Can't make an image?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Lady Dungeness, Jul 5, 2007.

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  1. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    So I installed my OS on one partition, pagefile on another, data on a third, and programs on a fourth. A few of the program files went into the OS partition because that's the way they wanted to install.

    So my OS, XP Home, is about 3 gigs on the OS partition, which is just under 6 gigs in size. That's about as small as I could make it. I've made images before of larger partitions; but now, Acronis won't let me make an image of my C drive. WTH?

    What should I do next?
     
  2. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    What are you using for the destination device? Does it contain enough free space?

    From inside Windows, Acronis will allow a backup of C onto C (if space allows), but using the Rescue CD, this option is not available.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  3. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    Thank you for the suggestions. I think it's working now -- I had to unninstall and reinstall to the boot disk in order to have it make an image of the boot partition.
     
  4. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Personally, I would allow and force all installs into os partition. Since the program files is so closely tied to the os and the registry has all the installs, it would be difficult to restore only your current C partition since it does not contain all the program files. This is a matter of personal preference.
     
  5. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    Yeah, I wondered about that. I'm getting different advice from different experts. Ultimately I decided to put them on separate partitions, because at least I can get the OS up and running again quickly, and incremental backups will go faster.

    Now that the images are made, I'm going to install a new internal HD. On the new one, I plan to have separate partitions for
    * OS & Hardware
    * Pagefile
    * Program Files
    * Data
    * Temporary
    * Archives ?

    I think this design will cut down on a lot of fragmentation, make a defrag run faster, and make images/backups smaller and faster. If I don't like it, I can always merge the partitions.

    My biggest problem is with USB connectivity; my laptop works fine with the same USB setup. The problem is with the desktop -- hardware? software? gremlins?

    Lady Dungeness
    Crabby, but Delicioius!
     
  6. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Another vote for putting the Program Files with the OS. It is too tightly bound to be considered a different entity. Windows without the apps doesn't do much of anything unless you are using it as a file server/print spooler.

    Most apps are relatively static once they are installed so won't do much to an incremental backup size. Besides, if you want to have an up-to-date backup of your system excluding the data, you will have to do both partitions anyway.

    I do recommend deviating from this rule for large games like Flight Simulator. They are a total waste of time to back up over and over since they can easily be reinstalled from the CDs. If you don't like that, a single backup will suffice since they don't change.
     
  7. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Is the partition arrangement mentioned in post #2 for the laptop or desktop?
    Is the new internal drive to be a replacement or addition?

    1. Archives should not be stored on your system disk. Put on a second disk and also on an external disk--not connected--except for backups. An electrical jolt can ruin your computer so you need archives stored away from computer.
    2. Page file needs to be on a different disk--to gain much benefit. Storing on a same disk but different partition is better than no separation but not as good as on a second disk.
    3. Program files: as previously suggested, most installs should be "drive c". Games, (if lessor important) could be installed into another drive--but you still have the issue of Registry entries.
    4. Some of your backups should be of the full disk (disk checked or everything) checked so your backup includes all partitions on the entire disk. Should you have a system disk failure, it would be that full disk backup archive which would be used on the new replacement.
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I used to have separate partitions for the OS and programs. For the same reasons mentioned above I now just have a single partition. But I do have a partition for games (eg Flight Simulator) which I image "yearly".

    A question I have always wanted to ask. Can this games partition be backed up as a data partition instead of using an image backup. ie Copy and paste to another HD. Will it work if it's restored as "data" rather than an image restore?
     
  9. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Interesting question. I wouldn't want to be my life on it but I'd say yes. It doesn't have to boot.
     
  10. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I would think that normally there would not be any problems backing up or restoring a games partition as data, copy and paste, etc.

    However, doing an image backup/restore of the partition might be faster (perhaps a lot faster). You might do a test run and compare the speed difference.
     
  11. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    I'm using a USB External HD, Western Digital, 300 gigs. I've got two partitions on it, with the backups going onto a dedicated partition. There's loads of room.
     
  12. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    Good point. Maybe I should make a partition for OS & Basic Apps -- like Office, Photoshop, etc. And another partition for the stuff I just mess around with.

    I just hate it when they get all fragmented. It can take forever to defrag. So the smaller the better from that standpoint. I was thinking, too, that putting a pagefile on a separate partition would prevent it from fragmenting other files.
     
  13. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    For the desktop. The new internal drive will be an addition. I want to have a dual boot system. The larger internal drive will be for business purposes. I'll keep the smaller one for downloading music and messing around on the net. I want to keep malware risk as low as possible for the Business drive.

    It's getting to where I think I need to have 5 disks just to make backups. LOL I've got an external HD, USB, that I'm storing the backups on. It's got archived data on it, too. Once the internal is installed, I'll be using the external HD just for backups.


    Maybe it doesn't matter; Photoshop can be pretty hard on a pagefile; I want to keep it from fragmenting the OS and programs. Will giving it its own partition accomplish that?

    Yeah; Games, definitely go on the older, smaller HD. No games on the business HD. As for Registry entries, I use ERUNT to backup the registry on a regular basis.

    I made one of the full disk (15 gigs) when I first started this; I don't understand what the difference is? If I image Drive C, wouldn't that alone restore my system to a working state?

    I appreciate all the input from you guys.
     
  14. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Sorry to have missed this thread earlier for my favorite crab lady. :)

    You really are making backup difficult by having so many partitions. Windows installs parts of programs in the boot partition no matter what you do, so it makes sense to have Windows and ALL installed programs in one partition. Moving the pagefile also makes restores more difficult for very little if any benefit.

    You can put some data on a second partition. My Documents can be moved and so can email, but if you ever need help from anyone in any tech support, they will be totally confused and unable to be helpful. Tech support people are only trained on the standard locations for data. It's smarter in the long run to leave almost everything on the C partition except voluminous data such as photos or video files. Having these on a data partition allows them to be backed up separately from the operating system files.

    With your current arrangement, you have to backup the boot partition and the program partition and the pagefile partition all together to hope for a bootable system when you restore. So, nothing is gained over having everything in one partition that you know will restore and boot successfully.

    By the way, you are among many who have gotten bad advice on this partitioning business. Whoever gave you the advice was still thinking about a DOS 3.2 computer and was probably over 50. :)
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I don't plan on doing it. Just wondering. I think imaging would be more efficient. Thanks.
     
  16. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    C in a multi-partitioned drive as you describe is not "the drive", it is the single partition on the drive. To restore the total operating system and apps means restoring the OS partition, the apps partition, and the pagefile partition. The pagefile is a little uncertain whether you have to do it because TI doesn't save the contents of it anyway, it only includes a few byte placeholder.

    Apps, even when installed on another partition, do not put everything there and copy files to the C partition as well as making registry entries which are on C. The files on C are because XP is a multi-user system so entries are made in the various personal setting areas among others. This is why you have to have all the partitions to restore the system properly.

    Others will disagree with me but it has been along time since I got my shorts in a knot about defragging. I'm not going to argue that there is no benefit but for what I do it isn't worth doing at frequent intervals. This is particularly true if you put your data files elsewhere and putting data on a separate partition/location from the OS is a very smart idea. Also, once the Program Files area is defragged, it stays defragged unless you are making lots of changes.

    The real benefit of putting the pagefile elsewhere is when you put it on another physical drive with a different controller or controller channel; the benefit of a separate partition is not as great. I always say, that general "good ideas" should be considered but not necessarily implemented. If you want to see if putting the pagefile elsewhere really is a benefit you have to do some tests with a stopwatch trying the configurations for the way you work, not how somebody else or a server farm works. BTW, tests have shown that the average user can't accurately detect speed differences until they vary by something like 15%.
     
  17. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Hey John, What are you saying? Since you fit that age bracket and I'm older than you, does this mean you and I should start putting an age disclaimer on our postings? Surely you can't be saying that all postings by individual less than 50 years of age is more accurate than those over 50! ;)

    Hard drives have changed so much over the past few years. Todays drives are twice as fast. Price is hardly a factor anymore (even for us seniors). I just bought a 500 GB Seagate for $119. Three years ago, my 120gb cost even more. Not too many years ago, I paid fifteen hundred dollars for a 300 Megabyte drive (yes megatbyte). So partitioning and defragging deserve much less attention....and your comments "over 50" in this situation is probably true--even when just "jesting." :thumb: ;)
     
  18. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    Also over 50 and guilty of multiple partitions, and convinced it's the smart way to go, as opposed to the kids with one huge partition. Of course it's undeniably true that feeling smarter than the kids is also a symptom of being over 50.

    Regards, CatFan
     
  19. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    And Lady Dungeness is over 50 as well. But I'm happy to get advice and suggestions from people of any age. :)

    CatFan -- can you please elaborate? Give me the reasons you prefer to use multiple partitions.
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    WHOAAA. Whats's this about "kids" with one huge partition. I guess I am a "kid" over 50, with two machines, one with a 500g drive and one with a 640gig drive and only ONE partition on each one, and it works fine, no problems, no data risk, etc etc, ad nausem.:D
     
  21. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    Hi JMK -- You make me blush. BTW, I *love* people under 50. :)

    As a former flower child and proud baby boomer, let me suggest that training be changed, that our new techies be encouraged to think outside the box, to question authority. What fun is a world full of sheep?

    And you are so right about the person who gave me the mult-partition advice; he is well over 50, and is one of Microsoft's MVP's on another forum.
     
  22. Lady Dungeness

    Lady Dungeness Registered Member

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    This is good to know. I thought I was saving space ... I'll run right now and put the pagefile back on C.

    Isn't there a way to make it quit doing that? It's the one think about XP that makes me ill. I once tried to hack my way around it. I did pretty good for the first few hundred changes. Then kaboom! Had to reinstall. So I gave up on that avenue. After all these years, hasn't anybody figured out how to get XP to be a single-user system and to *kill* the D&S thing?

    I see you speak American English. Very good! The British would say "knickers in a twist." Straighten out your shorts now; no sense becoming infertile over defragging. ;-)
    Seriously though, I only use the Windows defrag utility; It does make a difference, especially if I've been working with a lot of large files. For me that would be music, photos, reference books, and forms.
     
  23. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    There are probably lots of disclaimers we all should put in, but I was just saying that separating the operating system, programs and data on different partitions was last possible with DOS - something only old people recollect along with leaded gasoline, 78 RPM records and American Bandstand. SeekForever expressed the technical aspects of this well earlier today.
     
  24. CatFan432

    CatFan432 Registered Member

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    Lady Dungeness,
    How far north are you? I’ve walked the Dungeness sand spit from one end to the other, didn’t see any crabs, tho. Wanted to never leave.

    I started recommending separate partitions for data and particularly media files for friends who did not do a good job of backing up, if they backed up at all. We’d have a crash, typically software, and would have to restore from a backup several weeks old, so docs and emails and photos and etc. would be gone. This thread might interest you: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=164175.

    Pete,
    As long as you’re a kid at heart, what else matters?

    John,
    Now I’m old at 50+ because I remember American Bandstand? Sheesh.

    Regards all,
    CatFan
     
  25. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Well, so would I, but my wife objects unless it's platonic.

    Every time I see that QUESTION AUTHORITY bumper sticker, I say SAYS WHO?

    The truth is that I often create two partitions on systems with one drive. I usually create it after Windows is installed and make sure that it is the second partition so that just the C boot partition can be restored alone even on a new drive. I use the second partition for:

    1 Voluminous data (pictures, video, file downloads, etc.) that I don't want to back up every time I back up C because they are backed up separately,

    2. For stuff that I don't care about whether it is backed up because it is of transient interest,

    3. Acronis images of C so that they are immediately available for a quick restore if it's not convenient to have an external drive attached. An example is my notebook when traveling.

    Everything else is on C in one place where it can be backed up with one TI image that is as small as practical but still provide a guaranteed bootable image.

    Now, if that's what that old MVP told you, he was absolutely right. :)
     
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