Brand new to True Image Home 11 - system state?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by CarolW, Dec 16, 2007.

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  1. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    I downloaded True Image Home 11 yesterday (dial-up!) - installed today (free trial) Made a Rescue CD. Then did a full image backup of my working drive, C - running Windows XP, SP2, fully updated, NTFS.

    To my amazement I discovered I can explore the files and folders using my file manager, PowerDesk6. I restored a file I'd purposely deleted, just by copying it with PowerDesk.

    I dumped Norton Ghost because IT installed its own Anti-Virus stuff without telling me it had; that created conflicts with my AVG Anti-Virus (now Internet Security) - never KNEW I had Norton's ccAPP running on my system.

    So I'm looking for a program to replace Ghost, and I think I found it! Acronis!

    BUT - I ran the full backup, believing it included the System state along with the files and folders - but did it? I see the yellow warning screen (traffic light) that says I need to back up the System State. Is that a separate backup, then?

    I'm REALLY tight on disk space - a lot of programs, a lot of data; I use C for everything.

    I have two internal drives: C and D, each Western Digital, each 80 GB, one external, Western Digital, 120 GB, it's Drive F. All formattd with NTFS. Also DVD-RW, drive E. I use D and F for backups, many are just copies of files, mostly on F. I also have old backups by PCBackup (StompSoft) on F, and I'm thinking of restoring those to D, and then picking them up with Acronis True Image Home 11, and putting them back on F in that form, and then I could uninstall PCBackup and save some space.

    Each of these hard disks, C, D and F, are formatted as single partitions (NTFS)

    Not the most efficient, I guess, but I don't know how to organize the fancy stuff- I could do it, but not organize it well.

    So, my essential question right now is, do I need to do a separate System State backup?

    Thanks! (pardon my wordiness - I have trouble explaining, and have had very little sleep, that makes it worse).

    Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:18:31 PST
  2. Earthling

    Earthling Registered Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    You can ignore that System State warning. It does not record the fact that you have done a manual backup. Only when using scheduled backups does System State update itself.
  3. bodgy

    bodgy Registered Member

    Sep 22, 2005
    And even then, with some schedules it takes a week before it updates itself.

    The system state banner, is a new fangled and somewhat pointless frill to TI 11. It just tells you your scheduled task(s) have run, it has nothing to do with your actual windows are harddrive state.

  4. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Hey, thanks, people, for your replies!

    So now I understand about the warnings and the "traffic light" relating only to scheduled backups, of which I have done, and plan none, since I always do that stuff manually.

    I'm generally disoriented with the relative complexity of this program. I'll learn in time, with practice and your help! I'll have quite a few questions, I'm sure!

    Because, in just one day of use, I've pretty well decided this is the program for me.

    Sun, 16 Dec 2007 07:29:17
  5. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    A comment which you are free to ignore. The smallest unit of data an image understands is a partition. So if you are imaging as opposed to a Files and Folders backup you have to deal with a partition. Yours are rather unwieldy at least from the perspective of having a OS/Apps backup that can made and restored quickly. Also, the smaller the image the less chance for something to go wrong and the better speed means you are more likely to make images rather than put it off.

    IMO, it is good to partition your drive so the OS and Applications are on C by themselves. Keep the important data on a different partition(s) or physical drives. This way you can blow away and restore the C partition at anytime without worrying about your personal data.

    Some people move the My Documents folder structure to a different partition as well. I have my own data file structure and only use My Documents as a scratch area for unimportant stuff that I don't care if I lose.

    I leave copies of my email on the ISP's server so it functions as an email backup.

    Just some ideas for you to consider.
  6. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    I have multiple and detailed questions about all this. Is this the right forum for questions like this, or if not, where should I take these questions?

    Unwieldy doesn't even begin to describe the mess! Under DOS, I used to partition my hard drives this way - several logical drives, in extended partitions. Maybe this is the time for me to bite the bullet and do the job. That would surely mean reinstalling Windows from scratch, a job of about six weeks total for me, working just about full-time, and triple-time when I begin, to install and update Windows from scratch. I guess I'd reformat Drives C and D, the two internal drives, making any necessary logical drives on those. I'm not sure what I should do on the external drive, F (120 GB) - which holds all my most crucial backups.

    I need to imagine the effects of doing this, and decide what would go onto my "logical drive" C (Primary Master), and what needs to be on a different physical drive (currently, D, Primary Slave). Obviously, the operating system has to be on the Primary Master. So what else would I put on that drive - Program Files? And - Documents and Settings, Application Data - how would that fit in there? I guess if I dedicate Documents and Settings to Application Data, and store all my personal data in some other location (folders, files), as I believe you are suggesting, then I could put the OS, and Documents and Settings, and Program Files, on the first drive (C, currently Parsley) - and put other stuff - what sort? on logical drives in the extended partition on the Primary Master?

    I rather like that idea, and already use it partly, but since I last reinstalled Windows, a little over a year ago, I've been using My Documents almost exclusively for storing stuff.

    I REALLY like that idea, but don't have enough space on my ISP's server to store the masses of email archives I prefer to keep and use as reference. It's amazing, how often I use these older archives. I might need to re-think that, too, as I have about 9 GB tied up in those.

    How deeply I appreciate your comments and suggestions! I think I REALLY need to do this! The work is daunting, especially at the same time I care for two dogs, both elderly, one diabetic - on a very strict and tight schedule - using a calendar program with alarms to help me - would have to do without that one for a few days; might manage it, ha! And I'd have to do the work when storms don't threaten to cut off electrical power for five days, as they did last winter (ha - big sob story!)

    STILL, I think I will DO THIS! so where do I go to ask for help with details?

    Thanks! - and again, apologies for length! - and location of my initial questions. Once I get under way, True Image Home 11 would get a BIG workout, as I keep backing up the changes - likely, in new images, rather than incremental or differential - don't know right now - maybe differential, if I have enough space on my external drive.

    Preparing for this change would itself be masses of work. It all has to be done on no more than pennies, as the medical costs for my dogs are already beyond me, but somehow, I scrape it up.

    THANKS for your comments, which will undoubtedly have me doing this work, to save my computer and my brain! That is, once it's all done!

    Well - I just realized; perhaps I should use a Files and Folders backup instead of an Image backup, to prepare? Because I'd be reinstalling the OS, but before that, re-formatting each hard drive - that is, the internal ones; I doubt I'd do that to the external one, unless I could store its backups on the internal ones in the interim.

    Would I use True Image for that, or my old PCBackup?

    Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:12:52 PST
  7. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    We seem to get a bit of slack with this type of question since if somewhat pertains to how to use TI. However, we'll find out if the moderator's object.

    Leave the external alone. All it needs is a reasonable folder structure (if necessary) so you can find things.

    Put the OS and installed applications on C. The apps are so tightly tied to the OS via the registry and other settings written onto the C drive when installed that it is a liability to put them elsewhere. You would then have to backup 2 partitions to capture any application changes if the apps were installed elsewhere. You can then put any data files such as jpgs, mpgs, spreadsheets, letters, etc in any other partition or physical drive.


    9GB! Wow! You might look at if your email lets you put the email files in a different location so they are off C.

    Try here.

    Have you done a restore to a spare HD? Until you have done a restore you don't really know if the backup program will work on your system. TI uses a Linux environment to restore the active partition and sometimes it chokes on some HW combinations.

    Both, if you are going to do your important data files, until you are convinced TI works well on your system - see above.

    To save some time you might get away with:
    Make good backups of all your data on the physical drive C is on.
    Delete your data files so you are only left with the OS and applications and anything else you want on C such as mail.
    Make an image of C which now contains few data files.
    Restore C to the drive but tell TI in the restore wizard to limit the size of the C partition to 20GB or whatever you think appropriate. The size will depend on how many apps you have installed and whatever stuff you left on the drive. AFAIK, TI should then create the smaller partition and leave the remainder as unallocated space which you then partition and format using Windows Disk Management tools.
    Put your data files back into the new partition(s).
  8. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Okay. I think True Image will be heavily involved throughout. I DO need to test more than restoring a single file, first! And do it with True Image, not PowerDesk.

    Okay; that's not a problem.

    That's great information; thanks!

    If I understand right, then, that would include, for Drive C (the boot drive):

    - The OS
    - Documents and Settings (includes all Application Data, and My Documents)
    - Program Files

    I think that does it. I could estimate the size these three take up by taking sizes on those directories, and then adding for overhead for a bit of other stuff, or expansion with updates or adding programs.

    Except for one program (a copy of Eudora 6 registered to a friend for whom I try to support it), all my programs are in C:\Program Files. And I could always reinstall that thing and put it bsck in Program Files; might be a good idea to do that.

    Yes; Eudora allows data files anywhere, at least, on an internal drive.

    If you had a URL there, I can't see it!

    Uh, oh; no; I haven't. But I just prepared my physical Drive D to allow me to try that (by copying all its crucial stuff to my external drive). I also uninstalled a program I'm not using, to reduce occupied space on C, pared down My Documents as much as I could, and deleted photos and installers from C (making sure I had them on the external drive). Managed to reduce used space by about 10 GB, which will help on my next backup to the external drive.

    Right now, I feel very tight on that drive, as I have 67.8 GB used, 43.9 GB free, on it. With C now at 28.6 used, 45.9 free, I'm hoping I can KEEP the backup I made yesterday, and add a second one to the external drive! I had spent half the day thinking I only had room for one image of C on the external drive, but since I got rid of 10 GB from Drive C, maybe I can do it. How much work space is needed on the destination drive?

    Yes; I think I follow okay.

    The first question that occurs to me is, suppose I restore a full image file of my current Drive C, from external drive RoseLily to current physical Drive D (Sage). Would I be prompted to make a partition active? Surely I can't make D's "OS" active, since that's the Primary Slave drive, not the Primary Master. Now we get into BIOS and CMOS stuff. The worst is, that I have an awful time switching the physical drives in my box. The bracket doesn't fit too well, seems a bit bent, and my hands are like me - old, scrawny, though with my rope-like arms, I can hold 40 pounds of two lunging, barking dogs on-leash, when need be (haha) But I can't get that drive bay out of the machine easily, and I find it even harder to get it back IN - what should take me two minutes takes hours of repeated efforts! And I get very bruised forearms.

    As I see it, then, my next task, now that I've done a basic clean-up, is to back up what's on C now (that will include stuff I won't put back on a smaller C later), and then try to restore that backup to physical drive D, and see what happens!

    However, I won't be able to test that drive (currently the Primary Slave) by changing it so it's the Primary Master - because I don't have the physical strength in my hands to switch the drives around in the drive bay!

    So the last bit - making it the boot drive, will be impossible for me. Which means, really, I won't know if restoring the boot files will actually work!

    Which in turn means I might have to reinstall Windows from scratch, after all, but at least I'd have my data backed up, assuming the restore to physical drive D, currently the Primary Slave, completes without errors.

    Your next suggestion REALLY appeals to me. I'd have to put two full backups on my external drive first. one that includes the "extraneous" folders and files I have now on C, but will later put on some other logical drive. Then I could delete those from my current Drive C, and make the second backup.

    Luckily, I don't need mail on C. My data folders for mail can go anywhere on an internal drive.

    I LOVE THIS IDEA! If the restore of the OS goes well, I guess that means I wouldn't have to re-install Windows, nor my programs; is that right?

    I really hope this works. I won't count on it. If it doesn't work, could I reformat the physical drive C, partition it at that time with at least one other logical drive in an extended partition, and then re-install Windows, and then, use my backup to restore folders and files to the logical drive in the extended partition? (that would presumably end up as a new drive D).

    Also, I get confused about who (or which program) calls the disks what!

    So, I think True Image Home calls the first Disk, Disk 1 - but I've seen it called Disk 0, too; I can't remember where! Maybe the it's the Windows Disk management software? I must set up a bunch of labels for the drives; I'll retain my current ones, Parsley, Sage, and RoseLily, and call my boot drive Parsley, but if I have a new logical drive D on that same physical drive, I'll use some other name for that one. Then the first partition on my second physical hard drive, I'll call Sage again, and find another name if I partition that drive, say, into two logical drives (that's what would probably make most sense to do.

    If I disappear for quite some time without returning to ask more questions, you can assume I'm re-installing Windows! Whichever way things go, I know I'll have a LOT of fixes to do - changing drive letters in path references in various places.

    If I understand you right, it would save me from having to reinstall Windows from scratch! Would it also save me from having to reinstall all my programs?

    Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:33:08
  9. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Brand new to True Image Home 11 - restore order?


    I pared down the content of my single-partition Drive C (WD 80 GB); got content down a lot; and cleared off my single-partition physical Drive D (WD, 80 GB) both formatted with NTFS (originally). My external WD 120 GB (NTFS) now has about 20 GB free - that's tight! (I backed stuff up to there).

    So, I can keep one or two backups of current C on the external drive, as long as I have the .tib file no bigger than about 20 GB..

    How much work-space does TI-11 require in order to back up to the external drive?

    I'm using the free trial, installed 15 December.

    I remarked yesterday that I cannot change the drives around in the bay - I could eventually do that if I time it right so my buddy can be here, but it would be a one-time thing.

    So here's what I plan - initial test (incomplete), followed by a real attempt to restore to Disk 1, and pray it boots.

    1) Restore the .tib to D. Do I just use the restore menu?

    2) AVOID making D the boot drive - can't boot off the Primary Slave! (and can't, myself, change the drives)

    So I can't really do a full test, but I CAN find out if the Restore operation APPEARS to be all right (TI 11 reports success, and I can look at the drive with my file manager).

    2) When I do the restore, I propose to "change the drive size," to, say, 20 GB (I'd better study that, to allow for work-space in case, later, I need to reinstall Windows from scratch, and to allow for later program expansion).

    Then could I use the Windows Disk Management software to format the unallocated space on Disk 2 into another logical drive in the extended partition? Well, in the end, I could re-format the physical Disk 2 anyway! (if it's still called Disk 2 - it seems TI-11 calls it Disk 2). (I have a feeling the Windows software calls them Disk 0 and Disk 1, respectively, but I can't remember).

    3) If the restore appears okay, I could then do the same operation to Disk 1, physical Drive C - and - pray hard! - that it will boot!

    If it won't boot, I'm not sure what I should do then. Presumably at least the data is present. Should I first try allocating the unallocated space to a second logical drive? (format the unallocated space)? Or should I proceed to reinstall Windows from scratch while that space remains unallocated? I don't think I like THAT idea!

    And I'm not sure my question even makes sense!

    Looks as though I'd have to reinstall Windows from scratch. I'd then be tempted to reformat the drive first, and partition Disk 1 into two logical drives, before reinstalling Windows from scratch; then I could also re-format Disk 2. I'd likely split that one, also, into two logical drives of under 40 GB each.

    My external drive will remain as is.

    If I end up having to re-install Windows - a real possibility, can I then restore from that .tib file to the now-different-size C - SELECTIVELY? I'd think so, by using Folders and Files.

    On a restore to logical Drive C, I guess I'd have to specify "overwrite older files only," right?

    That should restore everything, selectively, to any logical drive I specify at the time of restore; is that right? Without ending up with "funny" drive letters, like, "D:\C:\EudoraMailArchive?

    You can see, I don't know how to go about this!

    If I have to re-install Windows, I assume that as soon as Windows is reinstalled and fully updated, THEN I should restore Folders and Files, and overwrite older files ONLY - to get application data in place for programs not yet reinstalled.

    Does that sound right?

    At what stage do I do what?

    I foresee a LONG and fairly arduous hassle with the re-assigning of drive letters (and drive labels), as I change from having three physical drives, each formatted as a single partition, to having the two internal drives formatted into two logical drives each, with Disk 1 (C) as the boot drive of course, D (on Disk 1) for some data, Disk 2 with E (more data) and F (still more data), and probably the DVD-RW should be G, because the external drive won't always be attached and running, so it would become H.

    Am I making any sense? I'm reading other theads here, too, and note the many problems with TI 11. My decision to buy will depend on how it behaves on my system, but I might lose several days, re-partitioning, and possibly, re-installing Windows.

    It's very much worth it to me (sez I, before I start), to put in this effort to get a better structure for efficiency, not only of backups, but for other purposes as well.

    Anticipating I'll likely have to re-install Windows, I'm trying to be as well-prepared as possible

    Thanks in advance for any additional help!

    Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:40:35 PST
  10. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - restore order?

    For a normal drive, that is one with not many already compressed files such as jpg,mpg, zip etc, you will get to around 70% of the used space of a partition when you make an image. Note that TI doesn't backup the pagefile or a hibernation file if it exists.

    THis probably is a reasonable test even though you can't see if it boots. However, TI will usually choke on validating or restoring rather than the booting.
    This will give you a chance to try this and see if it works for you.
    Go into Windows Disk Mangement and see what they are called. I think you have done it, but make sure your partitions all have labels on them that mean something to you. The reason for this is that during the restore of an active partition or anytime the Linux environment is used such as from the boot CD, the drive letters may be different from the Windows letters. This is because Linux uses a different method of assigning lettters. If the partitions are labelled then you know which partition you are dealing with even if the letter is strange.

    Yes, to be prepared you might want to Google about using XP's repair console which you enter by booting your XP CD.
    If the restore worked and it is just not bootable, then the data will be present. There is no point formatting the other partition until you get the disk to boot unless you need to write something in the other partition.

    As much as anything does :D .

    This is your fallback position since you have your datafiles well backed up!!! Windows and anything else can always be reinstalled (if you didn't lose them) and it is just a loss of time and even a good re-learning exercise. Its the personal data files that are the ones you can't lose.

    If you have an image backup you can extract files from it by Mounting the image or I believe with Windows Explorer. Look in the TI User Guide for info on this. With a Files and Folders (FF) backup you will use the FF restore wizard and may well be asked for permission to overwrite an existing file.

    You shouldn't end up with drive letters like that but I never use Files and Folders backup. I only image my C drive. If you care, my datafile backups are done by copying the files in their native format to a different location.

    You actually have an understanding of what needs to happen.
    You should install Windows, update it and make an image. Install the apps you want and then make another image. The idea is to create an image at a convenient place so if something goes wrong you can restore without having to back to the beginning.
    I would restore the data at the last stage. Whether or not to restore application data is an interesting question. If you do restore the old stuff you shouldn't have to do as much setup but possibly run the risk of something not matching the current installation.

    Just make sure you have meaningful labels. You can put some in that make sense for this setup and change them later if you no longer like them. Labels can be changed in the Properties screen of Windows Explorer. To start, what about:
    C - OS and Apps (11 characters max)
    D - Disk1 Data
    E - Disk2 Data1
    F - Disk2 Data2
    This gives you a physical picture of the layout as well as the type of content.

    Do not worry about the drive letters until you get it all setup other than make sure C is assigned C in Windows. You can change all the other drive letters in Windows Disk Management but you can't change C. This also assumes you don't install any programs to a partition other than C or setup any directory pointers to another logical drive and then change the letters (you would have to change the pointer). By directory pointer I'm referring to a reference in an app for some purpose such as where to put the buffer file for a CD burning program. They normally default to C and also usually in the Documents and Settings area.

    Some:D . Another test you can do right of the mark is to boot up the TI rescue CD you created and see if you can validate an image on your USB drive. If you can this means TI can find, properly read and validate the image. If you can't do this, you are going nowhere with TI until the problem is corrected.

    Not the end-of-the-world but be more positive!
  11. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - restore order

    By "restore order" in the title, I meant order of restoring from the backup (.tib file) - but the pun is so APT I'm just cracking up!

    Because restoring order to my system is what I'm about to do.

    SeekForever, I am infinitely grateful for the time and careful attention you're giving my questions. You write stuff I can understand; ha!

    I'm going to try to reply without quoting this time, and summarize instead, because I think I've come to a decision that will require a lot of my time and careful attention, too, of course, but also, should assure the ultimate in safety and in trouble-free operations after I finish all the work.

    So, I've copied your reply to a text file I can bring up to make sure I don't miss anything crucial (I hope). My attention is flagging, after so little sleep, three nights in a row; yesterday having been a 25-hour day for me (typical computer-stuff!)

    First, thanks for the workspace information.

    Here are my new plans. I WILL reinstall Windows from scratch, because I AM well backed-up. (I hope!)

    I can find out, though, because I'll start by restoring the disk image to Disk 2 instead of Disk 1! If all goes well with that, I'm in business.

    Then I'd make sure I have any file copies made (any late email, for instance, that I bring in, before starting the reinstall). and any of the little text files I use to document for myself.

    Then to get a fresh surface, I'll start the re-install, and format Disk 1 (in TI terminology) and then Disk 2 - all backups being on the external drive.

    So I can partition the drives at the same time. Thanks so much for your Drive label tips! That's a BIG help, because though I'm mulling over names, your DESCRIPTIVE names are clearly the answer.

    Also, I'll test my Boot CD, and see if it will validate my .tib file. If it won't, I'll have some thinking to do!

    Like you, I plan never to use Files and Folders backup; always a full image - because I can copy a file from that, even using PowerDesk instead of Windows Explorer. Might be wise to use the native Windows Explorer, though, to start with; I'll do that, as I won't have PowerDesk installed yet!

    After I get really going, THEN I might look at incremental and differential backups also; not for now, though; not till after all the repartitioning is done, and Windows, my apps, and data are back.

    Do you think 20 GB is a big enough logical Drive C to handle the many, many programs I use, and to allow for more? Including the huge mess Windows XP makes when you first install it; haha?

    I'm thinking too of Nero Burning Rom (v. 6), which is what I use to burn CDs. I also use its InCD, but I disable that from loading, using WinPatrol.exe, unless I'm about to use it; I don't use it often but when I do, I need it!

    So this time, I have that single question - do you think 20 GB will do me, for Windows XP2, SP2, and Microsoft Office 2000?

    Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:48:02 PST
  12. rwt325

    rwt325 Registered Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    Strasburg VA
    I think Acronis requires free space on a C drive to be larger than the compressed size of the C image you want to restore to the C drive.

    In my experience, XP/SP2 system, C image was 11-13GB, just system and program files, absolutely no data files. I could not restore that image unless I had at least 15GB free space on C. A warning came up, something like "Not enough space on drive C, choose another drive for restoration".
  13. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Ouch; ouch; well; I understand! I plan to put Windows, Documents and Settings, and Program Files all on C, as SeekForever suggested, to make sure they don't have trouble finding each other.

    Right now, I'm really pared down; it's possible I'd want to install some HUGE program later. I prefer to avoid that if possible - but sometimes, you have to take what you can get! Maybe I'll just split Disk 1 in half; that might be safest.

    So, around 38 GB for Drive C; that SHOULD give me plenty of workspace, even if I install some huge program later. (Yeah; who needs more than 64K of RAM?)

    Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:09:04
  14. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Yes,it obviously has to have enough room for the uncompressed data.
    There is no easy one-size answer for this one unless you just pick a big number and say that will do it for everyone.

    I'm running one PC that XP and some typical apps are installed on and the C drive space is under 7GB. There is probably around 350MB of unimportant data files on C. A second machine with some other apps is around 9GB with probably about the same amount of unimportant data files on it. In both cases my C drive is partitioned at 15GB. So in my case 20-30GB is more than enough.
  15. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - restore order

    My PC with the 9GB used for C has:
    XP with SP2 installed (not the files from the CD)
    Corel Paintshop Pro
    Corel Office
    Microsoft FrontPage
    3 music score editing programs
    2 photomanagement programs
    Adobe Reader
    TurboCad CAD program
    PGP encryption
    Nero 7 Ultra
    Spyware and Anti-virus
    3 Video editing/Wave file editing programs
    Acronis True Image
    and a bunch of other utilities and things I don't remember are even on the machine.

    You are better to go a bit big rather than a bit small and have to do it all over again. You can get an idea of how much space you need by doing the properties on the Program Files folders and other folders that will be on C and totalling the space. Then double it as a first approximation.
  16. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - Order Restored!

    I have one question still; see the bottom of this post.

    I am REELING with fatigue - so little sleep - for several daze!

    But TI 11 (Home) came through like a champ for me! I'll come back to go into details after a few more daze!

    I thought I'd WRITTEN DOWN my password for these forums, but I can't find where I wrote that down. My Roboform, on re-installation, thought I wasn't registered. Besides, it got corrupted at one point while I reinstalled Windows, and chkdsk fixed it, but apparently lost my Roboform registration.

    So I reactivated my Roboform registration - but STILL I couldn't get my password for thse forums. So this time, I went and restored from the original backup (ONE backup) I'd made before beginning the reorganization of my hard disks (including re-formatting) - and used restore files and folders, and got my Roboform back, with all the data.

    I also used the Rescue disk twice in tests; it restored from a backup of my newly streamlined Drive C, to Drive E (Disk 1, partition 2) - looked like a good restore. I didn't push it, because I'm too tired, and wasn't going to try to boot from that partition anyway, but it looked just fine.

    I see from other forum messages how buggy this thing is, but it likes my system, which is a very standard sort of system; maybe that's why. Also, I try not to do anything "fancy," which is why I went to all the trouble to reinstall Windows from scratch (using dial-up for updates). (I did have trouble downloading updates, and will explain that later - I know why I had trouble.)

    QUESTION: oops - I'm so tired I can't remember my question, so will have to come back later to ask it.

    But I want you all to know that EVERY post in which you offered assistance was helpful to me while I reinstalled Windows. Your information was just great. It's long past time that I should have done this job, and the results are wonderful; my system is much happier now, and I am, too!

    Incidentally, I started the work as a babe of 70, and completed the essentials as a full adult of 71 (haha) I do think I've aged a year in the last two days, so I'm off to get my beauty sleep, again with huge thanks.

    Back in a day or two (lots to do that ain't computer-stuff in the next couple of daze).

    Thu, 20 Dec 2007 00:27:07 PST
  17. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - Happy System!

    With less sleep than ever, and now the full version of True Image 11 Home, my system is very, very happy.

    I'm not a computer-sort-of-person, but must learn because there's only me to care for my system. My fabulous dealer (over 20 years now) has always taught me well, which helps me recognize the excellence of suggestions made to me here (SeekForever), as well as help from others - so I knew it was right to partition my two 80 GB hard drives.

    Since I probably would have had to reinstall Windows from scratch anyway, that was the right time to partition each of the two internal drives.

    The downloading trouble I mentioned occurred when apparently in one of the Windows updates, it turned its firewall on even though I had AVG's firewall running. It did tell me I should only run one firewall, but I couldn't figure out how to turn off the Windows one before it sent me the Security Center in Service Pack 2. So apparently, for a time, I had two firewalls running. I had WinPatrol.exe installed, but hadn't yet upgraded it. I've since done so, and that shows me something about which process(ss?) are involved with the Windows firewall.

    Sometimes I'm really slow; finally I figured out how to find out - but I couldn't do it without the Security Center to tell me what's going on. When I did finally get that, with Service Pack 2, I went offline, turned off the AVG firewall, and looked at the Windows Security Center, which told me the firewall was ON. Therefore, it must have been the Windows firewall that was on.

    So I turned it off, and then turned the AVG one back on. Then the Security Center identified the firewall running as the one by Grisoft (AVG).

    Maybe you'd be amused at this - I used Firefox to download my full version of True Image 11 Home. I lost 78 MB of the 137 MB download when apparently my ISP rebooted a server, and I lost my connection. (I mentioned that to Support, and suggested providing a download manager for people like me - you know, the primitive dial-up kind! I just took a deep breath and began the download all over again.

    Finally it all arrived. In Firefox, in the Download window, I "removed" the "Failed" download (I could see it in my file manager, with an extension of .part). Then I went looking for the full installer file.

    It wasn't there. PANIC! - Had I pushed a wrong button and DELETED it? Right after it completed?

    Then I thought, "try right-click," so I right-clicked the entry in the Firefox download window, since the entry was still there, and chose Properties. Oh, my goodness; it showed the downloaded file in My Documents! Where I put .PDF files! And as I write this I think I just figured out why - I looked at the invoice, which must be a .PDF file!

    Total download time including failure was a bit over 12.5 hours. I have other things to do in life, too, right? So I copied the installer to each physical drive, and to a CDRW.

    It took me an hour to recover from the shock of that panic.

    I installed the thing right over my free trial II see in another thread, that's not recommended, but I don't see any problems; of course, I'm only using the most basic features; I don't have disk space for a Secure Zone. And my system is a very standard sort of system.

    With it installed, I made two boot disks, tested both (both booted). Then I validated my original, larger backup .tib file (from Drive C before I partitioned it into two smaller partitions). It all worked.

    Then I installed my old PCBackup by Stompsoft, which I haven't used for over a year; it's just been sitting there, because I have .nb7 backups on my external drive

    So I spent the next ten hours or so restoring those to my C, D, and E partitions (F already had several .tib backups on it). Then I uninstalled PcBackup, deleted its backups (.nb7 files) from the external drive, and used True Image to back up Selected files and folders from C, D and E (having paced them in specific, designated directories), back to my external drive, now in .tib instead of .nb7 form. (You can see my confidence as the free trial did all the work of the actual change in partition structure!) PCBackup's .nb7 files are FILE backups, not images.

    Throughout, I was watching disk space on each partition; my E got a bit full, but after I backed up the restored files to my external drive as .tibs, I deleted them from C, D and E. So now all my backups that aren't just file copies (I have quite a few of those on my external drive) are .tibs insted of being .nb7s. So I won't need PCBackup (really quite a lovely program, very reliable, even on a failing disk surface) - just as well, because to run it, you have to be in 800x600 resolution - just a bit awkward there.

    SeekForever mentioned True Image 11 chokes on some systems - hardware, I gather, as it uses Linux, or something. I never did run into drive letter problems, though I DID notice the Windows Disk Manager does indeed call the Primary Master "Disk 0" and the Primary Slave "Disk 1." But True Image calls them, respectively, Disk 1 and Disk 2. That can be confusing. I made a drawing and labeled it with the various names, and drive letters and drive labels that I assigned.

    I partitioned hard drives this way under DOS, also, and re-learned that the Primary Master, by default, holds drives C and E, and the Primary Slave, D and F.

    The external drive, I unplugged from the system before starting to reinstall Windows, to avoid any possible confusion that might risk stuff on the external drive!

    In short, the free trial behaved like a champ from the start - I had one glitch in the very beginning, which I believe resulted from some silly error I'd made. Never had another problem with it after that; on the contrary, it behaved perfectly throughout, giving me a LOT of confidence in it.

    (I have build #8053.)

    I think that ends my update report. So thanks to all of you. I'll be reading here in the forum occasionally.

    Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:36:13
  18. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Glad it worked for you with nothing more than the typical couple of "why did it do that" happenings. You did well and now you know even more about PCs than you did when you started. Glad I could be of some assistance.

    I suggest, if you haven't done so, to get the purchased version of TI and then you can keep images of your C drive and whatever else you want up to date just in case you have an unexpected disk failure or a peculiar software problem.
  19. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Brand new to True Image Home 11 - THANKS!

    Another cute story: this morning, I went to back up my first three partitions (the fourth stores backups), and this time, I set them up (for the first time) as tasks. I specified to exclude: *.bak, *.~ and *.tmp - nothing original about me; I copied those from the defaults. I watched the backups, and drive E was "done" in seconds. WHAT? Impossible. So I used "show logs."

    I had specified "*.bak, *.~, *,tmp"

    No wonder it wouldn't go! I re-did that one by hand!

    I try to stay thoroughly backed up. I did buy a license, on 21 December, and very glad to have it.

    Thanks again for your wonderful help. If you hadn't remarked on the inefficiency of my system, I might not have taken this very important step of re-partitioning the two internal drives. It was a very, very, good thing to do!

    And True Image just keeps right on working perfectly on my system!

    Mon, 24 Dec 2007 19:33:41
  20. sparkymachine

    sparkymachine Registered Member

    Dec 24, 2007
    East Lancashire, UK
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - Order Restored!

    I think we all have millions of passwords and logon id's to remember, its a pain so I like many just used the same one for everything. I now use Acerose password vault which is free, safe, and easy to use - oh and ultra secure. I never have to remember any passwords, id's, or urls and I store my bank and card details in it too, and its portable on a flash drive. Just thought I'd mention it.

    I've been really interested following this and like you I really like the product. I think TI and Disk Director have made my computing life 100% easier to maintain and manage - is as good or better as the pro stuff I used on more powerful computers.
  21. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - Order Restored!

    Hey, thanks for your post. sparkymachine! Very interesting! A friend gave me Roboform a couple of years ago, which does something similar to Acerose, except that it's not free. My Roboform had become corrupted; it got fixed by chkdsk - then I had to re-activate the program. It's working now, which is handy.

    I had one other really tough re-installation problem, with a program by Ron Grau, called Desktop Goodies. It would reinstall, but wouldn't run when I clicked on the icon, which had landed in my system tray (notification area) - not where I had always kept its icon - I had it in my QuickLaunch. Shareware author Ron Grau, for DAYS - kept writing back to me, putting up special downloads, attaching file, too, and finally, last night, I said, go get your holiday and come back when you're ready - but he wrote me once more and suggested editing the registry in a particular way - changing the value to load in the system tray from "checked" to "unchecked."

    Of course before doing that, I did a full backup with TI (now the paid version). Then I made that change - tried again installing the program - and it worked! I use it to help me schedule for my diabetic dog, so it's pretty important to me.

    So now I need to do an incremental backup, or perhaps, since I still have more stuff to do, I'll do another full one before long.

    For the first time, yesterday and this morning, I tried Scheduled Tasks. I set them for One Time Only, not sure yet if I can use those scripts again (looks as though I could). I watched the first one I ran, which had three tasks, full backup of C, files backup of D (to avoid re-copying my large email archives), and full backup of E. E, though, has a LOT of compressed files, so I set that backup not to compress.

    I got a nice surprise - set as a task, there's no full-screen display - and the backup runs quite a lot faster. Ha! Seems obvious that it would, but it was a pleasant surprise anyway.

    I seldom schedule anything on my system much ahead of time, because I never know what I'll need to do when, but I do, carefully, make sure to do all necessary maintenance jobs. Undoubtedly I'll find a way to run those scripts again; I set up alternate ones, to back up to my fourth partition on the internal drives, or to my external drive, so I get backups on two different physical drives.

    This program is right for me, because even though I'm unlikely ever to use the really fancy stuff, all the OTHER stuff is considerably better than just adequate. And so far, so good.

    Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:26:33
  22. sparkymachine

    sparkymachine Registered Member

    Dec 24, 2007
    East Lancashire, UK
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - Order Restored!

    You're very welcome:)
    I use lots of free stuff - i like free stuff:D hehe. A good way to see if you like free stuff without it doing any harm is to use it with Try&Decide turned on - new I'd find an example lol.

    Another example of when you could use Try&Decide, no backup required. T&D works by using the secure zone as a sort of virtual pc. You can apply the work you have done and changes you have made at any time. Restarting the pc without applying, discards it all.

    Incrementals are great for making sure you saved those small changes.

    I rarely shedule anything either, I always forget when I scheduled them and then I'm at a particularly difficult phase of a racing sim or something and the screen starts jerking about and I crash. Then I swear a lot, lol.

    You like it as much as I do I think. I love it.
  23. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

    May 10, 2006
    Massachusetts, USA
    SeekForever provides lots of good guidance and is to be complimented (which you did) for his extended responses to your questions. He has given you a nice Christmas present!:)

    Based on some of your comments above, a few random thoughts.

    1. Firefox can do a very acceptable job of managing passwords. Click options/Security and checkmark "Remember
    passwords.." and click "Use Master Password".

    2. It is important that you have full and complete current backups stored in multiple places. Your hard drives can fail thru a malfunction or power zap so the alternate non-attached storage is important. External drives (generally) should be connected only when in performing actual reads/writes--not 24/7. Should you use the TI "archive splitting" option, you can create DVD sized backups which can be additionally copied onto DVD from your backup storage folders.

    3. Many of us choose to maintain additional backup copies using a non-proprietary file format. The backups created by Acronis can only be utilized by Acronis. Should Acronis consider your backups as corrupt, those backups can become worthless for their intended purpose. Many of us use the simple Windows copy function to copy some of our material to a backup destination. I like to use Karen's Replicator (free for personal use) to make non-compressed copy of portions of my personal material to several alternate sources. There have been a variety of postings by others listing the non-backup programs they use to create their additional copies. Many of us simply refuse to rely on one single backup program or method.

    4. You mentioned many of your files are already compressed so TrueImage will not compress them further. There have been postings of backups failing to complete or failing to restore when the backup contents consist of files already compressed. If possible, you might want to consider copying or moving these compressed files onto your external drive or other backup media so these are not part of every backup.

    5. 40GB is not a lot of space for backup storage. Please consider replacing your 2nd drive with one having larger capacity allowing you to maintain more backups. You could additionally purchase an empty usb external enclosure and insert the old 80GB into the enclosure. This would provide even more security by spreading our backups among several non-connected devices.

    6. Should you have a failure of your system disk, you will need to use your TrueImage Rescue CD; and restore both partitions in one single restore operation before your first bootup. TrueImage is very much aware that your system drive contains two partitions and is expecting two partitions to be restored.

    As you visualize step 6, some of your backups should be of the full disk type (all partitions within the disk checkmarked during backup creation). This is especially true for your system disk. Being able to restore from a backup which has contains a backup of all partitions on that drive provides more restoration options. I'm trying to make sure you avoid restoring only the system partition onto a new blank disk which is more difficult if the original source disk contained multiple partitions.

    7. Should you choose to replace your 2nd data disk(disk 2) with a new larger disk, you will probably want to
    ..a. Attach new disk and use TI's "Add new disk" option. (from within Windows or using the Rescue CD)
    ..b. Create two blanks partitions in the desired size; format both.
    ..c. Restore data partition 1 only from external drive backup onto the new partition 1 of drive 2.
    ..d. No restoration of partition 2 necessary. In fact, I doubt if you would even have a backup of that partition--since that partition was the storage area for your other backups.
    ..e. Once new drive operational, start rebuilding a new set of backup archives into your newly enlarged backup storage area which is the empty 2nd partition of the new larger drive.

    8. Many of us have chosen to utilize the new XP feature of sequential drive re-lettering so I am unsure as to how your drive letters are assigned. In post #10 by Seekforever, he illustrated using letters C & D for Disk 1 and letters E & F for Disk 2. Your XP Disk Management can show you the arrangement of your partitions and drive lettering/naming in use. To re-emphasize, naming your drives with easily identifiable names for positive identification can be critical when using the TI Rescue CD--which has been known to identify the drive via different drive letters.

    9. I have not discussed cloning as an option for use on replacing disk #2. In your specific situation, I believe restoring the single image would be easier ...Goal being to duplicate data partition-1 but have partition 2 empty so as to accept new backup storage files. The data residing on the old 80G disk 2 would be your extra security until the new disk is operational with newly created backups.

    10. There are differing ways of achieving a goal. My listing is one of several methods.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2007
  24. CarolW

    CarolW Registered Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    Re: Brand new to True Image Home 11 - restore order

    Im Late! I'm Late! It's half past eight!

    Hey, Grover, THANKS for this fabulous post! I am SAVING it; you're quite right; I missed it! I spent three days with the author of a small program (paid shareware) I use constantly to help me schedule stuff on my machine and for my diabetic dog! Couldn't get it to work after reinstalling; the author, though, just kept working with me till we got it fixed! (Desktop Goodies (, by Ron Grau. We had to edit the registry to fix it. So I learned more about that. Then I had another two days, iincluding nights, of course) with Search My Discs, by Dmitriy Stepanov, to get my database restored - screen problems with that one! - other problems too - an indispensable program for me, as I have an awful lot of CDs with old COPIED (file copy) backups on them.

    So your post came along in the middle of all that, and I thought I'd located replies but missed yours, and thanks for pointing that out to me!

    Yours, I'm going to save in a text file and put it in my QuickLaunch, so as to refer to it quickly from time to time.

    I can't buy stuff, as my dog's medical expenses more than wipe out any financial capability I might have - fixed, eroding, pension income only! (But I did buy True Image, rationing my food to do it!

    Too bad a large hard disk is OOTQ (Out Of The Question) for me! But since one never knows, I'll be making any adaptations that would work on what I have now, and continuing my wish list for a larger hard drive, and/or a second external drive with considerable capacity.

    Your suggestions for partitioning and use of those partitions make sense to me - undoubtedly I don't follow them fully, but I certainly get the idea!

    And yes; I have a LARGE directory on my external drive, called Pantry, where the files are all simple copies, as one would make with XCopy.

    I'm still quite muddled with doing too many different things at once; on the other hand, I'm now tweaked enough (or my machine is) so I'm mostly in operation. Still some configuring to do, in various applications.

    And I FINALLY managed to put Forte Agent's data in some place other than C:\Program Files I really have trouble with terminology, in Agent, and in NoteTabPro - just cannot understand it; it seems geared to people who actually know something about computers and/or software. I really have to commend the people on this forum who are helping, because I'm understanding what they (and you) are saying to me!

    And having put Agent's data on another partition, I finally managed to do the same with Search My Discs; that's a big help; it always bugged the heck out of me that I hadn't managed to do that.

    I've been alternating "C-Tweaked" backups to partitions F and the external drive (H). Remembering SeekForever's assistance, I made a careful diagram (hard copy) of which partition is where on which physical drive, and took other precautions to make sure I could recognize which is which even if I boot from the Rescue CD, and it does oddball things with the drive letters. SeekForever anticipated that for me, so I was able to anticipate it too! (I tested - booted from - the two copies of the Rescue CD I made, before proceeding further! - and I did that job first thing after I got my paid version of True Image installed).

    Some people are truly great teachers; my fabulous computer dealer is one of them, you people on this forum are more of them!

    I'll be back to update again - I've averaged 3 to 4 hours of sleep in 24 for the last 12 days, till last night, when I got about five; haha! But my machine is SO much happier, and since it's a lifeline for me, out here in the boonies, I'm glad to put the work in - but would not have had anything like as good a job on it, had you people not been helping all along the way. (Thanks to my dealer's teachings, over the past 20 years, I pretty well recognize good suggestions when I see them!)

    So far, again, True Image is doing its job without faltering. Just now, for the first time, I had it back up my Drive C's latest Tweaks while other programs were running; therefore I set the Task to Low priority, instead of my usual High Priority. It completed quite quickly anyway, and validated, too; I validate ALL backups, in principle. There are too many stories of people who back up religiously, then the backups don't restore properly. Maybe True Image doesn't have that problem, but as you say, Grover, any program can choke, on just about anything - for instance, a power zap! And I live in logging country, where power zaps are frequent (my UPS helps with that).

    Mostly, though, I expect to make backups allowing true Image High Priority (exiting all Windows programs before backing up).I did learn, though, with the help of AVG Technical support, how much is going on behind the scenes even if you're not running any Windows programs - they pointed me to Microsoft's SysInternals utility called Filemon.exe. They had me run that in order to look for conflicts with their Internet Security, which I installed early n October, to replace ZoneAlarmPro's firewall.

    Conflicts? WOW! My Norton Ghost had installed portions of Norton Anti-Virus, without letting me know that, and that stuff was conflicting with AVG Anti-Virus. I am SO glad I DUMPED Norton Ghost - got rid of the conflict problem that way. And True Image is, intuitively, much easier to use, at least for me. And it doesn't go around installing unwanted programs! I told AVG support I'd be looking for a better image backup program. And I found it!

    Oh; I almost forgot! Thanks for the remarks on backing up the same PHYSICAL drive all in one backup! I will make an appropriate backup. Haven't done that yet.

    Since I'm so pie-eyed, I'm talking too much; back later!

    Sat, 29 Dec 2007 08:33:15
  25. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

    May 10, 2006
    Massachusetts, USA
    1. Firefox is my browser. When I run across a posting which I want to save, I click on File and click the "Save As" option which will save a copy of the entire posting page into a folder on my desktop (or quick launch tray). When saving browser page, you have a 3 choices for saving as:
    ...Text file
    ...Web Page, HTML only (no image attachments saved) (my normal save)
    ...Web Page, Complete (includes all image attachments)

    I have been using this "save as" feature for so long, that I do not know whether it is included in standard Firefox or needs the Firefox extension "File Title 1.2". Internet Explorer has a similar feature. The attachment below shows an example of my use of "Save as Web Page".

    NoteTab Pro is a great text editor which I use for pre-preparation of most my postings. I particularly like its "Auto Correct" feature plus its many other features

    2. Yes, a Download Mgr can be really helpful. I use two free one which is FlashGet and Free Download Manager. I prefer FlashGet but both work very well. However, some websites will not allow their use and you're forced to use your browsers download feature. I, too am on dialup. When I want to download a large file (such as TI upgrade), I will go to the local library or use cable at our son's house which is 45 minutes away. I carry a 1GB thumb drive ($12) on my keychain me so I can download large files to it from wherever convenient. When downloading large files at home, I usually start the download and then go to bed. We are a one telephone line household so I never download files during the day or evening. Don't want to block those incoming calls from the grandkids.:)

    3. A helpful computer dealer can be invaluable. He built mine (4 yrs ago) and will do any repairs which I cannot do.

    4. An eagerness to learn and a willingness to try goes a long way in learning about computers. My congratulations on your achievements!
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