BlackIce or Tiny

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by Robyn, Jul 21, 2004.

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  1. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    I know I have asked quite a few question over the last few days about firewalls :oops: but having almost decided on Outpost I discovered it is not yet compatible with SP2.

    I have decided to look at two which are known to me only by name. Most of my friends are with ZA/ Sygate/Norton.

    I searched this forum and found a little info on BlackIce but some of it dates back to 2002. I did find a recent post about Tiny and from this I gather it is rather complicated but an excellent firewall. Both sound promising for the actual website but what I really need to know is how they work in reality by anyone who actually runs them.

    I have my router firewall therefore looking for something to mainly control what is going out of my computer. I now know that an application only control is virtually impossible to find therefore I am back to a firewall substitute for Sygate Pro. Thanks in advance and apologies for yet more firewall questions :oops:
     
  2. se7engreen

    se7engreen Registered Member

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    Well, if you are new to Tiny, there is a learning curve. There is a well explained manual available on Tiny's website, but I believe it's still for version 5. Trial is also available.

    I consider Tiny a security suite because it is so much more than a firewall. The firewall itself is an effective stateful inspection firewall that's as configurable as they come. There are process guards to ensure trojans cannot inject malicious code into running processes. Also works to prevent trojans from terminating those processes. The windows security module allows you to control every aspect of your windows box. An example, if you use p2p apps, you can ensure that the app only has access to the folder you want to share and deny it from touching the rest of your system. I also use the windows security to set services rules. I apply a rule to my antivirus service that denies the service from being stopped or deleted.
    And an IDS tops off this package.

    Sorry for rambling on, but my point is it's a very robust, configurable package. If you decide to give it a try, you can expect many changes to the user interface. That seems to be an area of focus for the Tiny developers from what I hear lately. Also since ver 6 is new, updates have been frequent and will probably continue to be until all users are happy.

    I can't say much about Black Ice, I tried it out earlier this year, and I just didn't like it. No real reasoning for that, just sometimes a product effects me like that. Best thing you can do is try it for yourself.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Pigman

    Pigman Registered Member

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    Anything but BlackIce. BlackIce is known to be a leaker.
     
  4. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    Many thanks for your very detailed reply which I do not consider rambling as it is exactly what I need to know as I do go into things in detail before making my decision. I will have a look at the link provided and see what other facts I can glean from there. I have just purchased a new router this afternoon which has an even better firewall than the Netgear I am running at the moment.

    I am very interested in the Windows security service and the fact it is a configurable firewall (although a learning curve is necessary) I really do appreciate all of this information - thank you :)

    I also appreciate the post about BlackIce as this will further reduce my options as I certainly do not want to introduce any leaks ;)

    Thanks to both of you.
     
  5. se7engreen

    se7engreen Registered Member

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    :)
    Not a problem.
     
  6. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    I have just downloaded the trial version but will have to completely remove Sygate before installing. Reading the information on the website it really is a lot stronger than the name 'Tiny'. Will read more before trying ;)
     
  7. CrazyM

    CrazyM Firewall Expert

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    Hi Robyn

    Sounds like you're going to have some fun and keep yourself busy for awhile ;). Keep us posted on how it goes.

    Regards,

    CrazyM
     
  8. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    Hi CrazyM, I think I have totally exhausted myself over the last few weeks trying to work out which firewall is best suited to me! At least with my router in place I know I am protected but just the outbound needs to be tracked and traced - home computing is great fun when you are aware of security implications :rolleyes: I think I will need a lot of time to recover after all of this as I am also formatting and installing a new silent HD + extra fans plus controls for them :eek:

    I will let you know when I have at last resolved the firewall (at the moment I am worried about being able to configure Tiny and may well end up with my current Syygate Pro firewall which I more or less know how to configure :oops: ) hopefully I will find the confidence hiding somewhere.
     
  9. se7engreen

    se7engreen Registered Member

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    Tiny isn't for everyone and initial configuration can be a pain. If you're looking for a little guidence for your setup there is a post in the TPF 5.x support forum called "Are You New To TPF 5 - Basic Setup Checklist". Most of this can apply to ver 6.

    Hope you enjoy your recovery time when you're done with everything :)
     
  10. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    Thanks for this advice, thankfully I decided to take time out from firewalls today as I am in my creative mode! I will now be able to read the details before installing any trial and then 'hoping' I can configure it.

    One thing I will have to take into consideration if Tiny is rather complicated is the fact that I am not depending on the firewall alone so would it be worth the headaches just to control my outgoing traffic? I am not totally happy with Sygate Pro therefore I was looking for change but maybe when I read the details on setting up Tiny v5 they will prove a little too complicated for me :oops: As you will see from my various posts I do not take the decision lightly and try to gather as much info as I can before even running a trial.

    At the end of the day I do want to be very safe and know which firewall I feel happy with configuring as I do not want to install and uninstall when my computer is set up completely fresh.

    I really do appreciate all help given and apologise for asking so many questions - hopefully I will feel confident at the end of the day that I have chosen the correct firewall from all the advice I have received. Thanks to everyone.
     
  11. Chuck57

    Chuck57 Registered Member

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    My only advice on TPF is to be careful, very careful. I'm one to try things on my own and only after screwing up will I look at the instructions. Well, I ended up having my computer so secure that nothing on my desktop worked, including TPF. I couldn't change any settings because TPF wouldn't open to let me. I finally had to go into safe mode and remove Tiny, and then ended up having to reformat my drive because things never worked right afterward.

    I can vouch for the fact that all those things in Tiny work, but it's too complicated for me.

    *edit* This was Tiny 4.5
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2004
  12. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    Good advice for any security software Chuck57.
     
  13. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

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    Um...where did you get this idea from? In my reply to your query on this I pointed out that Outpost was reported to work with SP2 RC2. Previous SP2 builds did have problems but were you really planning on using one of these?
     
  14. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    Oh dear I think I mis-read your reply as I thought Outpost was not working with SP2 :oops: sorry about that as it would be the current version of any of the firewalls I would be choosing to run.

    I am a little confused now with the whole situation as I am concerned about security but reading the post above on the complications in configuring Tiny I am worried. I would have no doubt about Tiny if I didn't have a router firewall as it certainly does seem to offer a robust firewall beyond what I thought with software ones; I just wonder if the fact that it is so strong would be a possible conflict with my router o_O

    I started out looking for a replacement for Sygate Pro - I am solid in stealth as far as my incoming traffic goes but not with my outgoing. I now am confused (but still need to read the article in Tiny's site re: configs) which firewall I should be dealing with. I know Outpost is due to release an update to their firewall but this is still in beta. The SP2 I will be using it with is the one they release to everyone in August, Outpost looked to be easy to setup when I looked at this earlier.

    I will now bring Outpost back into my decision - I really did not think it would prove so difficult perhaps it is my lack of confidence in myself but my knowledge of the need for security. Apologies for reading your reply incorrectly Paranoid2000 :oops:

    I will certainly have to go back to the drawing book with Tiny and with Outpost now :(
     
  15. Chuck57

    Chuck57 Registered Member

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    Personally, I'd wait before downloading SP2. No doubt, as with SP1, there'll be a hundred fixes in the months following its release. I don't know that the fixes are finished coming out for SP1 yet.

    I use Outpost (latest version 314) and absolutely love it. It's a great firewall.
     
  16. ekerazha

    ekerazha Registered Member

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    BlackICE is and IDS (Intrusion Detection System). Its Application Firewalling capabilities are for minimal purposes only.
     
  17. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    I have taken a little look at the 'basics' of setting up Tiny :eek: I will have a lot to learn if I choose this one. Certainly powerful but I really would need to understand the basics before I could attempt this one as I have only read the introduction still have to read the manual :eek: not for night time reading!
    I have also downloaded Outpost's manual for tomorrow.
     
  18. mvdu

    mvdu Registered Member

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    I really like Tiny, and it's not that hard to get basic protection (stealthing, outbound application control,) but I have a router, so it might be overkill.
     
  19. Infinity

    Infinity Registered Member

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    I am licenced to outpost and when I read about tiny, man wouldn't I want that program a lot. I installed it and after putting my network in dangerous zone I stealthed. Quickly.

    the other modules are bit harder to learn. You can control like everything on your system.

    I am licenced to processguard too and to be honest : Tiny is the big brother of processguard. the two together would be overkill

    my router would not (be overkill)

    it is a perfect security suite. I hope for a stand alone like the previous ttt3

    but highly recommended, much more then iss.

    Bye
     
  20. mvdu

    mvdu Registered Member

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    No, I meant Tiny being overkill - not the router.
     
  21. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    mvdu - that is exactly what I am wondering; considering the great power of Tiny is it too much with a router when we really need application control o_O

    I have often considered Process Guard but even this I would have to learn. If Tiny is a big brother of PG it would offer the extra needed even with a router but I am sure I would spend most of my time learning and not surfing :oops:

    At least I was able to make my mind up about my router just the extras are confusing.
     
  22. mvdu

    mvdu Registered Member

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    Well, I think that Tiny could still be useful because of its control - but I'm not sure I want to pay another $50 when I've spent so much in my security search already.
     
  23. Robyn

    Robyn Registered Member

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    I have just been chatting to a friend and we think we will give the trial a go if we are able to use it basically until we learn more about the various modules.

    I still have a year to run with Sygate but if I thought I could master Tiny or Outpost I would purchase a new license (it sounds a lot more expensive in dollars than sterling!)
     
  24. Infinity

    Infinity Registered Member

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    Exactly my point. it has all you need. except antivirus (gdata) and at (tds) processm (pg) and firewall (tiny) it would be the best we can get.

    really.

    being stealthed was the most easiest to do. (that is important right??)

    I bet all leaktest fail with tiny too. it is the best . note that I have Outpost on my system too. just because blockpost.

    if not for blockpost, tiny would rule on my system.!!!

    bye
     
  25. Hyperion

    Hyperion Registered Member

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    IMHO,Tiny is far complicated for an average user and also has nothing "tiny" in it.I remember 4 processes i think running? It's more "Gozilla" than Tiny.

    Robyn,i think the best firewall is the one that you are comfortable and confident that you know what you are doing.Otherwise you can have a false sense of safety while in reality you leave the door open or as one said above you lock up everything to the point that the PC is non usable anylonger.

    If you think between Outpost and Tiny, i d say go for Outpost.You don't need a manual,it's pretty intuitive.I myself use Sygate,but i liked Outpost too.

    What's the point in having a cannon if you can't make it shoot accurately? Better a revolver that you can handle with ease :)
     
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