clone HD with TI09, then continue to use old HD?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by homeoffice, Nov 29, 2008.

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  1. homeoffice

    homeoffice Registered Member

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    Planning to clone my current 170 GB laptop hard drive to a 100 GB hard drive as a backup/security measure (automatic mode).

    TI 09 notes that the original hard drive will have to be removed after the cloning process (which I plan to continue using). Is this accurate?

    More importantly, can I continue to use the original hard drive and simply lock away the new cloned hard drive?

    Just careful since this is not clearly documented in the manual.

    Thanks
     
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    homeoffice,

    Do you have an IBM laptop? There are cloning issues with this brand.

    How are you planning to do the clone? Do you think 170 to 100 GB will work?

    How many partitions are on your HD? What are the sizes and amount of data in each?
     
  3. homeoffice

    homeoffice Registered Member

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    Yes, I have a Thinkpad T61 with XP SP3. It comes with a hidden recovery partition of about 6GB which TI09 recognizes. Whether it will actually clone this section I am not sure.

    Cloning with previous TI versions did not work and ended with runtime errors. TI09 in automatic mode works until the execution point where I stopped due to the "remove old disk" issue.

    Otherwise the disk has 2 partitions of 90 and 60 GB (each used up at about 40GB). Shrinking down to 100GB is not the issue, there is enough disk space.

    Thanks
     
  4. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    homeoffice,

    With IBM laptops you have to do a reverse clone due to the 240 Heads BIOS. The old HD should be in the USB enclosure and the new HD should be mounted internally. You have to boot from the Acronis TI CD to run the clone in this situation.

    Not really. The last sector in use would be well beyond the 130 GB mark, even with very efficient defragging. If you created images instead of cloning, your data would fit on the 100 GB HD. You could probably get two generations of images on that HD and they can be easily updated. Clones can't be easily updated.

    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/notes.htm#14

    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/notes.htm#15
     
  5. homeoffice

    homeoffice Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    Good point regarding the required space - while the partitions are fully defragged data resides in sectors spread across the drive. I was under the impression that TI09 would take this into account even when cloning and essentially write data in a sequential, non-spaced manner. The interface in automatic mode seems to indicate this.

    The issue is not image vs. clone. I need a clone I can swap in at a moments notice to continue working (short of uploading files I work with). After three blue screens in six months which all required reinstalling the OS (Vista, which I never should have bought and now threw away) this is essential.

    Thanks.
     
  6. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Unless you have a larger HD, I doubt this can be done with cloning. You may be able to do it with image/restore but I doubt it. The 100 GB HD is too small. I haven't used TI for a while, more recent versions may do this. Someone will let us know.

    GroverH has a tutorial on upgrading to a larger HD but that's the opposite of what you are trying.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=203480

    Any questions?
     
  7. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    (Brian posted while I was composing a response.)

    Just a couple thoughts.

    1. You are placing 80G of used space onto a 100G disk. While the clone may be successful, attempting to use it in a work environment provides no room for the system to do its thing with temp files and restore points, etc. You really should consider a larger drive.

    2. Before attempting a clone, to have some kind of a safety net, I would strongly urge you have a full disk backup of your entire system disk. There have many horror stories of a cloning operation which failed either to user mistakes, power outages or program malfunctions, etc. Take the time to perform the disk option backup before attempting the clone. The manual method of cloning provides more user control and many consider the manual method to be safer as compared to automatic.

    3. You may want to review My guide to Manual Cloning using the TI Rescue CD. This was written for V9-10-11 but overall is still applicable to v2009. This guide practices the same procedures as illustrated by BrianK has suggested--as some of his good works are included in the guide.
     
  8. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello all,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please accept our apologies for the delay with the response.

    All suggestions concerning clone are correct. However we would not recommend you to clone your drive with your hidden partition to prevent boot issue. The simplest way is create a backup of your system partition and then recover it onto new hard drive (note that such drive may not boot after recovery, so you should perform MBR fixing as described here.

    Anyway, please feel free to contact us via livechat service, we will do the best to provide you with simplest solution.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexander Nikolsky
     
  9. pahoo31

    pahoo31 Registered Member

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    "so you should perform MBR fixing as described here"

    How do you fit a 1.44mb file on a 1.38mb disc, which is the size of a floppy after formatting. tia. pahoo31.
     
  10. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello pahoo31,

    Thank you for your interest in Acronis True Image

    You should not copy/paste the program to a floppy disk. You should just place a floppy disk to the drive and hit "Create floppy" button. The program will be written automatically.

    Thank you.

    __
    Oleg Lee
     
  11. homeoffice

    homeoffice Registered Member

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    Revisiting this old thread since I am stumped.

    Here's where I am:
    - Thinkpad T61 environment with 160GB HD, i.e. the IBM cloning issue
    - Trying to create a clone or copy of an existing HD (XP, SP3) to run in an identical T61
    - Existing HD has three partitions: C, E, and the hidden recovery partition

    Here's what I tried to do:
    - Back up the C Drive and restore it to a new HD (identical 160 GB)
    - Restore was successful, sort of (i.e. can see files)
    - Bios recognizes the HD
    - T61 will not boot from restored C drive: "NTLDR is missing"
    - Tried the XP CD-Rom recovery approach but the recovery CD-Rom did not recognize the restored HD (i.e. "no HD detected")

    Here's what I am asking:
    - My hunch is that the boot.ini file or MBR do not work properly. What should I concisely do to figure this out and fix this given that the CD-Rom recovery approach does not seem to work?
    - Do I need to create a proper clone with all the risks (thanks to Brian for his documentation) associated?

    Many thanks.
     
  12. snifferpro

    snifferpro Registered Member

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    In your last post you said you did a backup. Was that a backup or a clone?


    When you did the restore, did you make sure you checked Restore MBR?
     
  13. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    You have a "boot.ini" file that is pointing to the wrong partition. That's what usually causes the "missing ntldr" problem.
    Download the free "paragon rescue kit 9.0 express" it's a bootcd that has a "boot corrector". When it boots up your computer you can edit the boot.ini file with it.
    A bartpe bootcd can also do the same thing, but the boot corrector also can change drive letters etc very useful to use when restoring windows xp.
    Don't worry about the MBR, your problem is not MBR related.

    As far as clone or image. The only important thing to remember is the backup of bootable partition, will always be "bootable" when restored. Theres no need to copy all the miscl partitions on the hard drive. The problems you might encounter boot.ini or drive letters are easy to fix with a "boot corrector".

    Clones are only require if you have "multiple OS" on the hard drive and in those cases you want the MBR etc to be similar to the original hard drive.

    As far as the CHS geometry problems sometimes encountered, the free "testdisk" has the capability of changing the geometry on a hard drive. That might be something to look into especially if you know the Geometry of the "source drive".

    Important note once you do a clone you don't want to ever bootup your computer with 2 identical drives (source and restored drive) at the same time. That's why it tells you to disconnect one of the drives. If you do by accident bootup with 2 identical drives, worst case both drives become unbootable. But a "boot corrector" can fix those problems.
     
  14. homeoffice

    homeoffice Registered Member

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    Thanks. Figured it out thanks to the Paragon app. User error. I inadvertently set the C Drive to inactive... No wonder it did not work. All good now.
     
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