AVK, F-Secure or Kaspersky 5 ?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by The Gloomy Kestrel, Jul 10, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Gloomy Kestrel

    The Gloomy Kestrel Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Posts:
    15
    Hi,

    Just wondered which one is the best when it comes to heuristic and scanner. Someone tried those ones ? And can talk about it ?

    I'm asking about latest version of the three aboves of course, not tests 5 months ago...

    Thanks
     
  2. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Posts:
    997
    Location:
    India
    dear The Gloomy Kestrel, i haven't used AVK lately but used the other two. i'll go for KAV 5 if you ask me.
     
  3. kloshar

    kloshar Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2003
    Posts:
    279
    Location:
    Europe, Slovenia, Bre?ice
    F-secure definitively.
     
  4. Pigman

    Pigman Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Posts:
    381
    First of all... How much RAM do you have? They're all resource hogs, unless you put AVK's on-access scanner in RAV-only mode...
     
  5. Firefighter

    Firefighter Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2002
    Posts:
    1,670
    Location:
    Finland
    To The Gloomy Kestrel from Firefighter!

    The differencies concerning detecting rates are only at academic level between these three av:s. If we compare any other av (except maybe McAfee) to one of these av:s, we can expect at least 5 - 10 times more misses than there are between these three av:s.

    About heuristics, I'll bet on F-secure and KAV 5.

    Best regards,
    Firefighter!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2004
  6. Blackcat

    Blackcat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    4,010
    Location:
    Christchurch, UK
    Slight exaggeration, FF o_O or a slip of the pen?

    Dr Web, F-Prot for Windows, Command, surely not 5-10 TIMES MORE ( virus? )misses.
     
  7. Firefighter

    Firefighter Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2002
    Posts:
    1,670
    Location:
    Finland
    To Blackcat from Firefighter!

    Slight exaggeration? Not in my mind. Let's assume that those three KAV based av:s are actually within 0.2-0.5 % margins of total detecting rate against all viruses and trojans & backdoors.

    After that those other are at least those 2.5 % behind these three against those nasties mentioned above, which is actually very good result from any other av than KAV.

    Best regards,
    Firefighter
     
  8. Blackcat

    Blackcat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    4,010
    Location:
    Christchurch, UK
    Ah, percentages!!!! Statistics, statistics !!!! Thanks, FF.
     
  9. Slovak

    Slovak Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Posts:
    515
    Location:
    Medina, Ohio
    They are all pretty good choices, personally I would go with KAV or F-Secure out of the three you mentioned.
     
  10. The Gloomy Kestrel

    The Gloomy Kestrel Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Posts:
    15
    I have 512 Mb of RAM and an athlon XP 1700+ running Windows XP Pro.
    I have decided to go after KAV 5...

    Thanks :)
     
  11. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Posts:
    2,495
    Location:
    Hilo, Hawaii
    Dn't go with 5.0! 4.5 is so superior to 5.0 that it like they are two entirely different AVs. Plus, 5.0 places ADS tags on all your files without your permission and it doesn't even mention anywhere in the help file that it is doing this. These ADS tags mess with the proper running of your programs and don't make the scan any faster! Plus, to remove the tags is a major hassle. You have to either reformat or get Streams from System Internals and run it and it will remove the tags except for about 35 files that are locked that it can't touch. For those files, you next have to get a trial of TDS_3 and hand remove each tag which is tedious work. What is worse, if you trial 5.0 and decided to not keep it, all those ADS tags that Kaspersky put on every file on your computer remain after removing 5.0! That is horrible. Kaspersky has been extremely remiss in not producing a removal tool.

    Additionally,5.0 has major issues with causing severe, rapid fragmentation on XP if you use System Restore and it also messes with System Restore so that it doesn't work.

    I found 5.0 to scan much more slowly than 4.5 also. Plus, it uses 100% of the CPU of my fast, powerful box I got last November and 4.5 never uses above 60% CPU and I can do other things on the computer while doing a full scan using 4.5. I have to leave the computer when 5.0 is doing a scan as it consumes the CPU.

    4.5 is an excellent AV. 5.0 is terrible. The GUI in 5.0 gives you almost NO configuration choices and that coming from the AV known to have the most choices of all is shocking. 4.5 gives you a lot of choices and is far superior to 5.0 IMO. 4.5 is still supported and can still be purchased but not from the KAV store. You need to call or email KAV in England.

    5.0 has no working quarantine and the Report Viewer is a total mess. 4.5 doesn't handle quarantine well, but at least there is one available and Report Viewer works but is very poor. In all other respects though 4.5 is great.

    As for AVK or F-Secure, if they don't use ADS tags or allow you to turn that off then I would consider one of them or KAV 4.5.
     
  12. Blackcat

    Blackcat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    4,010
    Location:
    Christchurch, UK

    Mele, we sometimes lose sight of the fact that those of us who frequent security forums like Wilders and take a keen interest in computer security are probably < 1% of the population.

    Kaspersky has deliberately aimed KAV Personal with its many preset default settings at the masses, to go head to head with Norton and McAfee. KAV Personal Pro 5 when released is the one to choose if you like tweaking and more configuration options.

    For the AVERAGE home computer user, and its use as an OEM, KAV 5 is ideal and a much better choice than v4.5. In these cases the lack of configurability, good default settings and the 'pop-up' recommendations/reminders are a major advantage. For the average user, KAV 4.5 has TOO MANY options.

    As a KAV user who has progressed through from Version 3 to KAV 5, the differences between the 3 versions are striking. You complain about the lack of configuration choices in the present version, which means you have never seen or used version 3! But this did not detract from the effectiveness of AVP 3 as, in its time, it was considered probably the 'best' AV scanner, with a very light footprint.

    I would disagree that KAV 5 has major issues and for me anyway it is running very smoothly on an ancient 5-year old computer without any problems whatsoever. Most new versions of software have bugs/glitches to sort out. For example NOD version 2 gave a lot of problems when first released but with time these are being resolved. Kaspersky will eventually iron out the problems with the new version as it did with KAV 4.

    Overall, the statement that ' KAV 5 is terrible' is I feel a slight exaggeration but that is your own personal view. It has only been released 3 months and compared to the initial releases of KAV 4, it can be considered a good 'gold release' with some minor problems to address.

    There are some problems with system restore and quarantine could be better but name me one AV program that is 'perfect'. My personal view, is that for 'newbies', KAV 5 is highly recommended, even on older computers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2004
  13. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Posts:
    2,495
    Location:
    Hilo, Hawaii
    I agree that all AV have shortcomings and we each have to decide for ourselves which we like best on our machine. I can't imagine though that anyone who learns about ADS tags would ever use KAV5.0. The very fact that the tagging can be turned off in KAV5.0 Pro says that Kaspersky knows many knowledgeable users won't stand for all their files being tagged by KAV in this manner.

    As for my probably liking 5.0 Pro no I won't like it because it is too expensive. I like 4.5 personal's price. I have no interest in the additional things you get in 5.0 Pro. I think Kaspersky has shot themselves in the foot frankly. To force users who had 4.5 personal to fork out a lot more money to get just some of the configuration choices they had in 4.5 is awful. And to force them to spend a lot more money so they can turn off KAV ADS tagging is also terrible.

    I was a definite potential customer of KAV until I unknowingly got all my files polluted by ADS tags when I trialled KAV5.0. The fact the KAV help file is totally silent on the ADS issue is shocking. I would never have installed the trial if I had known what would happen! Kaspersky continues to shoot itself in the foot by not providing a tool for us to remove the ADS tags that KAV leaves behind on every single file when KAV 5.0 is removed. That is inexcusable! I had tremendous respect for Kaspersky Antivirus until this horrible experience with 5.0 personal. For Kaspersky to take advantage of newbies in this fashion just so they can make a fast buck with the OEMs really has taken away the respect I used to have.

    I think 4.5 personal is an excellent AV but I'm not keeping it. And I won't be getting 5.0 Pro. Why? Because Kaspersky has demonstrated a serious lack of caring about the customer with these ADS tags and has been very sneaky on top of it. I realize that some users don't believe the tagging will affect the proper running of their applications and the stability of their OS and so they don't see the issue as I do. That is their right. However, it is my right to be informed before an application makes PERMANENT CHANGES TO EVERY SINGLE FILE ON MY COMPUTER. I was NOT informed this would occur thus I was not given any choice and this was done without my consent. This action is to me the equivalent of CoolWebsearch or some other nasty spyware being silently included in a download of an application I wanted to try.

    If I wanted the KAV engine without the bad stuff, I would just get McAfee corporate if I could or F-Secure.
     
  14. tazdevl

    tazdevl Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2004
    Posts:
    837
    Location:
    AZ, USA
    KAV 5 has great detection rates, can't argue with that. It's a great AV. Scan times decreased to 48 minutes after the most recent mantenance pack. If I remember correctly, the first scan was over an hour, then once the files were tagged scan times dropped off.

    ADS isn't a huge deal and has gotten blown out of proportion. The biggest issue with them is that KAV tags the files on the computer and doesn't give you the option to not use them or at least warn they are going to tag your files. If you uninstall KAV, the tags are left behind. Again, most people have zero issues with it, though tehnically the ADS

    System Restore issue... I had fragmentation across my hard drive. Not just system restore. However, I was able to use my restore points, so I can't speak to the issue if them be rendered useless.

    I think a lot of people that had problems with KAV should have just done a fresh install. The AV market seems to be very much like graphics cards market 18 months or so ago... if you changed manufacturers (ATI to nVIDIA or vice versa) the best option was a fresh install if you wanted your card to run well. THere was just too much crap left behind that caused conflicts and an unstable system.

    The other thing to remember is that you need to take the information you read in forums with a grain of salt. There are a lot of people that have no direct experience or enough information to be dangerous... not to mention the parrot effect (folks that just mimic what others have said).
     
  15. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Posts:
    997
    Location:
    India
    i agree with tazdevl. i never use system restore so i can't vouch for trouble related with it. first of all let me say that those ADS tags are just the checksum of those files. no way they mess up the system and infact they REDUCE scantime by skipping files that aren't modified. but people generally don't notice the reduction in scantime because of Kaspersky update policy LOL. but between updates it DOES speed up the scanning and improve the performance. i never had the fragmentation issue infact with NOD32 i'm having more fragments.

    KAV 5 is idiot-proof, if you want more configurability then wait for the Pro version or downgrade to 4.5 but in no way 4.5 is technically finer than the latest version. after the 142 service pack KAV improved a lot and it runs nicely.
     
  16. Mele20

    Mele20 Former Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Posts:
    2,495
    Location:
    Hilo, Hawaii
    I know of users whose systems were rendered unusable by KAV tagging. You want to risk that possiblity fine. I don't. Further, I don't trust KAV or anyone who wants to place ADS tags on my box to not place spyware or anything they want on those tags. Just do some reading about ADS and you will see that it is a security issue and AV vendors, of all vendors, should not be raising even the slightest concern among their users as to what they placing on the files. I got rid of all tagging and a lot of it was Dell garbage and other applications tagging some of my files probably for not so innocent reasons.

    As for saying KAV 5 is technically better than 4.5 on what basis do you make that claim? 5.0 has no quarantine and doesn't scan as thoroughly (4.5 found stuff that 5.0 could not) and anything "idiot proof" is obviously dumbed down for the idiots. Further, I am getting tired of people suggesting that I should be thrilled to spend a lot more money to get 5.0Pro that has features I don't want. 4.5 personal has everything anyone could want at the personal version price. It is wrong of Kaspersky to expect users to cough up a lot more money to get the configurability and scanning power of 4.5 simply because Kaspersky decided to make a idiot version of 5.0. They should offer a 5.0 personal version of 4.5 at the same price as 4.5personal. It is insulting also to say that KAV made the idiot version for OEMs. I have Dell computers and that is most insulting that because I buy Dells instead of building my own, I am an idiot and need an idiot version?

    As for system restore, I could not use a SINGLE restore point and I actually tried all 80+ that I had after running KAV 5.0. (I was deperate to restore to a point that fixed a problem with Outlook Express as I had tried everything else to fix it short of reinstalling the OS). I can't say for sure that KAV was the reason I could not use any restore point but, in the past, the few times I have used System Restore, if the first one or two points I chose were unsuccessful, always the third or fourth was successful. In this instance to have three months of at least one restore point made daily and none of them worked would make KAV 5.0 the suspected culprit as I had not installed anything else that I had any reason to think would mess with every restore point I had and KAV 5.0 messing with System Restore is a known issue.
     
  17. Arin

    Arin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Posts:
    997
    Location:
    India
    dear Mele20, you sound major upset. so i don't think its a nice idea to argue. just let me point out one simple thing. you are your own boss and there is no way we can tell what is going inside your mind. so don't take our suggestion too seriously. all our suggestions are meant for suggestive purpose only it doesn't mean we are forcing or endorcing some product. if you don't like then don't use the product.

    if you read the release notes properly you'll see the difference between KAV 4.5 and 5. there is no point repeating it. as for ADS tags, i know what they are. thats why i know simple checksum content won't render atleast my machine unusable. yes the whole ADS issue is confusing and it was introduced my Microsoft for some filesystem compatibility. but now major AVs scan inside these streams too. so don't be so scared. BTW what do you mean by KAV 5 has no quarantine and 4.5 is more thorough than 5? please provide us with some data.
     
  18. Blackcat

    Blackcat Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    4,010
    Location:
    Christchurch, UK
    At the present time, users of KAV 4.5 Personal can use their key-file for the Pro version (obviously the extra features are not available).

    Now some Kaspersky support staff have suggested that this MAY also be the case for KAV 5 i.e. the hoped for extra-configurability in the Pro version will be available to Personal users, FOR NO EXTRA COST, but again not the additional options offered in the PRO ( Office Guard, KAV Inspector, ability to scan network drives and integration with the BAT email client ).

    Therefore, the suggestion that more money is to be paid out again by Personal users for the extra tweaking capacity MAY not be true, unless you have a crystal ball that we can all use. This is all supposition until the new beta and the gold release are seen.

    At the present time, potential new users can trail and purchase KAV 4.5 then upgrade to KAV 5 after most of the minor bugs have been removed, for no extra cost.

    Overall, I hope not too many potential users of KAV 5 Personal are put off trialling the program by some of the posts here. Let the latest version settle down first, give Kaspersky time to iron out any MINOR problems, ( System restore is not a GENERAL problem as lots of people do not have this installed, and many who do (myself) switch it off ) decide whether YOU think ADS streams are a potential headache then make up YOUR own mind. I have!
     
  19. Sling Shot

    Sling Shot Guest

    Why not use Extendia AVK single KAV engine for $9.95 downloaded. I have heard that it uses the KAV 4.5 engine.

    I have been using it for about three weeks now on a slow Window 98 machine with a Pentium 366 Mhz processor. Virus definitions are updated daily unlike Norton.

    Anyway, you can pick up MCaffee AV 8.0 OEM for about $11.00 shipped.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.