Completely screwed by ATI 2009

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MKairys, Nov 10, 2008.

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  1. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    I had ATI 2009 installed and decided to go back to 11. I decided to use the Acronis cleanup tool mentioned in the FAQ sticky. I took an image of my system disk just in case.

    I ran the cleanup tool. When it rebooted I got Windows Error Recovery, "Windows failed to start. A recent hardware or software change might be the cause". Whatever I do from there just lands me back there.

    So the Acronis cleanup utility trashed my system disk. Great. Good thing I thought to take an image. So I booted my 2009 rescue disk, got into ATI, went to Manage and Restore, Clicked Browse For Backup, found the image on my external drive, clicked Restore on the toolbar, chose "Restore whole disk" and clicked next, selected the partition (did not select MBR) and clicked next, and got to "Specify restore settings" where apparently I have to select my restore location by clicking "New location".

    Well, once I click that link-like thing I start getting beeps and nothing more. Anywhere I click, any key I press, all I get is a beep.

    I've tried "acpi=off noapic" (and how was I supposed to know to press F11 to get to where I could type that in??). I'm not using a USB mouse, it's a Dell laptop and I'm using the builtin touchpad. I found I could even tab to "New Location" and hit enter, but again all I got was a beep.

    So my system is hosed and I can't restore it. I suppose I can buy Mustang's VistaPE plugin and try to get that working on another computer somewhere, but jeez'...

    I've been using ATI since version 8 and I thought I was above and beyond horror stories like this. But hey, I thought I'd never get to the point where I wanted the newest version the h*** off my system and give me back the old version that works, please. Pride goeth etc.

    Any suggestions? TIA.
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I take it you didn't have a TI 11 image to fall back on.

    I don't know if the Cleanup Utility program has been updated to work with TI 2009.

    Did you try the Safe Media version of TI 2009? The restore may be slow, but a lot of newer computers will allow access to USB drives through the BIOS.
     
  3. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    Thanks for your reply, MudCrab.

    I do have a V.11 image but it's rather old. I might be better off doing a complete reinstall.

    I'm not sure what you mean by the Safe Mode version or why you suggest it... It doesn't seem that accessing the external USB drive is my problem since I can browse to and select the image on it.
     
  4. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Yes, but you said you couldn't complete the restore. If the Safe Mode version works and you can access your USB drive, you should be able to restore the image.
     
  5. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    You should be able to save the existing system. Boot up a recovery CD and edit the registry of the existing system. All you need to do is run regedit and use the Load Hive menu item to load the system hive from C:\Windows\System32\config. Name it Remote_System. Then look at this. You need to follow the instructions to remove the snapman service and the 2 snapman upper filters entries. Then use the Unload Hive menu item to save the changes. Your system will most likely boot.

    Make note of all the upper filters enties before you unload the Remote_System hive. This will help in case the system still does not boot.
     
  6. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Amazing legacy. :doubt:

    You always can expect to get what you walked into blindly before examining better choices and support.

    Completely screwed sums up the frustration shared by many more then those who came b 4 you.
     
  7. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    Thank you mustang for your instructions, and for offering me the hope I may get out of this without a lot of tedium :)

    I booted a VistaPE disk and followed your instructions as best I could, but here is what I found:

    1. After loading my system hive as remote_system and opening it, I saw ControlSet001 and ControlSet003 but no CurrentControlSet.

    2. I went into ControlSet003 services and found not snapman but snapman380. I removed it.

    3. I went into the two classes' UpperFilters as indicated and again found not snapman but snapman380. I removed those strings (only) from the multi-sz value as instructed.

    I unloaded the hive and rebooted. No success.

    I booted VistaPE again, loaded the system hive, and verified that my changes had stuck; then I went into ControlSet001. I found the snapman380 service and removed it. I did not find snapman strings in the two UpperFilters.

    I unloaded the hive and rebooted. No success.

    I don't know why I didn't find CurrentControlSet, but perhaps that's why this didn't work?
     
  8. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    ... and just to make this even more painful, I went and got out the DVDs on which I have a 6-month-old V.11 image, and the last one of the set is not readable.
     
  9. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    That's a good start.

    You need to operate on ControlSet001 when the system is not running. CurrentControlSet is only created during the boot process. When a system is not running, there is no CurrentControlSet.

    The result you saw in ControlSet001 would cause a BSOD. The snapman380 service was in place, but the snapman380 upper filters were removed. That will cause a BSOD every time. I'm sure I could fix your system if I were there. The next step is to make sure all three Acronis services that use an upper filter are removed. The two other services are timounter and tdrpman147. Boot up VistaPE again and make sure those two services are deleted. Also make sure they are removed from the upper filters locations.

    If that doesn't work, you need to determine if the Acronis Cleanup Utility removed an upper filter for a service that belongs to another program or driver. The only way to determine that would be to boot into VistaPE and mount an image that was made before TI was removed. Then you would Load the System hive from the mounted image as Remote_System and look at the list of upper filters. If you see any that were removed (other than snapman380, tdrpman147 or timounter), you would need to put them back into you system registry in ControlSet001.

    I've never trusted the Acronis Cleanup Utility because I know how difficult it is to write an app. that just remove one specific upper filter when you have no way of knowing what other upper filters are present. Frodo did it for me in the BartPE plugins that need to add and remove the timounter upper filter for image mounting. Some (but not all) services will give a BSOD if their upper filter is missing. They will also BSOD if the sevice is deleted but the upper filter remains in place. They will also BSOD if the service and upper filter are in place but the driver file is deleted from C:\Windows\System32\Drivers. The nasty thing about Windows is that it halts the boot process when it find something missing, but doesn't tell you what it is.
     
  10. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    That did it -- it's back up. Thank you so much!

    Cautionary tale, y'all...
     
  11. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    Great.

    Now you should delete the Acronis drivers from your system before you reinstall any version of TI:

    1. Delete snapapi.dll from C:\Windows\System32.

    2. Delete snman380.sys, tdrpm147.sys and timntr.sys from C:\Windows\System32\Drivers.

    Some or all of these files may already be deleted.
     
  12. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    I was a little too anxious I guess. I'd already reinstalled ATI 11 when I read the above. Now when I run it I get:

    E000101F4: Unable to open (initialize) computer
    Unable to initialize snapshot manager library
    The system cannot find the file specified.

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling of course... And I've looked in the (live) Registry and found the three Acronis services and verified that the files they point to are in place in system32/drivers.

    So what should I do now: repeat the exercise of removing from the registry the three services and their UpperFilter strings, and delete the files you listed above, and then reinstall? Or is it possible that I can just reinstall the snapshot driver from a download? Other threads have seemed to imply this is possible but I didn't see one that said "I did it and it worked..."
     
  13. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    I can't give you a quick fix because I don't know what the TI11.0 installer did. I find the Acronis installers can be very unpredictable. That's why I've learned to never install TI over the top of an existing version. That includes even a new build of the same version. I always uninstall first. Then I manually clean out the services, remove the upper filters, delete the service drivers, delete C:\Program Files\Acronis\TrueImageXXX and delete the HKLM\Software\Acronis registry key. If you have Disk Director installed, you must be carefull. I tend to keep Disk Director off my systems to aviod complication.
     
  14. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    I have just had to completely rebuild my laptop because of TI 2009 I previously had TI 11 and did the uninstall then installed TI 2009.

    Why Can't Acronis ensure that TI uninstalls fully we should not have to go cleaning out registry entries.
     
  15. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    I uninstalled, then ran the cleanup utility, then looked to see what it had done. It removed the services and UpperFilter entries, deleted system32/snapapi.dll, but left the .sys files in system32/drivers. Then I was able to reinstall successfully and run.

    Now that I understand what's going on, I have to say it was my fault for using the cleanup utility on version 12 when it is not advertised as such. And I should not have assumed that the V.12 rescue disk would "just work" on my system (although I have never had a problem with previous versions) because unfortunately with this product one cannot assume that it will all just work.

    I'm also glad to have learned how to edit an offline registry hive, and again I thank mustang for his patient tutelage.
     
  16. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    ok Chaps,

    I have completely rebuilt my laptop is it safe to install TI 2009 or will it disable my DVD rom again?
     
  17. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    Make sure you install Build 9615 and not 9608.
     
  18. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    will taking a restore point within Vista protect from the DVD rom and USB problems that can occur when install TI2009? It took me 4 hours to rebuild my laptop which is why I bought TI in the first place.
     
  19. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello kthornhi,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please notice that the problem with disappearing of USB cardreaders when installing Acronis True Image Home 2009 was fixed starting in build 9615. Please see this sticky thread for more information.

    If the problem you encountered is different, could you please describe it? Is there any error message?

    Thank you.
    --
    Marat Setdikov
     
  20. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    I installed build 9615 and again it has somehow disabled my dvd rom drive

    To try and get my drive functional again I removed Acronis TI 2009 and used a system restore point to no avail

    Acronis what is going on?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  21. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    kthornhi,
    Can you use the Add new hardware option and let Windows find the same item again? I have an external serial modem and if it is turned off when I reboot, Windows will miss the modem and I have to use the find new hardware option to have windows refind the modem. This may work for you also.
     
  22. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    Hi GroveH the dvd rw drive is an internal one hitting scan for hardware changes makes no difference I am rebuilding my laptop again I will be contacting Acronis for a refund

    without TI 2009 all is well
     
  23. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    kthornhi,
    Try opening the Device Manager and Right click on your computer name at the top.
    Select the Scan for hardware changes.
    See if that helps.

    Is the device listed with an error or not listed at all?
     
  24. mustang

    mustang Developer

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  25. kthornhi

    kthornhi Registered Member

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    GroveH Mustang hitting F5 the drive flashes up with an error then disapeers again this time the rebuild has not fixed the problem so maybe TI is not at fault

    ok well I deleted all my partitions and merged them back into one and my dvd is working again I am not going to install TI for a while i have run the Acronis report tool who can I send the data to?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
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