Cloning with True Image 9

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Turning4Home, Nov 3, 2006.

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  1. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    I normally keep two hard drives in my computer, one as a master and the other as a slave.
    What I would like to do is clone the master to the slave, and leave both drives in my computer so that I always have an extra drive as a backup.
    I'd like to know if it's better to boot to the rescue CD first, and then clone the drive, or just boot into Windows XP, and then into True Image to do the cloning.
    I'd appreciate any thoughts on this question.
     
  2. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    Since you never know what is running in the background when Windows is running, my preference is to use the bootable CD.
    But after the Clone procedure, I think you have to disconnect one of the drives for the first reboot after the cloning. It used to be that way with previous versions.
     
  3. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    If you clone the master to the slave whatever is on the slave will be deleted. What you will get is a duplicate master drive and nothing else.
    If this is what you want that's fine. You should shut down the computer as soon as the clone process has finished and remove the old master drive because Windows does not like being confused with two C drives connected at the first reboot.

    To provide an adequate backup of your master drive cloning is not IMHO the way to go. Making updated images to a slave drive on a regular basis is a far better. You will then have a choice of images from which to restore.
    BTW It is always best practice to backup from the windows environment and restore from the rescue CD.

    Xpilot
     
  4. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Thanks Ralphie.
    I've cloned in the past, but wanted to get opinions as to whether or not I should boot from the rescue CD first.
    I haven't had to disconnect the slave drive on first reboot, and Windows has always identified the two drives as C and D.
     
  5. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Thanks Xpilot.
    As I mentioned to Ralphie in my previous post whenever I've cloned with True Image I was able to reboot after the cloning process without removing the slave drive, and Windows always saw the two drives as C and D.
    I've tried making images, and storing the images on an external USB hard drive, and have run into problems with corrupted images so I've decided to keep a cloned drive instead. I plan on cloning every couple of weeks so I will always have a fairly current copy of my master drive.
    I'm still a little confused now though about whether I should boot from the rescue CD before cloning though as you, and Ralphie seem to have different opinions.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    A quote from Dan Goodell concerning keeping "Clones" as a backup technique.

     
  7. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    Try it both ways and choose whichever you find suits you better. Both will work.
     
  8. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian.
    I guess I've been lucky with cloned drives then. I've never had to repair them or had trouble booting to them. I've simply gone into the BIOS and changed the boot order so that I could boot to the slave and it's always worked fine.
     
  9. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Thanks again Ralphie.
     
  10. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Turning4Home,

    As said in the previous posts cloning can be done equally well from the CD or Windows.
    In my post I was making the point that backing up ie. Imaging was a better way of securing a system rather than cloning. When imaging starting from within Windows has many advantages over re-booting from the CD. The main one for me is that the backups can be made automatically to a schedule with no user intervention.
    Anyway you find that cloning suits your requirements so my suggestion becomes irrelevant.

    I am surprised that you can make sucessfull clones by just changing the BIOS settings without Windows getting confused by having a pair of clones on board.
    I cannot use this method on my somewhat elderly computer, the IDE controller would not allow it! but your BIOS is obviously more capable than mine.

    I wonder, if after you have done your next clone, you could do the ultimate test of disconnecting the donor drive completely and booting from the clone. One would then know for sure that your process works if you had an actual main hard drive failure.


    Xpilot
     
  11. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    I wonder, if after you have done your next clone, you could do the ultimate test of disconnecting the donor drive completely and booting from the clone. One would then know for sure that your process works if you had an actual main hard drive failure.

    I'm going to bookmark this post, and get back to you with the results.
    Thanks again.
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Xpilot, I've been testing clones lately and I was pleasantly relieved that it does work. I started with 2 partitions on the old HD, C and D. Using TI from Windows I cloned the old HD to a new HD and it became E and F. I rebooted a few times and then removed the old HD and booted to the new HD. It booted as C and ? (can't remember). If you try this with Partition Clones (Ghost 9/10) then you get all sorts of problems. But you can fix the problems. Disk to disk cloning with Ghost 2003 works like the TI example.

    Even so, I don't use clones for backup.
     
  13. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Well as someone who also does not use the cloning technique for any purpose, there are IMHO better ways, I am just following this up out of achedemic interest.

    The received wisdom used to be, according to Dan Goodell and many others, that having two C drives connected at the first reboot after cloning could lead to subsequent booting problems.

    I note that In V10 when cloning first surfaces in chapter 13 of the manual there is no mention that I could see about changing the boot order or disconnecting the donor drive . As Alice said curioser and curioser [​IMG]


    Xpilot
     
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Xpilot, that's what surprised me. Using partition cloning I could make the process fail every time by breaking Dan's rules.

    But these rules don't seem to apply to disk to disk cloning. Like you, I'm just doing this out of academic interest.
     
  15. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    I said I would get back here and post after I did my next cloning, and to let you all know that things went well except for a little minor problem before I was able to clone the disk.
    About a month ago I bought a USB 2.0 hub that was plugged into my computer. It feeds a scanner, and an external hard drive. It's never given me any trouble.
    Today when I tried to clone the disk the process took less than three minutes from start to finish. Normally it takes about ten minutes give or take a few minutes. As I sat here watching the progress I knew immediately that something wasn't right.
    After I rebooted I checked the drive I had cloned to and realized nothing had taken place. I sat here trying to figure out what went wrong when the light bulb went on in my head, and I decided that the culprit might be the USB hub. I disconnected it, and sure enough the cloning process went off without a hitch.
    That's one more thing for you guys to put in your memory bank in case somebody else winds up here with the same problem.
    Thanks to all of you for your advice, it's appreciated.
     
  16. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    USB hubs and wireless devices (keyboard or mouse) have always presented problems with previous versions. Sometimes even using a front usb port poses problems. So that's one more thing that hasn't been fixed with ver 10.
     
  17. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    I suppose that's why I've had problems with trying to restore images that were stored on a USB external drive and so have other people.
    I guess we can only hope that one of these days Acronis gets those issues fixed.
     
  18. EdWh

    EdWh Registered Member

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    Hi Turning for home.

    I have cloned my hdd with version 9.0 as sweetly as could be desired. The interface contains a "Clone Drive" and as long as you have the master and slave set up it will do a image so well that when you follow the instructions and change the slave to master and connect to the end of the cable and in my case leave the original off line. It checks the clone on the first boot up and then allows you to boot to desktop and check your programs and functions to prove they all are as on original drive, you can then power down the computer reconnect the original master and leave the cloned drive powered off in the machine for future use. I have done this twice and on the second clone, I switched from IDE to Sata so all I have to do is change the plugs on the drives or the board as both drives are master so no jumpers are involved, and my drives run as 150gbs rather than 133. Why bother with back ups when if you clone once a month you have a complete up to date drive, minus the last few M/S updates and Virus updates which you can catch up on the next clone. Entire process takes less than 30 min.
    If you have a reason for back ups which I do not nor do I need the Acronis Secure zone as the cloned drive takes care of that, and does away with the need for CD boot disc's except on the first clone, just to be safe. However as you can see from my post Acronis 10.0 corrupted two drives on me but 9.0 is perfect.
    Works fine for me. Edwh:thumb:
     
  19. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    For years I cloned my drives with Western Digital Data Lifeguard Tools, but when I switched to 80Gb hard drives that method didn't work anymore so that's why I bought Acronis True Image.
    I like the idea that I always have a spare drive waiting in the wings in the event disaster strikes or problems with Windows.
    I agree with you that the clone may not always be entirely up to date, but that's easily fixed.
    My only problems regarding True Image is why Acronis can't seem to remedy the problems with USB external drives and as I mentioned in my previous post with a USB 2.0 hub.
    I also am disappointed that I can't restore an image from a USB external hard drive, because I wanted to image my laptop's hard drive, and that was one of my reasons for buying True Image.
    As far as cloning drives though I think True Image does a great job.
     
  20. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    A usb drive that is connected directly to the system's usb port i.e. NOT via a hub WILL work. Many people here use that method including myself.
    The problems start when you have too many usb devices connected whether via a hub, which itself may cause a problem, or directly to multiple usb ports on the system. If you run into a problem it is always better to have ONLY the usb drive connected directly.
     
  21. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Hi Turning4Home.

    This feature has worked fine for me since V8. However I have never connected it via a hub.

    F.
     
  22. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    There are many USB devices that may not work as expected if they are connected via a USB hub. I had this problem years ago with a digital camera and then with a scanner.
    I was told that it was basically a bandwidth and in some cases a power problem.
    Each USB port is allocated a certain amount of bandwidth and eletrical power. When a hub is connected to a port the bandwidth and power is shared pro rata with the hubs ports. It is not unusual for a pair of front mounted ports to be sharing one port on the board.
    A shortage of power may be solved by using a powered hub but the reduced bandwidth is a fact of life.
    The best solution is to fit a PCI board to provide extra full strength USB ports.

    In other words it is not an Acronis problem that a USB drive does not work with a particular computer.

    Xpilot
     
  23. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Turning4Home,

    This is my collection of workarounds to try in connection with booting from Rescue CD if the external drive is not seen in rescue environment:

    - apply the "quiet acpi=off noapic" parameter as detailed in the Please Read Before You Post sticky;
    - disconnect every unneeded USB device;
    - don't use an USB hub, plug the external drive directly, possibly to a rear panel port (on a desktop PC);
    - connect and power up the external drive before booting from Rescue CD (or just after the CD drive starts if the external drive is set on top of the boot order list);
    - wait for a minute on the selection screen to give time to the external to initialize before proceeding;
    - select the Safe version of TI instead of the Full (which should be the first choice).

    By the way, I also think imaging to be a superior strategy to cloning for the home user. Even when replacing the main drive for which instance cloning was meant in the first place.

    IMO cloning remains the right choice in business setups, where the shortest downtime is paramount. It requires to always have a very recent clone available, of course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2006
  24. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Sorry for the misunderstanding. The USB external hard drive is connected directly to a USB 2.0 board in my computer. I've had corrupt images when trying to restore from that external hard drive and another one I've tried.
    The USB 2.0 hub became an issue when I tried to clone yesterday. I had to disconnect the hub in order for the cloning process to work.
     
  25. Turning4Home

    Turning4Home Registered Member

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    Thanks for the workarounds.
    The external drive I use is connected to a USB board, not a hub.
    The hub is used for a scanner, and now and then for a thumbdrive.
     
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