Can BING do this?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by ChairmanMeow, Jan 5, 2007.

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  1. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    Hi,

    I've been reading the forums for the last couple of days and I kept reading the virtues of BING (BootIt Next Generation) from one poster (can't find his ID now, something like bullit?) who was adament that IFW/IFD was not needed as BING can backup and restore partitions.

    Now, I've read the manual for BING (as much as I could understand!) and watched the videos on the TeraByte web site and, I think, I can see the point he was getting at.

    At the moment, I only have a 74G disk with 2 partitions. A recovery partition and a system partition (C:\).

    I'm buying a second internal disk and an external USB 2.0 disk.

    It occurred to me that I could do the following:

    1. Have two partitions on the new internal drive the same size as the system partition (C:\).
    2. Use BING to copy the HD0 system partition (C:\) to both of these two new partitions. One to be used as a backup of my main OS and the second to use if and when I want to try out something that may be a bit dangerous.
    3. When I want to try out something iffy I use BING to boot into the partition on the second drive (leaving the original partition intact).
    4. After I have played around with this partition and am happy that all will be OK I use BING to boot back to my original OS in partition 2 on HD0.

    To me, this seems better than backing up the HD0 partition (C:\), messing around and, if all has gone pear shaped, retore the HD0 partition (with all the risks entailed if it does not work). After all, I've had PCs for over 12 years and never had to restore the system partition. Unless I have to, I don't want to - incase it fails.

    Can someone who uses BING confirm that I can do this as I suggest?

    Unless I've misunderstood what BING can do, for my purposes, it's all I require and I won't need IFW/IFD. I use Genie Backup Manager for individual file backup.
     
  2. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    Ah, it was FurBalli who was keen on BING.

    I suppose bullit was near enough for my advanced years! I must have been thinking of Steve McQueen.
     
  3. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    Yes BING should be enough for your needs. However, a new version of IFW/IFD/IFL is due to be released soon which support differential backups (ie. only backup the changes made since a previous backup) and password protected backups.

    If you don't need this then BING is an excellent solution.
     
  4. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    @chairman meow

    Disclaimer: I am unashamed booster of Terabyte and FDISR
    Correct; But:Bing is more partition management and multiboot manager. Imaging with BING needs same size partition to restore to.

    This is of course absolutely possible. There may be better options.

    Having 2 or three similar/identical boot options sort of defeats the purpose of BING.
    If you have borked the "iffy playground" partition then you would need to do a full restore from another image or copy partition across.

    If you really want to expand your options re having multiple boot options into a baseline system but with different configs, and very quick restores, look at FDISR, (Rollback: which I dont really trust, but has strong support here). FDISR also may not provide absolutely sandox across the different bootable set-ups. BING, IFW,IFD work well with FDISR:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=140271
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=133283
    There have been a couple of threads where users have set-up FDISR as a multiboot ,manager: see here to install fresh os. There may be difficulties with the Vista boot manager.
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=120412
    FDISR ime has been a solid gold software pick. :thumb:

    The other option I have come to regard as a tremendous tool, (heh Been around a lot longer than I knew about it) and is a standard utility for devs testers, malware investigators is VMWare; I am no expert at this just learning:http://www.vmware.com/overview/home.html
    Have (depending on space) MANY options :D

    See here: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=157504
    This is a great thread re VMWare and FDISR.

    BING will also boot with VMWare for partition management and imaging.
    Bing and IFW/IFD are able to image a partition on a VM host that includes the VM. If you really want to FDISR can actually be installed into a VM, but probably better in my very limited experience to have FDISR on the host

    There are a couple of other very good save and restore options ( no boot or partition management) if you want to check them out:
    Drive Snapshot: http://www.drivesnapshot.de/en/index.htm
    I always found the restores a bit tricky.
    ShadowProtect: http://www.storagecraft.com/solutions/protect/
    Has a lot of support here and grnxnhm posts here frequently on their behalf.

    In the interests of fairness Acronis has strong support: never used it cant comment at all.

    almost too many options !!! ; good luck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2007
  5. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    You beat me to it!!!:)
     
  6. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Heh :thumb:
    Dont get me wrong, I think BING/IFW/IFD and Copywipe are some of the best softs ever.
    I am a single partition guy.

    What you were initially proposing is rocksolid.
    The combo of multiple bootable partitions is good.
    I personally do somewhat the same but as an extra have FDISR on my 'C' drive and have sandboxie on every partition.
    ShadowuserPro is another way cool option for testing and restoring OR keeping any changes.

    I'm just getting to grips with VMWare.

    Terabyte imaging files are my ultimate fall back.

    All the toys can get a bit exxy !$$!.
    Heh: with all these "options" disc space can be a bit tight even with the current +/-240 odd gb discs.

    Peter2150 has some how !! managed to break a restore with IFW in a VM:
    see posts #127 &128
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=157504&page=6

    The new version of Terabyte tools will hopefully be out soon and may support differential images. No doubt it will good when it comes.
    Heh:typical terabyte fanfare: 3 lines in the news group. lol

    :)
     
  7. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    Another question for a BING expert. I'm new to partitions etc so bear with me. This is a follow on from the scenario in my OP.

    Suppose I have the following setup on a 2 internal drive system.

    HD 0 with the following primary partitions:

    1. Recovery
    2. System (C:\)

    HD 1 with the following primary partitions

    1. System Copy (for recovery) - i.e. copy of HD 0 partition 2.
    2. System Copy (for playing/testing) - also a copy of HD 0 partition 2 initially.

    Normally, I will boot using HD 0 partition 2.

    When I want to play/test, I want to boot using HD 1 partition 2 after copying HD 0 partition 2 to it. I'm not interested in the contents of this partition after I've finished.


    As I understand it, using BING, I can make HD 1 - partition 2 the active partition and boot using that partition (after changing boot.ini to reflect the new disk/partition). When Win XP boots it will not see HD 1 partition 1. This is exactly what I want.


    However, I also want to ensure that, when I boot into Win XP on HD 1 it also cannot see any partitions on HD 0. This will ensure that there is no way that any data on HD 0 can be touched while I'm messing about.

    Is this possible? That is, can I mark the partitions on HD 0 as 'hidden' in some way?






    If this is not possible, I thought I could rearrange my partitions as follows.

    HD 0 with the following primary partitions:

    1. Recovery
    2. System (C:\)
    3. System Copy (for playing/testing) - i.e. copy of HD 0 partition 2.

    HD 1 with the following partitions

    1. (Primary) System Copy (for recovery) - i.e. copy of HD 0 partition 2.
    2. Extended partitions for any data (D:,E: etc.).


    From my understanding, in this configuration, as only one primary partition can be active at any time on HD 0 it is impossible for the other primary partitions on HD 0 to be seen when Win XP boots from either partition thus protecting the original system partition. This is exactly what I want.


    In this scenario, I still want HD 1 partition 1 to be 'hidden' in some way so that it is not seen by Windows XP and cannot be modified.



    The second scenario seems simpler but, my current C:\ drive is almost full and would require me to move data off it if I had to reduce its size by half to get two partitions on it.


    In both scenarios, I must ensure that HD 1 partition 1 is hidden so that no OS can ever 'see' it. This partition will only ever be used by BING if a recovery is needed.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
  8. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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  9. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    Thanks Longboard. It seems it can do what I want.

    No worries there. I've ordered a 320G external drive to do this before I start!
     
  10. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    :thumb:
    OOI, the support is excellent: even if you are noy registered user terabyte will reply to e-mails.
    The newsgroups here (as you probably know already) are a great help too:
    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/webnews.html

    regards.
     
  11. ChairmanMeow

    ChairmanMeow Registered Member

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    Thanks for your help and encouragement LongBoard.

    I've re-read the BING manual and downloaded the software. I'm happy with the MBR and partitions, however I feel that the manual assumes that the reader knows a lot (which, given what the software does, is understandable).

    This is all new to me.

    Initially, I'm going to take a safer approach and learn about BING with an old Win 2000 PC I have which I haven't booted up for over a year. It has 2 disks which will allow me to experiment with my scenario using Win 2000 instead of Win XP. If I trash it I don't care.
     
  12. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    No probs

    I just think the terabyte tools are terrific.
    lol, yeah, exactly. Parts of the manual look like cryllic to me. Thank (insert diety here) for the industrial strength GUI and idiot proof messages ;)

    I am no expert.
    Realistically, from your posts you are miles ahead of me to start with.
    I can point and click and follow instructions with the best :D

    I am sure the format of the tools, the addons, the install and the manual put a lot of users off. Peeps want a flash GUI. Fine go get one. I am happy just the way it is thanks.

    If you google BING it's hard to find anyone who doesn't appreciate the tools.
    I have learnt heaps from watching the vids, using the tools and hitting the newsfeed/help. I bet from some of my questions they regret ever selling me a licence. :ouch:

    Have done ~ a dozen restores, shifted partitions, resized, repartitioned, installed 2nd os, direct booted etc etc and up to now never had a problem.
    Heh: one or two heart in mouth moments :gack: but always has worked as promised.

    Also there is some great advice in the help pages about HW configs esp drivers, cards, USb drives, Ext HD, CD/DVD media and burners that will actually do what you expect.
    I seriously think of e-mailing to get advice every time I buy some add-on. lol. Really. lol.

    There is heaps of HW but only one terabyte. Heh.
    Looking forwards to V2.
    Dont hold back: get the full set : IFW/IFL/IFD as well.

    My pick for software of my year FDISR and Terabyte. :D

    Sounds Great.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  13. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    @Longboard. I did have a close look at Bing for imaging only, but when I saw it requiring Embr I panicked as I already use FDR a lot! I couldnt risk disrupting FDR and I was out of my depth with EMBR.
     
  14. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    @kennyboy
    BING can be run (booted into) from floppy or cd, does not need to be installed for most functions.

    the EMBR is only needed for BING, when installed,to have control for bootmanagement.
    I previously had installed BING as per instructions, but found that I had little uses for most of the functionality after testing what I could. I now run from floppy when I need to.

    From the KB:
    As noted, to my perception, the primary uses for BING is as boot manager/partition management.
    The imaging comes for free ;)

    As noted many times: IFW does not mess with the MBR, (unless you tell it too) IE: will not disturb FDISR
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=133283

    I saw you were having problems with USB 1.1 connectors.
    There are some HW configs where any imaging tools may have problems.
    Try support again or post in the newsgroups: dont have to register.

    AFAICT the USB 2 aspect is a done deal with Terabyte.
    You may have to get a PCI card for USB 2, I think I read somewhere they recommended NEC cards. ASk Terabyte re HW recommendations.
    You'd be better off with USB 2 anyway.

    BUT: I see HAN had no trouble: just ssllooww. :)

    HTH
    regards
     
  15. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    LOL! Thanks for that...........and you think YOU don't know a lot. Doesnt say much for me.......LOL

    Defenestration has been trying to help regarding the USB 1.1/2.0 problem by suggesting that I use the IF/Linux disk as it apparently gives support to PCMCIA cards, but it wont run here. Gives me a message about not finding the Linus O/S or something like that.

    Interesting what you say about Bing can be run from the boot disk only. I rely on FDR sooooooo much (due to my ahem...."experimental nature") that I was scared to play with the MBR, but obviously I didnt understand that EMBR is not the same.
    Do you think that the Bing imaging is actually IFW/IFD wrapped up inside a bigger utility for disk management? If it is, the imaging on my setup is likely to be the same slowwwww result.
    I will persue the IF/Linux thing in case I can get it to work and maybe get a more acceptable result eventually. Relying on ATI makes me VERY nervous...

    With regard to getting a PCI card, it is just soooo difficult if not impossible to get ANYTHING for a laptop here. (Philippines) It is about 2years behind everywhere else in getting up to date specs, and to get replacement parts....non-existent. Hence me being stuck with USB 1.1 in a comp only 3 years old.
    If I can get the IF/Linux boot disk to work with everyones help, then I will certainly try Bing or maybe just stick with IFW/IFD. Sure I will be back with more questions anyway.
    Grateful for your help.
     
  16. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    BING inaging more like IFD with easier interface. Can be slower than IFW.
    .Sounds tricky
    ?mail order dell
    Might not be easy getting new PCI into laptop depending on m'facturer?
    Good luck.
    Do you have cable?
    Even with DU; This may be an option: online storage
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=160553
    Good luck.
     
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