boclean not getting along

Discussion in 'other anti-trojan software' started by snowbound, Nov 4, 2003.

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  1. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Hi everyone

    Been having a problem with my boclean lately. Since i installed nod32 and ZA+, at bootup 2 or 3 times a week, a boclean message pops up saying it wants to exclude one of my programs from it's first scan.

    Says the program could be troublesome. Funny thing is it is never nod32 orZA+ it wants to exclude. It is always a program i had before i installed before i got nod32 and ZA+ like spywareblaster or msn messenger.

    Anyone have any ideas?
    Thanks
    Snowbound
     
  2. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Hey Snowbound,

    Yep, I have an idea ;)
    It's a new feature in the version 4.11 of BOClean.
    More detailed answer comes later, but if BOClean advices you to exclude something, well let it do ;)

    Later some more ;)
     
  3. sig

    sig Registered Member

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    This is the new "crash/boom/do you wanna exclude?" feature with BOClean 4.11. You can always email PSC support since they are known for their customer svs and responsiveness. (I'm running BOClean, NOD and ZA Plus without problems although some have experienced issueswith a BOClean/NOD combo.)

    I've been wondering (based on what I've seen) that perhaps BOClean may not always be the best diagnostician in terms of potential program conflicts? There may be an issue with a program like it crashes for some reason (but not necessarily as a result of a conflict with BOClean) and BOClean is set to err on the side of caution by providing the user the option to exclude the app to err on the side of caution? And perhaps BOClean might be crying wolf to some extent? Dunno but wondering.

    But a email to PSC support is best since I'm really talking out of my (cough) hat. For a short while I occasionally saw the exclude message for the already excluded app but then went away. I wasn't entirely convinced there was an actual conflict between BOClean and the flagged software since there hadn't been one before. Only change in my system/software was upgrading to 4.11.

    Just another comment, perhaps you were just mentioning SpywareBlaster as an example of a software name, but since it is not a running program, I don't see how it would conflict with BOClean.

    Anyway, if anyone has the straight scoop, let us know. My BOClean hasn't been at all chatty lately, so I haven't pursued the issue.
     
  4. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Hi, Snowbound. Till FanJ gets back to you, here is some reading:

    http://www.nsclean.com/supboc.html

    Especially the last 1/3 of the page, good luck.

    Acadia
     
  5. FanJ

    FanJ Guest

    Thanks a lot Sig !

    (I have to get off my PC at the moment due to physical problems. My vision problem causes me to put my nose almost at the screen to be able to read anything on it.
    Sitting for too long that way: I simply cannot.
    I really do apologize guys !!! Please forgive me.)
     
  6. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Hi everyone

    No apoligy necessary FanJ. I know exactly how u feel. I have vision problems too. If i sit staring at the screen for more than 1 hour i lock right up!

    I will have to pay more attention to my upgrades from now on. :p I'm always in such a hurry to get it. I like to fool with it first then read later.

    I read the boclean page u posted acadia, thank u very much. Now i understand about this new feature.



    Yes u were right sig, i meant to say spywareguard not spyware blaster :doubt: Getting old, memory is lousy now. ;)

    This new feature could be useful. Stops problems before they start.

    I will let it do its job just like FanJ said.

    I wonder what the old version of boclean would have done if it encountered a troublesome program. I guess it would have just locked up. Never had that happen to me on old version.
    Any way, i will contact kevin at boclean and see if there is known conflicts with certian software.

    Thanks FanJ, sig and acadia
    Youv'e all been a great help
    P.S Hope your'e feeling better FanJ

    Take care
    Snowbound
     
  7. sig

    sig Registered Member

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    D'oh, thanks for posting a link to the BOClean support page, Acadia. It should have occurred to me. I've had a a headache today (that's also bothering one eye) and so that's my excuse. I feel like squinty old Popeye with a hangover. ;) :D Sounds like we all need a break from the monitor. :)
     
  8. dom424

    dom424 Registered Member

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    I was having this happen alot too. Sometimes it would exclude the same programs over and over. Kevin figured it out and my particular problem was I had one of the 1st 4.11 versions out. He sent me a new copy of BOClean and I installed it and have not had a problem since.
     
  9. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Hi dom424

    Did kevin say what the problem was with early version of 4.11?

    I also got my copy of 4.11 early. I think it was first day of release. Maybe i should reinstall too.

    This problem is still happening.
     
  10. dom424

    dom424 Registered Member

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    Mine was the first day too. I would email him and ask him to send you another copy. I bet that will fix you.

    I really don't remember exactly what the deal was, but I sent some BOClean folder for him to see. After he recieved it he said he said my copy was one of the earliest 4.11 version and he needed to send a new copy. That stopped my problem as soon as I uninstalled the old copy and installed the new one he sent me. Actually I have not had it do it all with this copy.
     
  11. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Thanks dom424

    I'll get on that right now.

    Take care

    Snowbound
     
  12. dom424

    dom424 Registered Member

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    Post back and let us know if the new download "4.11" fixes your problem.
     
  13. One of the more amusing bits of Microsoft buggery (not). When we did our original 08/25 release, we were unaware that Microsoft had done a patch for IE which broke "long filename handling" as a botched solution for the "space exploit" in filenames (they've since fixed it, but we were unaware at release time and had built in a "workaround" to our original excluder and installer). The "space exploit" (since it no longer works) allowed a nasty to be placed onto a machine if the perp placed a file called "C:\Program" and then called "C:\Program Files\yada-yada-whatever" causing it to automatically run because Microsoft wasn't properly parsing spaces in a long filename at the time and falling through to "RUN IT" if "preview panes" in Explorer were enabled.

    Originally, Microsoft required filenames and pathnames with a space in it to be wrapped in quotation marks, but if they weren't, then this exploit would work. And internally, quotes are dropped by the OS. Microsoft chose a less than "robust" method of dealing with it by adding ADDITIONAL quote marks internally.

    This in turn broke a NUMBER of other programs which couldn't handle the double quotation marks that might result in the registry. Another nest of insects in that update also broke handling of SHORT pathnames which are used by device drivers since they require "8.3 filenames" since long filenames and pathnames only function under "Win32," and not in the DOS-based "undersystem."

    Long story short, we'd encountered their bug in beta testing prior to 4.11's release and for the installation of BOClean, as well as the excluder, opted to just go with SHORT pathnames and SHORT filenames, just converting for internal operation to avoid their issue entirely. This caused "matching problems" for the excluder when they DID fix the problem for Win2000 and XP since obviously an long filename and a TRUNCATED long filename are not a match and resulted in different SHORT filenames (~1 vs. ~2). Whoops!

    Subsequently they fixed it by breaking it ANOTHER way, leaving our original release in a lurch with respect to Win2000 and XP. Further, because of the changes they made in a later "critical update" a means that we used to determine if the machine into which BOClean was being installed was "Win95 legacy" (95/98/ME) or "NT legacy" (NT, 2000 or XPee) was tripped up and would install incorrectly in some cases.

    On 09/02, after about 50 people reported that either BOClean wasn't running at startup, or they were constantly undergoing the excluder at startup, we finally realized what the problem was and reworked the installer and the excluder so as to not be tripped up in Microsoft's little ant farm. :)

    The "space madness" resulted in breaking BOClean 4.10's uninstaller which either crashed upon attempting to uninstall 4.10 because it could no longer FIND BOClean 4.10 to uninstall it, or worse, the original installer for 4.11 (which suffered the same problem unbeknownst to us at first) would not properly replace all of BOClean's components, leaving a mixture of old 4.10 items as well as the new 4.11 items, resulting in multiple icons, DLL crashes, and the excluder constantly popping up on Win2000 and XP boxes. It was solved with the 09/02 build. For most people though, it worked just fine as was.

    We put out an email to all we could track down who had received the earlier build and replaced it for them. We've since learned that a few didn't receive the email or somehow we had a problem on our end and they didn't receive the notification. So over time, we've been contacted by a few others that we inadvertently missed who were "suffering in silence." :(

    Curiously, the "space madness" also affected a few Win98 customers whose systems were incorrectly detected by Microsoft as being XP for reasons I still can't fathom. In THEIR situation, the original release was not affected, but their machines were. For those, the solution was to turn off the recalibration by unchecking the box and leaving it as the default settings in BOClean's configuration. Microsoft has apparently NOT fixed this that we're aware of but that was the solution for those folks.

    As I often say to people in email, "never a dull moment in Billyworld" but if anyone's still got a kink, don't be shy - we can always send you a replacement if you still have the 082503 "gen" ... then again, if you haven't had any problems, no need - BOClean itself was unaffected by this, just the installer and the excluder. We've been VERY pleased with 4.11 on this end - support requirements have been VERY minimal on this one.

    But like I said, never a dull moment in Billyland. Try as much as we'd like, we have yet to perfect software that's capable of mutation. However, seems easy for the kids in Redmond. And whoever was last installed is to blame, not the real cause. :)
     
  14. Sorry for quoting so much, but wanted to have it all there. Yes, we were EXTREMELY overeager in the exclude popup and for that I apologize ... we've had a very small number of people running Win98 with ZoneAlarm and a handful of other programs that don't appreciate our deep probing of the kernel in Win98. Microsoft has literally built a monster on the venerable old Win98 platform - and a lot of people STILL use it because ... well ... frankly it WORKS, compared to "latter day offspring."

    The big problem for Win98 users is that it worked just FINE with IE4, and ZAP FREE 2.3. But after so many IE's, the cutoff of IE4 from Microsoft support, and a general focus in the software industry towards "oh, you've got to have the NEWEST and shiniest with ALL the latest updates" has destabilized Win98 users to no end. THAT'S what we mean by "poorly-behaved" programs. Our commitment in everything WE make extends to compatibility ALL the way back. Yes, our stuff works on WIN95! (That's what I use - I'm posting this on IE3 becayse Wilders breaks Netscape 4.xx) ... but the more time goes on, the more various software vendors using the latest Microsoft compilers HOSE Win98. THAT is the reason for the excluder - if you have Win2000 or later (or even NT4) then there's no NEED for the excluder.

    Anyhoo, our ASSUMPTION in the design was the handful of people who had reported during the 4.10 heyday that they'd suffered lockups and crashes, and in THAT case, each and every one was attributable to "gotta have free software from the net" written by people who had no IDEA that folks were still using older machines and thus BROKE them. In this situation, the assumption in our design was that if something locked up, *ANYTHING* then WE'RE gonna get blamed for it, so let's offer to EXCLUDE it so it won't crash again. :)

    But there's WHY ... sorry for the additional post. Folks who have contacted me have been given happy answers, though we've been CRAMMED with email after the latest exploits of "happy guest" who has wreaked more havoc lately than T33kid and Tataye combined. ("I'll take famous l33t haxors for $200, Alex") with folks flipping out and flooding me with panicked email ... forgive me if the answer takes a few hours ...

    But if the excluder's popping up, means that the system either WEDGED, or WHEN the machine shutoff, some OTHER program hadn't, and by design here, we ASSUME that a problem is OUR fault until PROVEN otherwise with PROOF that it isn't us. :)
     
  15. snowbound

    snowbound Retired Moderator

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    Ahh those microsoft patches.
    Aren't they a thing of beauty?(not)

    Kevin sent me new build. Everything working fine now.

    Thanks kevin

    Thanks to u too dom424!


    Snowbound
     
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