bought TI9, did "image", C: died 9 days later

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by charliet, Sep 4, 2006.

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  1. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Bought TI 9.0 about a month ago (boxed version). Installed (created restore CD - got OK message) and "did an image" to a new USB external HD (120G). "Image" checked as "OK". Did not actually "test" the restore CD.

    Primay HD (40G WD), 9 days later, suddenly "died" (makes a clunking sound when trying to boot, get error pretaining to "drive unrecognized").

    I have read a number of entries attempting to understand how to "restore the image" to a new drive. Realized that I will need HELP.

    a) purchased a new 160G internal HD to replace the 40G (more space for very few additional $$'s). Should arrive early this week.
    b) know almost nothing about partitioning a drive.
    c) would like to "properly utilize" the new 160G HD. Seems like I could end up with "having" only 40G of the full 160G.

    Need suggestions (or steps) to get my system running again (Dell GX240 with XP Pro and Office 2000). Need to restore the image, system has no CD's (business lease return).

    Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hello charliet,

    To allocate the whole 160GB on the new drive you should perform a partition(s) restore with resize. If you have more than one partition on the old drive, you should select the first one, resize it and then tell the Wizard (towards the end of the steps) that you want to include more partitions, so you will be able to select and go trough the screens for the subsequent partitions (resizing them too) and finally select the MBR and Track 0 as well.

    This procedure assumes the image was created with build 3567 or higher. If you have a previous build, the MBR and Track 0 will not be shown in the image as a separate item to select for restoration. In such an event, you should first restore the whole drive (Disk 1 checked) which will automatically restore the MBR too, but will give you 40GB allocated and 120GB unallocated. To resolve this, you will restore the same image one more time, now doing the partition(s) restore with resize described above.

    You can start with the blank new drive, no previous partitioning and formatting is needed.
     
  3. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    bVolk,

    Appreciate your reply!!! I think I have 3577 (Jun-2006).

    I don't really understand partitions and how to "set them up". So, I assume the TI9 restore will get me to a point where I can "resize" (or delete, if needed), partitions after the restore is complete.

    Again thanks,
    Charliet
     
  4. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hi again charliet,

    You can verify what build you have if you go into Help>About. It's probably something else than 3577, because I can't remember that particular build number. Boxed version builds are often outdated when you receive them. The current build is 3677.

    But never mind, just start the Recovery Wizard. If you see the MBR and Track 0 in the selection screen, do the partition restore with resize straight away. If you don't see the MBR, perform the whole disk restore followed by the partition restore with resize. Come back here if you are uncertain.

    If your old disk had only the letter C:, than C: was your single partition. If you had more then one partition, you should normally have had C: and D: etc.

    The resizing is determined by you while setting the options in the Recovery Wizard in preparing the partition(s) restore and it is actually carried out during the restore process performed by TI. It is not a separate action, it's part of the restore process.

    Maybe I should clarify somewhat. The fact is that the whole disk restore (Disk 1 checked, all the partitions beneath it autochecked) will by default and silently restore also the MBR (you need that when setting up a new drive) but will not give you the option to resize the partitions. Only partition(s) restore (Disk 1 unchecked, partitions checked one by one) gives you the option to resize, but before build 3567 the MBR was not shown to be checked separately. Hence the need to do it in two passes if you have a build prior to 3567. The whole disk restore includes the MBR, the partitions restore allows for resizing. With build 3567 and above the MBR is shown among the partitions, so you can select it along with the partitions and have the MBR restored and the partitions resized in one partition(s) restore run. HTH.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  5. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hello bVolk,

    I think my boxed version is 3677, not 3577. I do remember that it had a Jun-2006 date along with the version number.

    Appreciate your help; really do!!! But now I need a great deal more help.

    The new Seagate 160G HD arrived a couple of hours ago. I have installed the HD (as drive 0).

    a) powered up the PC
    b) loaded the TI bootable CD
    c) something ran for a few minutes (hour glass displayed)
    d) Acronis was loaded displaying a menu to select "full version" along with another menu item (something about USB).
    e) selected full version
    f) selected recovery
    g) the external HD (USB) that contains the 082506 image is not displayed
    h) the 160G HD (C:) is displayed and has what appears to be the image on it (o_O? don't know how it "got there").
    i) when prompted, I selected the partition that contained the 082506 image (now on C: drive)
    j) error message appeared noting that I was attempting to "overwrite the image and it couldn't be done" .
    k) read in another entry that sometimes the external HD would not be recognized by Acronis and to disconnect and then reconnect the USB connection at the PC with the HD powered up.
    l) tried that, still not recognized by the Acronis display
    m) now I'm just about "lost"
    n) the failed HD (orig 40G) ran for about 20 mins today before errors started occuring. could be used for a short time (maybe)

    If you have any suggestions, they will be greatly appreciated.
     
  6. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hello charliet,

    The fact that you cannot restore C: from an image residing on C: itself (yes, how did it get there?) is normal, since the restore process will first of all erase all data on C: and with them the image it was supposed to work from.

    Regarding the inability of TI, when booted from Rescue CD, to see the external drive, try the following workarounds:

    - apply the "quiet acpi=off noapic" parameter as detailed in the Please Read Before You Post sticky;
    - disconnect every unneeded USB device;
    - don't use an USB hub, plug the external direcly, possibly to a rear panel port (on desktop);
    - connect and power up the external drive before booting from Rescue CD (or after the CD drive starts, if the external drive is set on top of the boot order list in BIOS);
    - wait for a minute on the selection screen (Full/Safe/Windows) to give time to the external to initialize before proceeding;
    - select the Safe version of TI if the Full version (first choice normally!) will not let you see the external drive.

    You should also be aware that the TI version booted from Rescue CD runs within a Linux Operating System, where the letters are assigned to drives in different order than in Windows. Look at the contents of each drive displayed to determine which is which and select the drives according to their contents, disregarding the assigned letters. When you are back in Windows the lettering will be the usual Windows-like again. Could be that you do in fact see the external drive, only that it carries the letter C:, which would explain the presence of the image file on it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2006
  7. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hi bVolk,

    It seems there is much for me to learn. The drive C: that I referred to was indeed the external drive (F: in Windows). My problem was with the new HD. Had the cabeling wrong.

    I am now down in the actual "disk partition recovery from archive" part of the restore process. I selected verify before restore. It seems to be working but is very slow. A the moment it indicates there is "1 day 2 hours remaining" (one green marker in the "current operation progress" - started about an hour ago). The image backup (08/25/06) took about 3 hrs to complete and archive check was about the same amount of time.

    I read the recent entries pertaining to "slow" TI. Since my system is essentially broken, checking current drivers and downloading other drivers is nearly impossible. This 1996 Compaq does not have a cd/RW.

    Am I "spinning my wheels"? Will the restore eventually complete successfully?

    Again appreciate your time,
    charliet
     
  8. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hi again, charliet,

    So far so good, except for the restore speed.

    Considering the vintage of your Compaq it's USB ports most certainly are USB 1.1 instead of the current USB 2.0 that is tens of times faster than the old one. You could install a USB 2.0 card in one expansion slot, but I doubt the computer is worth the investment, the processor being slow as well.

    I think it's time for you to start thinking of a new(er) computer. You will be hindered in many ways with that one. The external drive should be USB 2.0 too, though it probably is - it's the computer keeping the speed down. You may install the new drive you just purchased as the second internal for direct storage of image files (best option!) while the external would give you a second level of security.

    When you buy a new computer don't expect to be able to restore the image created on the old one onto the new. The system image will not match the new hardware. You shall have to install the application programs from scratch but you will be able to copy your personal files from this image by running the TI "Mount" option and copying the files from the mounted image with Explorer.
     
  9. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hello again bVolk,

    Appreciate your time/help.

    I had to "bring the Compaq out of the dust bin" in order to access the internet. The PC I'm trying to restore is a Dell GX240 with a 1.4Gz Pentium (512M of ram).

    I started last evening (as noted). It's still "restoring" (finished the verification about an hour ago) and is indicating that 16 hours still remain). I hope the restore will complete successfully. If there are errors, seems like it may take quite some time to "get this thing going".

    I read more last night about "slow TI9 responses". Someone suggested contacting support and ask about a boot CD from Acronis. Maybe I need to do that this morning.

    Again, appreciate your help,
    charliet
     
  10. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    You are welcome,charliet.

    I'm glad it was a misunderstanding. :D

    Let us know about your progress.
     
  11. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    bVolk, good buddy, old pal, friend, etc,

    Just booted the GX240 and am currently entering this reply on the GX240. Took a little over 18.5 hours to complete (no errors). Will have more time later today to check other applications.

    I am very grateful for your help/time. It kept me from doing something "REALLY STUPID".

    As far as I am concerned (right now) TI9 is a good product that saved me lots of time and a little money (would have had to take the PC back to the company I bought it from for a "fresh restore" of the OS. Data would have also been lost (I backup once every 2 weeks - most of the time). In about 20 years of heavy use of PC's, this is the 1st HD drive failure for me. I will probably be more careful with backups in the future.

    TI9 has been worth the money and time spent (even with the 18.5 hr restore).

    I will update you upon further analysis of my restored system. May need some help with drive 0: partitions later. I also hope to contact Acronis and see if I can get something that will help speed-up the backup/restore process. I feel like there is something available.

    Again, many thanks to you (and Acronis). Hope the day is good for you.
    charliet
     
  12. cdikland

    cdikland Registered Member

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    :blink: Wow, 18.5 hours to restore. You are a patient person:D Wonder why it took so longo_O? Most time any of my restore take is about 1 1/2 hours. (13gb backup file onto 40gb HD, dell Dimension 4400 1.6ghz)
     
  13. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hello there charliet, :D

    I'm merely passing on part of what I received from the friendly and knowledgeable guys here in the past. Wait until you meet them!

    I've had a look at the GX240 on the web. The first releases came with a 20GB drive which tells me this probably isn't one of the newest Dell models either. I think you should verify in the computer manual the version of the USB ports installed because the 9 hours restore (after the 9 hours validation) still smells of USB 1.1. But I have no experience with Dells.

    If my guess is right, no replacement boot CD from Acronis will help, but then a USB 2.0 expansion card should.

    By the way, what size is your image file and about how long did it take to create it? You did it directly to the external drive, didn't you? Was it done from Windows or the Rescue CD?
     
  14. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Good morning bVolk,

    All applications appear to be working OK this AM. The 160G drive (C:) indicates 40G total (via properties). Will need to fix sometime soon (as soon as I have time to "figure out" how to do it).

    I think the USB is 2.0 (from device manager - "Intel(R) 82801BA/BAM USB UNIVERSAL HOST CONTROLLER"). I remember reading (somewhere, maybe Dell site) that it is a 2.0. The failed (original drive) has a date of "08 Jan 2002". So the system had to be made after that date? A message appeared at the beginning of the "image save" that asked if a faster USB was available.

    Some data from the Nero Info Tool (07/26/06):

    Driver : usbccgp
    Description : USB Common Class Generic Parent Driver
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation

    Driver : usbhub
    Description : Default Hub Driver for USB
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation

    Driver : usbprint
    Description : USB Printer driver
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation

    Driver : usbscan
    Description : USB Scanner Driver
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation

    Driver : USBSTOR
    Description : USB Mass Storage Class Driver
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation

    Driver : usbuhci
    Description : UHCI USB Miniport Driver
    Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-215:cool:
    Company : Microsoft Corporation


    The TI 11.5G image required about 3 hours to save, 3 hrs to verify using Windows. And yes, it was directly to the external drive.

    During the restore, the HD LED would "flash on" about once/second (external HD LED appeared to be "steady on" which is normal when inactive). During the image save (via Windows), the external HD LED "flashed" at a much higher rate than the HD did during restore (via CD).

    To cdikland:
    Yes, I was patient. I had no other choice!

    Thanks again,
    charliet
     
  15. patermann

    patermann Registered Member

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    I am currently working on a GX240 and I can confirm that the standard USB ports are indeed USB 1.1 - it takes ages backing up even a few MB to my USB thumb drive! :(

    HTH

    patermann
     
  16. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hi charliet,

    It would seem that patermann's post just about settles it. Nero Info Tool didn't report the USB version.

    To see the speed difference I did an image direct to my external over USB 2.0 (usually I store them to the second internal HD and then copy the selected ones to the external).

    When I recalculate for your image size, on my system (from Windows) an 11.5 GB image would take about 11 min to create and about 8 min to verify. My processor is nearly twice as fast and the external drive is a fast 7200 RPM SATA too, but compared to the USB 1.1 bottleneck that doesn't make much difference.

    I would suggest you consult the company you bought the computer from to verify about the installed USB version if you didn't find that info in the manual (your GX240 could be of later production than paterman's) and about the possibility of installing a USB 2.0 expansion card (the GX240 came in different boxes, one was terminal sized) if original USB 1.1 is confirmed.
     
  17. cdikland

    cdikland Registered Member

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    Of course... That explain it.:oops:

    While my old dell has a bunch of 1.1 USB ports, when I added an external drive I added a USB v2.0 expansion card as well. I soon forgot I even have USB 1.1 on my system and hence was confusedo_O when charliet said it took 18 hours to restore/verify a 40gb drive.
     
  18. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello charliet,

    To recover the full size of your new hard drive, use the Manage Acronis Secure Zone Wizard to create a maximum size Secure Zone (SZ) in the 120GB of unallocated space. Do NOT accept the default option to also activate the Acronis Startup Recovery Manager. Once TI has done it's thing and created the SZ, use the Manage Acronis Secure Zone Wizard again to remove it and opt to return the space being used to your C: partition.

    Regards
     
  19. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hello bVolk,

    Have determined the GX240 does not have USB 2.0 (ordered a 2.0 card Friday). Thus reason for the 3 hr image backup. But it still seems the restore should have been faster. I have the Jun-2006 dated version of TI9, but downloaded the latest upgrade dated Jul-2006 (have not actually upgraded as of this AM). Hope the USB 2.0 "cures" the "slow TI9 response. I hope to create a new image upon installing the USB 2 card (and TI9 update) and will post results.

    Thanks to all,
    charliet
     
  20. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hi charliet,

    Let's see what USB 2.0 gives.

    To avoid confusion you should distinguish the various builds by their build numbers. Do not rely on release dates, especially with boxed versions. See what build number you have now by going into Help>About. If it's lower than #3677, download the latter (you have to be registered), uninstall your present one, install #3677 and burn a new Rescue CD from it.
     
  21. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hello bVolk,

    Just installed the USB 2.0 card and performed another "image". This one took 16 minutes. Being "an old country boy", I have to say that's "a big improvement over 3 hours". I will assume the restore would also be much faster. Hope I don't have to "do one" anytime soon.

    I downloaded the latest update from TI on 9/10/06 (trueimage9.0.3677_s_en.exe). Have not installed (or updated) yet. Hope to do that soon and create a new recovery CD. Help>About indicates that the one currently installed is 9.0 (build 2,323); not 3677.

    I also contacted TI support about the slow restore of the 08/25/06 image (done via the CD). They indicated that "damaged data" can cause a much slower restore due the "sector by sector" data transfer. Since the HD failed 9 days after backup, I may have corrupt data although the validation process was successful.

    Thank you (again) for your help. Thanks to TI for a "great product". (at least in my book).

    charliet
     
  22. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hello there charliet,

    I'm very glad to hear the good news. I would say your speed is now quite normal for your processor and IDE drives.

    Do verify that your external is seen over the new USB expansion card from the Rescue CD as well, just to be sure.

    If you didn't resolve the unallocated space yet, you can do it now, with the new build installed. The method Menorcaman suggested is faster while the partition restore with resize would let you easily create an additional partition D:, which is not a bad idea at all.

    If you decide to create a D: partition, restore partition C: resizing it to, say, 60 GB. Then, in Windows, go Start>Programs>Administrative Tools>Computer Management>Disk Management. On the right pane locate the section representing the unallocated remaining 60 GB on disk, right-click on it and Create New Partion. Set it as NTFS, Primary, not Active. After the new partition is created rigt-click on it again and Format it. Check that My Computer now displays C: and D:.

    Create a whole disk image, no matter that D: is empty yet. In future, restore C: only from images taken after D: has been created because the disk setup is reflected in some Windows files included in the images. If you restore only C: the number of partitions when you restore must be the same as it was when the image of C: was created.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2006
  23. charliet

    charliet Registered Member

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    Hello bVolk,

    Hope you're still there. I have been quite busy with "outside work" since I last posted.

    The "restored" system has been perfroming very well. Have been updating files, adding some files, etc. I have performed two additional "disk images" with TI9 (latest was last week - deleted one prior - keeping the 1st image). All "went very well". Will start TI9 backups after Disk0 is properly allocated.

    I have not "recovered the lost" disk space yet. Have been "looking at the system" some today. I am still "running the initial restore" done in Sept. Using "disk management" today, this is what I found:

    Disk0
    Basic
    149.05 GB
    Online
    (C:) 38.00 GB (note: would like to keep the system disk (C:) at 40 GB)
    Healthy
    111.04 GB
    Unallocated

    Disk1
    Basic
    111.79GB
    Online
    SEA_DISK(G:)
    111.79GB
    Healthy

    I right-clicked the 111.04 GB "box" for Disk0 and selected the "New Partition" icon:

    clicked "next": Select Partition Size
    Primary Partition was already selected
    Extended Partition was not selected

    clicked next: Partition Size
    Max disk space (MB): 113710
    Min disk space (MB): 8
    Partition Size (MB): 113710 (with up/down arrow)

    clicked next: Assign Drive Letter or Path
    Assign the following drive letter: F (in window with down arrow) was already selected
    Mount in the following empty NTFS folder (in window that was empty) was not selected
    Do not assign a drive letter or path was not selected

    clicked next: Format Partition
    Do not format this partition was not selected
    Format this partition with the following settings was selected
    File system: NTFS in a window (with down arrow)
    Allocation unit size: Default in a window (with down arrow)
    Volume label: New Volume in a window (with a down arrow)
    Perform a quick format was not selected
    Enable file or folder compression was not selected

    This was far as I "went" (unsure of being correct). Any suggestions on a path forward? Should I make another TI9 disk image before attempting to allocate the 111.04 GB on C:? As I mentioned above, would like to keep C: small (40 GB) and use remainder of Disk 0 for "non-critical" folders/files.

    As always, I appreciate your comments/help (also from others)

    charliet
     
  24. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    Hi again charliet, nice to read you again.

    That's the sequence allright and the default settings are correct too. There is only this one detail that I don't remember:

    "Mount in the following empty NTFS folder (in window that was empty) was not selected"

    but I think this default should be accepted as well. Just go ahead and perform it as you described above.

    It won't hurt if you create a new entire disk image before creating the second partition (just in case), but you certainly should create an entire disk image (with C: & F: ) after the second partion is created (but still empty) and keep it on storage. If in the future you'll be regularly creating images of C: only, you will first restore that last entire disk image to build the 2-partition layout on the new drive you may need to install sometime later, when your present 120 GB eventually dies. Hopefully that won't be soon, but it pays to think in advance.
     
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