Comodo Dragon Browser - Where Is It Around Here?

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by DasFox, Oct 31, 2010.

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  1. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    I'm really surprised being on a forum of security matters that there is hardly a mention of Dragon. So why is that?

    Has Comodo received such a bad name around here that no one likes to talk about it? I don't see that to be such the case when there seems to be a lot of talk about their firewalls.

    Well Dragon certainly is a few versions behind, so maybe that could be the reason, their lag in bringing out more up to date versions on time?

    If you've been on any type of forum for any length of time, you'll know many people have the habit of just saying, this sucks, that's great, I'd never use that, blah, blah, blah and the truth is, that isn't really much help to anyone when you think about it. So could of all the bad words flying around of done it in?

    The people that really know, let's step forward with some real tangible evidence that can shows us why, what appears to be a good browser from a good company that is trying to do something to offer the end-user better security and privacy, isn't worthy of being the constant talk of the town around here?

    Or maybe no one really knows it exists, so that could be it?

    What Comodo is trying to do with Dragon, I personally don't see this as a bad thing, in fact with the way Google seems to be handling their transparency and their CEO, I'd say that Dragon is looking very appealing.

    Honestly if you have had in your head in the clouds lately or you've been hiding under a rock somewhere and you don't know the way in which the CEO of Google has been acting and the words he's been throwing around over matters of privacy and the end-user, then it's time to get out of those clouds or come out of hiding.

    Chrome is a good browser, I won't say it's not, but the biggest problem here that is happening, that either people don't see, don't want to see, or could care less about, is that your matters of Liberty and Freedom are coming closer to being further taken away on the Technology Front and if you think this is a joke then guess again.

    Let's be real clear here, this is the absolute point of this matter, your privacy, liberty and choices you'd like to have and keep as technology keeps advancing forward. So with that topic in mind, Dragon and any other Chromium Webkit based browser that is trying to do something to protect all of this, should be a hot topic around here, besides others.

    Where will we be in 10 years now with the Internet? No one really knows, but one thing that we can see now is that with the attitude of terrorism and it's rise, things like this will take a hit on these freedoms, along with greater problems in cyber crime and so on. So possibly before long, privacy and freedom in Cyber Space is a thing of the past.

    I don't know about you but in 10 years time I want to be a free man, making my own choices and plotting my own path the way I see fit to keep it and not have some CEO of a company telling me that what's in the best interest of everyone is to have everything about me known on the web at all times everywhere I go to insure internet safety, because the truth is, that's where we're headed.

    REMEMBER THESE GREAT MEN AND REMEMBER THEIR GREAT WORDS!

    Even today, these words still ring truth as it applies even to technology and a future for freedom on the internet.

    Patrick Henry:
    Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death

    Benjamin Franklin:
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety


    PEACE :)
     
  2. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    I'm English, so paranoid & endless rambling about 'freedom' isn't really a priority for me.

    I might have a look at the Comodo Dragon though.
     
  3. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    DasFox, you are certainly welcome to use any browser that suits your needs.

    And you are not telling me that I'm making inferior choices, or that my contributions in this forum are inferior. Are you?
     
  4. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    I have had a look at Comodo Dragon, I am not that impressed to be honest. Iron/Chrome are OK with extensions but I am not so paranoid that I mind certain extensions for security. I would rather be followed all over the Net with Google up my wazoo than compromise my computer security. A decent adblocker & something like WOT or NoScript are a definite necessity IMHO. The only new browser I have tried of late that I like a lot is Orca. There's hope for the Gecko engine yet I reckon!
     
  5. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    One's national identity and state of mind should have nothing to do with wanting privacy and freedom. This is something that can and will effect us all in the future. So I would hope no matter where you live in this world you would cherish having privacy and freedom on some level.


    The post isn't here to tell anyone to do anything, other then examine the current situation we are all in as end-users.

    Also to discuss topics of security as they relate to Dragon and why it seems to lack attention around here.



    What's not impressive and why do you think you're going to compromise your security with Dragon?

    Compared with other browsers, it's my understanding that the Sandbox of Chromium is suppose to offer something better for security.

    http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/sandbox

    At this point in time without seeing some real evidence I don't know that anyone can call a Chromium based browser less secure to compromise you any less.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  6. Scoobs72

    Scoobs72 Registered Member

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    Likewise. The market is flooded with browsers, and out of the big 5 almost everybody can find something that suits their needs. Bottom line: nobody cares, nobody is feelings 'compromised' with their existing browser - only the small niche market that shares your views on 'privacy' and 'freedom'.
     
  7. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    Just my opinion, but I daresay you'd be much more successful at achieving that goal if you provide something more substantial than mere rhetoric and hyberbole.
     
  8. vasa1

    vasa1 Registered Member

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    The original post is of dubious merit but it is in keeping with the trend of privacy concerns hijacking a forum primarily dedicated to Security.
     
  9. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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    I tried it out, but didn't really like it, the chromium based browsers don't have enough customizable options for me and I like the privacy and security addons from Firefox too much :p

    Lol, the UK is notorious for it's insane numbers of CCTV cameras. London is the champion with 7431 cameras, for example Paris has only 326 cameras. Some more interesting statistics:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8159141.stm
     
  10. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    Depending on where you live in this world Privacy and Freedom is by no means a small niche market. So please let's respect a world wide community here, because online that is what we are and a lot of people around the world still take their privacy and freedom very serious.

    Well if you want to talk about Top browsers that's typically, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera and not in that order either. :)

    Dragon is a Chromium/Chrome based browser, so we are not talking about something built from scratch that isn't going to have much of a foot to stand on.

    This isn't a post about my ideas, views, wants, or personal beliefs on anything, it's also not a fanboy post or anything over some hidden agenda. I personally happen to enjoy using many different browsers, but as a computer geek and someone that enjoys security in the computer world I do know that Comodo has something to offer, that's all...

    This is merely a post pointing out to a Security Community a browser that aims to bring better security features.

    So, something that is offering better security, or so they claim, I would think should grab the attention of those interested in security. I get the feeling that actually people don't realize it exists and that's why we haven't heard much around here over this.


    Well, I guess depending on where you live in the world, business might be as usual and your privacy and freedom have been the same as they were 10 years ago. But if you've been staying on top of current affairs as a computer geek, I'll say geek since we're in a security forum, then you should be pretty darn aware of the world's present situations as they relate to this topic and realize there is no mere rhetoric and hyperbole to this discussion, as it relates to online privacy and freedom.


    Sorry what are you talking about, I'm utterly lost... o_O
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  11. Eice

    Eice Registered Member

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    I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but the thing is there are so many people who just don't get it. So you don't trust Google, fine. Except that in the very next breath you turn around and advocate other browsers that are based on the exact same codebase that Chrome is.

    Chrome is part of Google's strategy to improve the Internet, not as an information collecting tool. This has been stated both in public and private plenty of times by Google. What, when, and how much Chrome collects has been thoroughly documented by Google itself and third-party researchers. So-called "privacy-conscious" Chromium forks like Iron have, in fact, been shown to provide no more extra privacy than Chrome does. And if you still don't trust them, feel free to inspect the source code, and/or check with a packet sniffer to see exactly what data Chrome is sending.

    And after all the information that's made public and readily verifiable, to still try to assert that Chrome somehow "invades your privacy" is ignorant at best.
     
  12. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    A/ Don't believe everything you read.

    B/ The UK has a lot of security cameras in major cities because it has economic advantages over employing more police on the beat supposedly.

    C/ I certainly don't feel that my freedom has been compromised in any way because of security cameras, let's face it, if you aren't breaking the law what have you got to fear?

    D/ I'm not free of socialised medicine in the UK either. Those evil limey local health authorities 'force' free medical care on me. The swines!

    E/ Those cameras have prevented &/or solved many crimes. What is the difference between having more cameras or having more beat coppers?

    F/ My education (two degrees & various post-grad qualifications) were primarily paid for by the State. I'm obviously not free of the evil limey education system either.

    G/ We have had terrorism in the UK for over 30 years by the IRA (much of it funded from US citizens), I wonder how many terrorist plots from Al Qaeda inter alia have been thwarted by those cameras?

    H/ There are no cameras in the village I live in & I have never felt paranoid that there are security cameras in any major city I have visited.

    Of course, there is always the question of Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  13. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    I think people are getting a little too paranoid about security matters that's all. I have privacy & freedom. I may not totally trust my government, but I don't see what I have to fear. After all, my ISP knows where I live, they installed my router!


    I use Iron & Chrome a lot, I've always liked the WebKit engine (except in Safari, which is a tad quirky on Windows IMO) & Chromium is fine. I may be wrong but as far as I could see Comodo Dragon didn't have an adblocker (or facility for an extension). I won't surf without one as I once got infected from a flash ad.

    I still prefer Iron, even if it is a 'scam'.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Kind of a simple concept here.

    People don't discuss what they don't care about. Why would they.

    Pete
     
  15. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    I try not to give every single detail of everything I'm trying to explain, after all when you make a post that's as involved as this, you try your best to condense it.

    So let me condense this even further, since I see it's not clear here my motives for this post.

    1. This is a post to mainly discuss security as it relates to Dragon.

    2. Trust here isn't just about Google if we want to bring that subject up, it's more about trust in anyone's hands, not just Google.

    3. The only reason Google and the CEO was mentioned in this post and say not someone else or another company is that Dragon is a Chromium/Webkit based browser, so who else would be the mostly likely discussion of this? Google of course. So honestly if you really wanted you could just toss away every preconceived notion about Google and just consider it a post really about Dragon vs Chrome is all, really.

    4. In regards to number 3, quite honestly nothing really matters over Google or the CEO, they are only one aspect, to make people think, what really truly matters is if Dragon as a browser offers anything better then Chrome.

    @Daveski17, your browser isn't the only layer of security, so if you got infected simply because you believe you didn't have adblock on a browser, then your other layers of security aren't working, because if you had other good layers of security in place, you would of never been infected by something like this. Adblocking is only to block content to make surfing more enjoyable without all the ads and popups, but of course blocking them can help to deal with problems, because people have exploited this, but it's not the main objective, so you are looking at it all wrong.

    Adblocking wasn't made for the specific purpose in mind to stop infections, it's merely an extension to stop the pesky ads, popups, banners, known as 'Content Filtering'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  16. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    So, discuss!!!

    Don't just pull, drag and take from others, but give some of your own qualities.
    After all, you are a geek, involved in technology since 1985 and also employed in Information Technlogy.
    With these qualities, you are able to provide us with information and a solid opinion, why not share all of that?

    What is YOUR experience with Dragon, other than that it's outdated? How do YOU value the software?
    What is YOUR experience with Comodo Customer Support and it's products?
     
  17. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Yes well, I was using Norton as my AV & had both SpywareBlaster & Spybot's protection enabled. The Google translation page (in SeaMonkey) informed me that I had been infected. SUPERAntiSpyware (on demand) found the trojan. I don't use Norton or Spybot any more. It was my own fault surfing Russian journals. WOT, an adblocker like ABP, NoScript &/or Ghostery would have probably all contributed to have prevented me from being infected in the first place. A good adblocker like ABP or Iron's internal one would definitely have. Comodo Dragon has no adblocker nor any extension abilities as far as I can see. I don't see why it is any more safe than Chrome/Iron or Firefox/SeaMonkey with NoScript. I would use SUPERAntiSpyware as realtime but I don't think it would get on too well with Microsoft Security Essentials.

    Basically you are inferring far too much from the information you have. I got infected because I naively surfed Russian websites that are, unknown to me then, renowned for being seeded with malware. A good adblocker would almost certainly have stopped this.

    No, I don't believe that I am looking at it all wrong, adblocking now is just as much about security as it is about blocking annoying adverts.

    It has evolved to be much more than that though.
     
  18. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    Ahh Norton isn't that hot. If you're in the market for an AV app you should check out the latest Avira Premium.

    Yes ad blocking has evolved I won't deny that, but every site you go to that talks about their ad blocking, refers to it first as a 'Content Filter'. That's where I was coming from, you never see them first referring to use it as a protection, but rather first to filter.

    For something simple to offer better protection would be NoScript. Now that's content filtering all about protection. ;)

    Well live and learn and be safe now, watch those Russian sites, hehe... :)




    Well the point of the post was to ask, where is Dragon.

    I've typically run only Firefox, both in Unix/Linux and Windows, but I've used just about every popular browser out there and then some.

    I don't use many features, extensions or addons, I'm more more for speed and stability. So with that idea in mind, I was drawn to Chromium, but before that I was really heavily leaning towards K-Meleon, but because of the project size I wanted to look to bigger development, where I could hopefully expect more. If K-Meleon was a bigger project, I'd probably be right there and happy.

    Since I run Linux a lot I started using Chromium in it and being happy with what I saw I started to play with the nightly builds in Windows.

    Being an old gecko based browser user it took me a while to wrap my head around the look and feel to Chromium, but now after playing with it for on and off a year I've been getting comfortable with it.


    The summary:

    1. If you don't need any of the features, addons, or extensions that Firefox offers, Dragon appears a very nice alternative, considering the differences in speed it offers. Chrome based browsers seem to be a lot faster at web rendering, at least they have all been faster for me. Also Chrome base browsers all seem to start and close faster then Firefox and other browsers I've played with.

    2. Dragon seems as good as Chrome or Iron.

    3. Underneath them all, I don't really know, I can only see what most of us see on the outside looking in. So are any of the Webkit based browsers really offering us anything different and with all the propaganda everyone throws around just looking without playing can be difficult.

    4. So why now am I leaning towards Dragon over others. I think it goes back to one simple idea I think most people believe, that it's better to be safe then sorry. So for speed and keeping safe, I think a Chromium based browser like Dragon is a tough mixture to beat. So for me the picture I've seen over the years, presents to me, that in this point in time Comodo Dragon looks like a better solution to go with. But because of their lag in bringing out versions, I'm going to really have to look at this to see if there are any negatives to this.

    5. One of the biggest problems for the end-user is that when you deal with companies that are big, trying to really get information about a project is difficult and what I mean is, not just the 'Propaganda PR Pitch' they are throwing on their websites, but really the truth to what is behind that code, if it's really doing what they say they are doing.

    6. So as it relates to number five, I've typically taken the small-medium ground with software, meaning smaller companies, easier communication and support.

    7. So for me, I've typically always looked for the smaller better alternatives that are just as good and for me it's worked and that's what's brought me to Dragon. Granted smaller then Chrome, but bigger then Iron, like I said, the small-medium ground.

    We all have different tastes, but that should not exclude Dragon in any way to say it doesn't offer something and that is really where I'm coming from, because at this point in time I really think it does.

    Listed below is what Comodo seems to be doing with Dragon with their latest release notes:

    COMODO Dragon Release Notes:
    Comodo Dragon internet browser is based on the source code of Google Chrome browser but has a number of improvements, which includes fixes some privacy and security improvements.

    ADDED Certificate Domain Validation checking warning
    Comodo Dragon uses advanced domain validation technology originally developed in Comodo Verification Engine. It performs additional analysis of a domain's SSL certificate to warn about those that been issued with Domain Only Validation.

    FIXED Client identification number privacy issue.
    Comodo Dragon fixes this privacy issues, which exists in Chrome browser. Chrome creates an ID for each client (user). This security gap theoretically can be used to identify a user. This ID has been removed.

    REMOVED RLZ-Tracking capability.
    RLZ-Tracking is a Chrome's feature which informs Google about when and where the browser has been downloaded. This capability has been removed in Dragon. This has been done to protect user privacy

    COMODO's traditional product update technology is used.
    Dragon uses COMODO's own installer and update technology. Chrome, on the other hand, checks for updates and makes update via Google Updater, legality of which was put under question by Red Bend Software. Google Updater was entirely eliminated in Dragon

    REMOVED error reporting mechanism.
    Error reporting is used by Google to find and remove problems in their software however the information, which is sent to Google, includes some data about the computer's software. In case it this information is intercepted by an attacker, it can be used to reveal vulnerabilities in the computer's security system. COMODO Dragon has eliminated this mechanism is order not to compromise user's security and privacy.

    REMOVED installation time-tracking.
    COMODO's installation technology doesn't use and store information about when the software was installed and updated, all actions are based only on your current version number, whereas Chrome installation stores detailed (up to the second) information about software installation time

    ADDED smart software removal
    During software remove Dragon asks user whether he or she wants to keep user preferences data (home page, search engine customizing, etc) and leaves or removes user profile based on his or her choice. This is done for user's convenience. Leaving user's profile on your computer is recommended if you are going to return to using Dragon in future

    EXCLUDED remote error pages usage
    Dragon uses locally stored error messages (such as "Page not found"), whereas Chrome in its default configuration uses server-stored error messages. In Dragon information about your network input errors is limited to your browser instead of being sent to Google’s remote server.

    So honestly as an IT Tech that has only been digging into WebKit browsers just over the past year, I think Dragon deserves some attention as a respectable player in the WebKit scene.

    And if anyone is saying, they'd like to see a nice big competitor against Google, then who is really big enough out there working on a Webkit based browser other then Comodo? No one that I have seen...

    One thing that's pretty easy to see is that they do lag behind versions, so to many end-users this could be looked down upon and if Comodo is doing so because they think it's better then should be letting the end-users know about this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  19. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Tell me about it LOL!

    I got Norton free with my ISP (British Telecom). They changed to McAfee, I used that for a while but eventually uninstalled it from my laptop & replaced it with MSE. My desktop PC also has MSE. I like the price of MSE & it is a very good AV. Avast! or AVG would probably be my second & third choices. I tried Panda but it has more false positives than MBAM! :eek:

    Either way, it can be a defence against malware.

    I think it was the first extension that I added to Firefox 4 beta 6. Mr Maone has had his critics but I think NoScript is a brilliant tool. It works well.

    Oh ... those Russians! ... o_O
     
  20. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    I've played with all the big named AV apps out there and done a lot of research on them and it's very important for my business, so trust me when I say this as a tech, Avira Premium, not the free version is a better AV then all of the ones you just mentioned. ;)

    P.S. Let's not side track the post to much, hehe... :)
     
  21. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Yeah, we shouldn't get side tracked, ;) but there are as many opinions about AVs as there are AV releases themselves. I have faith in MSE & common sense browsing. No one should have to pay for an anti-virus application. That is basically a protection racket! :cool:
     
  22. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Actually the majority of people are too complacent. And yes, the U.K is a privacy nightmare. And I don't say that out of paranoia or wanting to hear myself talk, I've been there more than once in the last 5 years, it's bad. All that aside as it is not the topic, I don't see Dragon going far. I don't want it simply because of the company, but I also see it as just another project from them that turns out to be not much worth a thing.
     
  23. DasFox

    DasFox Registered Member

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    Complacency, that's a very good point.

    I've known of Comodo ever since it started and from the beginning I didn't see anything that interested me, but over the years they seemed to have made some nice changes worth looking at.

    What do you see wrong with the company?

    As far as being another project, well I guess all we can really say is, time will tell.
     
  24. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Lets not go there. That for sure will bring out the fan boy's as well as the anti comodo people, and this thread will spiral to closure in a heart beat.

    Stay on topic which is the browser.
     
  25. Daveski17

    Daveski17 Registered Member

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    Where did you find this privacy nightmare? I haven't been south of the Watford Gap for a while, but I would hardly call the UK a privacy nightmare. Are you sure you didn't get off the wrong aeroplane?
     
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