a different domicile from yours, his tapping into your Internet connection is stealing, is called "theft of services" and is certainly a crime, punishable by stiff fines and possible prison time. This would be the same as stealing TV cable, electricity, etc. from your neighbor. And with you being aware of this theft, in fact, with you facilitating this theft, you most likely would be charged with "conspiracy to commit theft of services" - a felony, an even greater offense in some places than the actual theft! And I assure you, if (when) the Internet provider finds out, they WILL press charges; it is just not worth it. If your son (or one of his friends using his computer) does something illegal (like download songs without paying for them) the authorities will come after YOU! So if the living arrangements are how it appears with first read of your post, I recommend you tell your son if he wants to use your Internet connection, he can come over to your house, take out the trash and any other chores you have, then he can use your connection from within your house.

    So please come back with specifics of the housing arrangement so we can determine if we can help you first (we don't help people steal), then we can go from there.
     
  3. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    Wow it got deep.I have a wireless LAN.My son had a wired LAN.He lives in a apt over my workshop 100 feet away from my house and has 2 computers.One for important things the other for not so important things,all hard wired.He now needs to save his money for school.I own and live on a large farm with the nearest neighbor 3 miles away.How am I not legal in setting up my own hotspot to feed my property?Can anyone help without all the legal stuff?P.S. not looking for USB adaptors, pci wifi cards but ethernet only for his hardwired router to pickup my signal.Bridge,switch,what?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yeah! It can - quickly!
    That is legal, but note your "lives beside me" in your opening post did not make it clear you were talking about your own property. Sadly, all too often, folks come to these forums seeking help to commit crimes (stealing Internet access, downloading songs, cracking so-called forgotten passwords, etc.). We have no way of knowing by your username that you are honest or not; we have to go by the information you provide us - which APPEARS to suggest he lives in a different residence, next door.

    Let's make sure we are on the same page here. Your son is 100 feet away in a different building. You connect to the Internet via a wireless connection. How? Do you have a wireless router? You want him to be able to connect with his Ethernet router to your Internet connection, and you only want to use Ethernet. Understand that Ethernet is wired so that will require him to run a 100 foot length of CAT5e or CAT6 cable from your router in your house to his router in his apartment. From there, he can connect his computers via Ethernet to his Ethernet router, and use your Internet connection - in theory. But note 100 feet is a long run, and signal attenuation will be high, and may degrade performance on his end.

    Alternatively, he will need to buy some sort of wireless adapters for both of his computers (typically USB, PCI, or PC Cards for notebooks). BUT 100 feet is a long ways for wireless too and his speed and reliability may not be too good, if connection is possible at all. Much will depend on the type (802.11g, 802.11n, etc.) and quality of your wireless network.

    "Wireless range extenders" like one of these is another possibility, and may be your only viable option, other than him moving back in the house, and within range of good wireless signal strength.

    The good news is being on a farm, you should not have other wireless networks or many other electronic devices that regularly, negatively, impact wireless network performance and effective range of wireless networks in congested RF (radio frequency) areas in cities.
     
  5. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    We had cable run to his apt which he can no longer afford and which I do not want anymore trenches dug on my land due to sinking and my animals being hurt.As ethernet is 328 ft. standard, 100 ft is not the problem.Can you answer my question without going round and round it?I get my wireless using a dish but he at the time of running cable wanted speed.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Not when important facts are missing, or you don't answer my questions. I am not trying to be difficult, but you are not asking a simple question, and there is no single simple answer. I asked,
    You said you connect via wireless to the Internet by satellite dish, but that is not likely without having some other network device (piece of hardware) between your computer, and the "gateway", your dish receiver. If none, then your dish "box" is an "integrated" device that combines the gateway, router, WAP (wireless access point) and maybe a 4-port switch device in one box. With the known facts being vague, we cannot answer without going round and round with vague, but possible solutions. Right now, I agree that wireless is the best bet, so I am sticking with my range expander solution, until given more information. But understand wireless is not Ethernet so by you stating it must go Ethernet, that means there must be wires running somewhere.

    While, again, in theory, the maximum length is about 328feet (the standard says 100m), in practice, it is not always so - ESPECIALLY between buildings, which have different paths to ground (Earth) and therefore different "ground potentials" - resistance to "ground" (Earth).
     
  7. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    All I am looking for is a wireless adaptor with a ethernet connection to plug into his wired ethernet router so he can pickup my wireless signal.That is the answer I am looking for,nothing more.
     
  8. Eliot

    Eliot Registered Member

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    You just need to get a wireless adapter for his pc. Install that and set up to match your wireless settings. He can then get online. Anything else is a waste of time.
     
  9. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    The question is not being answered, member I will look into your post i/m,hope it helps me and thanks,
     
  10. Eliot

    Eliot Registered Member

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    You can buy a wireless access point and let it pick up your signal, take the output and plug that into the current wired router. That answers your question. Hope that helps.

    I guess removing his router is not an option? You would not need it if you add a wireless access point and just plug his pc into the access point.
     
  11. pugmug

    pugmug Registered Member

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    That may help me also and thank you.
     
  12. Eliot

    Eliot Registered Member

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    Your welcome.
     
  13. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Whoa! You are talking about using a SECOND WAP as a relay or repeater. Not all WAPs or routers allow that, nor is setting up a wireless relay so simple for folks not comfortable with that technology, but still concerned about security.

    @pugmeg - I understand your frustration, but your questions are being answered. But without specific facts, a specific answer is not possible. This is very technical stuff, with new foreign sounding terminology coming all the time - that makes it difficult even for those working it every day. I don't want to lead you astray any more than you want the wrong answer.

    Your best solution did answer your question and that is to buy network adapters, one for each of his computers, and have them connect through your WAP in the main house. If he has problems connecting, you can try moving your WAP around for a different antenna orientation and hope that helps, or you can end up getting a range expander, as noted earlier.

    But do note there is no such thing as a wireless adapter for routers. Routers divide networks - that's it. Most routers have built in 4-port Ethernet "switches" to attach multiple network devices, but the switch is a separate network device just sharing the router's box and power supply. Network devices include computers, switches, hubs, network drives, print servers, and wireless access points (WAP). The router, WAP, 4-port Ethernet switch, (and sometimes the Cable/DSL modem/gateway) may all be inside the same box as the router, again, to save space and power supplies (but also so the same vendor can corner your networking purchases). Because there are different levels of integration, there is often confusion among users unfamiliar with other options. Easy to confuse, but we must remember that technically, they are separate network devices. And since some people have total separates, and some have integrated devices, without knowing exactly what we are dealing with, again, specifics are not always possible.

    So pegmeg, you have a WAP already in the main house and his two computers can (technically and in theory) connect already to it and share your connection (without affecting you). But, depending on the specific wireless equipment on both ends, antenna orientations, number, composition, and thickness of walls, floors, etc., 100 feet may be too far, the signal may get too degraded for full speed, satisfactory performance in the out-building. And so a range extender (made for relaying) may be needed, or a wireless upgrade all around.

    But please note, or for a simple reminder, that while you may be able see anyone approaching your house from a great distance, a badguy with a small directional antenna can hide a great distance away too, and still see your wireless network, with no worries about interference from surrounding homes or apartments either. So even out in the boonies, make sure you keep your network updated and secured from unauthorized access. You can never keep him from seeing your network!!!!! But you can keep him out. The fewer nodes (network devices) on the wireless side of your network, the better.

    I mentioned a full upgrade - If your wireless equipment in the main house is old, and his connection and performance is not good, I would suggest instead of the range extender, upgrading all your wireless devices to 802.11n from the same maker - this latest version offers the best security and range. I urge buying from the same maker because the 11n standard is still in "draft" and has been for years :(. All the major makers have "pretty much" agreed on the new standard, but obviously not enough to go final. So all you can be sure of (or hope) is the same maker will ensure their own 802.11n products communicate well together.
     
  14. innerpeace

    innerpeace Registered Member

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    Hi pugmug. Give Bill a chance as I know him from another forum. He's pretty sharp when it comes to hardware and his posts can be highly educational.

    It's important to know how your wireless signal is being sent from the main house. Model numbers of the equipment would help. You said one of your son's computers is for important things so if your equipment only has WEP security and/or a low signal then you may need to upgrade.

    Since I just setup my first wireless network 2 weeks ago, I can't help much. If your willing to dump the wired router, this is an excellent wireless pci adapter card. NewEgg only sells in the US, Canada and China.

    Good luck and keep us updated because I'm curious about the solution.
     
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