BluePoint Security product Q&A

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by BluePointSecurity, Aug 31, 2009.

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  1. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Agreed, many techie's systems change on a daily basis, whitelisting may be an issue at that point. But the average casual user is checking email, facebook etc it's perfect for that type of user.

    Whitelisting is definitely a challenge to implement but I would far rather work towards a smooth whitelisting solution than working with any other security model, there's just too many ways around them/flaws.

    Also, we really try to stray away from being the decision maker when it comes to "trusted" software. I wouldn't trust a vendor that decides to be the whitelisting czar. If and when they start making mistakes whitelisting apps, it would defeat the benefits of whitelisting in the first place. Just my opinion.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  2. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009

    I can't replicate the same issue in a clean vm, not seeing any problems. Can you tell me what service pack and language your vm is running? Also, what version of the .net framework is installed?
  3. ako

    ako Registered Member

    Nov 16, 2006

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  4. raven211

    raven211 Registered Member

    May 4, 2005
    Your opinion on ThreatFire? I consider it using a white-list (and black-list) approach, but detection instead based on behavior.
  5. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Haven't tested/checked out ThreatFire lately, I'll give it a look.
  6. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Just performed a small amount of testing with several products installed on the same vm. We'll continue more shortly, just wanted to take a quick look at things.

    WinPatrol v 16.1.2009.1
    Prevx v3.0.1.65
    Online Armor Personal Firewall ++ v3.5.0.32

    WinPatrol doesn't appear to cause any issues when combined with BluePoint.

    Online Armor seems to work fairly well with BluePoint, although I wasn't able to update BluePoint even after allowing the outbound in the firewall. I suspect that it's just a setting (didn't have time to dig through it). I disabled it and was able to update BluePoint without issues.

    Prevx and BluePoint seemed to be the most incompatible together in the same vm. The vm was very very sluggish (and this server is a dual quad core xeon!). I would not recommend running these two products on the same machine. The slowdown from Prevx alone in the vm seemed quite considerable. Prevx and BluePoint perform similar duties, I would suggest testing threats against them in a lab environment (attempt to infect) and make your own conclusions. Go with what you feel most comfortable with.

    As I've stated before I would strongly discourage running 3+ security programs at the same time especially if they are performing real-time monitoring capabilities. The result of 3+ real-time monitoring programs hooking into the same areas of your os will cause performance issues at the very least, instability is also quite likely. As a general rule of thumb, having more than one product hooked into the same areas is a dangerous proposition. Non real-time protection programs are far less likely to cause compatibility issues with BluePoint.

    Keep in mind, disabling security products doesn't necessarily remove the os hooks and these hooks are usual the causes of compatibility problems. So try to install BluePoint as a true standalone.

    Personally, instead of running 3 or 4 programs to remain protected, I would seek out 1 that can do the job alone. There are less than a handful of them I would consider up to that job. As always, choose what makes you comfortable.

    This isn't definitive and we'll continue cross testing.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  7. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009

    Thanks for the detailed information. Nothing jumps out at me as being the problem. My strong suspicions are either a corrupt .net framework or a language issue. It doesn't like something about that vm for some reason. I can tell you if clean machines wouldn't installed we'd be flooded with support calls, so it must be something specific to that machine. I'm checking into the language your using to see if that causes any issues.
  8. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    I'm always happy to share my opinion as you all know! :D

    I checked out ThreatFire with my usual quick test method which is:

    1. Install on clean vm
    2. Update
    3. Reboot
    4. Attempt infection with a few common in the wild threats
    5. Attempt infection with newer less known threats
    6. Attempt to execute keylogger (we created)
    7. Attempt to destroy vm with threat that deletes key windows dll's within about 5 seconds after execution (we created)

    I rate products by how far along this list they are able to survive as threats higher in this list are more difficult to prevent, especially since they are not on defs and we created them! Most of them fail at step 4-5.

    this one made it to step 6, which while not perfect is quite good actually.

    I tend to be a security purist, meaning I look for as close to 100% prevention out of a product as possible. I look to solve the malware problem, not to cleanup their messes after the fact, I'm tired of cleaning them up. At this point I believe in technologies based upon sandboxing or whitelisting, I've personally seen all other technologies fail time after time in real world tests. I'd love to post reviews as I've seen far too many reviews performed by unqualified people (names withheld). Many of these reviewers are doing a massive disservice to users as they are "passing" products that have clearly failed at prevention, even in their own video reviews.

    Since you are aware of the technology BluePoint is based upon, you can probably guess how far down the list it survives ;)
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  9. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

    Apr 1, 2002
    Annie's Pub
    Thanks for the kind invitation. when I understand well, BluePoint Security approach is: "deny the unknown".

    IMHO a direct download link to an exe file in your sig don't fit in that approach.. :rolleyes:

  10. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

    Apr 1, 2002
    Annie's Pub
    This thread can turn into an interesting one. :D Please provide us with names and facts to back up your statements. :)

  11. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

    Aug 1, 2002
    I am a GrandPa (& then some) & I understand Malware Defender (MD) pretty good, including your screenie. So also does my great-granddaughter Amy (age 9). She is adept with several classic HIPS, including D+ & MD.

    Classic HIPS enable power-users & tweak-freaks to have control-to-the-max. However, a neophyte can use MD easily by putting it in "Learn Mode" for a while, & then "rig for silent running" (Silent mode). A neophyte user of MD need never mess with (or even see) the MD screen you showed unless s/he wants to learn.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  12. darthsideous666

    darthsideous666 Registered Member

    Feb 9, 2007
    Secret Hideout on Coruscant
    This thread is starting to go in the wrong direction again:doubt: . Us vs Them:rolleyes: seems to be getting thrown back into it. Whether the product is beneficial to the user, how and why, that is what is important folks (I thinko_O ). Independent test results are good as well!:doubt:

    Just my thoughts.

  13. jmonge

    jmonge Registered Member

    Mar 20, 2008
    for me own personal test is the best cause you prove it your self,you know some test reviewers dont tell the truth:D it is better if we as users be the judge,well after testing:)
  14. raven211

    raven211 Registered Member

    May 4, 2005
    Interesting... in other words, running things under a LUA, which most users normally should - but don't - ThreatFire would have been "good enough" in theory. :D Thanks for your testing and insight on my query. :)
  15. raven211

    raven211 Registered Member

    May 4, 2005
    At least I definitely respect your opinion, but just as I thought, my query led to better understanding, both of the effectiveness of one of my products of choice and the philosophy, insight and professionalism of BluePoint as a company.
  16. ako

    ako Registered Member

    Nov 16, 2006
    I installed BPS inside VM with english XP. Now it worked. Small test:

    Allowed: FS blacklight, Processexplorer, Hitman pro, Adobe reader, a2, CIS-installer, MBAM, Unhackme

    Blocked: IE (sic!, pic 1), Realplayer (pic 2), GMER (high risk), Quicktime, AVZ

    The analysis never allowed execution and took too much time - minute or so.

    Allowed execution of malware when installation was inside Defencewall (pic 3). (Blocked this one as unknown outside of DW.)

    Did not block a pdf-exploit (pic 4). Allowed even registry modification before seeing something! (pic 5)

    I am not convinced. :thumbd: :cautious:

    Attached Files:

  17. ako

    ako Registered Member

    Nov 16, 2006
    Two more pictures: HOSTS-changed, Hitman pro scan after the exloit. (3 dead files from another test, not related to BPS.)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  18. ako

    ako Registered Member

    Nov 16, 2006
    Final picture. Scanning finds all malware files (Hitman pro scan after BPS cleaning clean.) Why real-time failed?

    Attached Files:

  19. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Good to hear it's running in the new vm.

    Are you clicking allow to test infecting the machine? Once you click override or allow you may very well end up infected and have to resort to a scan to clean things up.

    All security apps have settings or alerts you can override, it doesn't really prove anything to override all of the alerts to show infection, it's also a bit misleading.

    A better test would be to click deny on everything during the test and then determine if anything was modified. As a side note it looks like your a few versions back, check for updates.

    The analysis will never allow execution no matter what risk rating/result we give the item. That's more prevx's style. We never allow anything that's not known to us to be safe, allowing items after analysis would be heuristics/defs and that's not how BluePoint works, whitelisting only. Allowing items that appear to be "safe" can result in failure to prevent. That's up to you the user to determine if you want to allow execution. If your browsing around and you see the notification popup, it's quite likely it needs to be denied. The latest version is also more informative with the alerts.
  20. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    Also good to hear, a few have done testing and have reported nothing was detected when malware was present o_O . Without seeing their setup it's tough to tell why that happened (settings possibly?). Either way our detection rates are very very good (a few sites are testing as we speak). I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when our detection rate percentages are released here in the next few weeks :)
  21. jmonge

    jmonge Registered Member

    Mar 20, 2008
    Blue Point Shield didnt fail,bet if you test BPS alone it will block all those malware you tested:D i recognize all those malware that you use and even more i tested againts blue point and blue point clean the house very easilly,you may have a conflic in between security software:D did you tried BPS alone like i did?try that:)
  22. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    I "think" he clicked allow on the items to see how it responds/deals with that type of situation. I would find a hard time understanding how that many executables were allowed to execute without permission.

    ako, let us know on this one.

  23. jmonge

    jmonge Registered Member

    Mar 20, 2008
    ofcourse if i click allow it will go and even like that the scaner will remove them after all:) what i do is i wait few second after running malware and for sure it will be auto-block:cool:
  24. BluePointSecurity

    BluePointSecurity Registered Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    A few test setup recommendations:

    Setup a clean vm
    Install BluePoint
    Update BluePoint
    Check settings if testing scanning detection rates

    Begin testing

    Make sure you clearly state whether you have clicked allow on any malware related items, this sort of makes the test a bit pointless as every security app I've seen has ways to override and allow malware if you really want to.

    Try to explain screenshots so everyone understands what your showing.

    We have a few groups officially testing things now, we don't mind everyone testing, just make sure your clear on how you tested. Most security vendors would probably not encourage this type of "unofficial" testing. We stand behind our prevention methods and as long as you explain your methods we don't mind.
  25. ako

    ako Registered Member

    Nov 16, 2006
    Of course not. I got no warnings before the one seen in fig. 5. maybe a confict, I don't know. If Jmonge told it blocked everything I believe him.

    The version was downloaded just before testing,but seemed to be indeed old with one version number.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
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