ATI 10

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by phasechange, Oct 7, 2006.

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  1. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    I bought ATI 9 on the 17th of July and Acronis haven't released any updates since I bought it however ATI10 is now released in German. I have some questions:

    1. when will ATI10 in English be released?
    2. will users who bought after a certain date get a free upgrade?
    3. does ATI10 support 64 bit Vista and where can I read about how this is supported as I believe Vista has a different defrag engine?
    4. will ATI9 be updated to work with Vista?

    I realise I may not like all the answers however I would like to know. I do like ATI and think it's a very good product.

    Regards,
    Fairy
     
  2. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

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    Myself I bought it in August and I am also interested to know if we can get a free upgrade.

    I also like ATI but I think there are too many Upgrade and not enough Update of the Software, IMHO
     
  3. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    The defrag engine is not relevant to the version of just about any app.
     
  4. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    Actually they have about the run of the mill number of upgrades -- the last one came sooner than normal but was free.

    Otoh, they have a relatively large number of updates.

    sh


     
  5. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    Let us keep this thread on the technical aspects and such brought up by the original poster - miscellaneous debate and discussion about TI10 should continue in this earlier thread.
     
  6. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

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    After it has been thoroughly tested by the German market, no doubt.
    I wouldn't imagine it would be free, based on date of purchase, or many of us would storm the gates asking for similar discounts.
    Could anyone tell us about the history of TI version upgrade pricing?
    Acronis support has only said that once Vista is in public release, they will offer support for it.
    I would very much doubt this. The more important question for ATI 9 is, will it continue to be supported, and work as designed with the current OSes it does function under?

    Since Vista has onboard Imaging and File Backup, I wonder how much demand there will be for ATI, at least from casual Vista users? Microsoft has been adding features to its OS for years, such as Microsoft Photo Editor. I still use Photoshop, and will continue to. As I will likely continue to use ATI, though time will tell. Microsoft has a history of rolling out buggy and incomplete software. I'd rather let the Imaging pros at Acronis design and build my backup software. Though, many will opt to take the path of least resistance, and simply use Vista's backup programs.

    Of course, there will be a large installed base of XP (& earlier Windows versions) personal and business users who will want ATI for many years after Vista debuts.

    Regards

    Here's the link to the English TI 10 User Guide:

    http://download.acronis.com/pdf/TrueImage10_ug.en.pdf
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2006
  7. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    However I believe Vista will do background defragmentation automatically although it can be disabled and if not disabled this will make the current incremental and differential backup process in ATI inefficient and possibly even ineffective.

    http://img318.imageshack.us/my.php?image=defrag5yf.png

    I think this is relevant and a valid question.

    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_ff_auto_defrag.asp

    Fairy
     
  8. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    That's no diifferent than any backup engine.
    ESpecially if one is foolish enough to do background defrags.
    Scheduling periodic defrags might be OK, as long as one understands the impact, but turning on background defrag is amongst the dumbest things one can do.
     
  9. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

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    Yes, and we won't catch Howard riding the Vista wave anytime soon. ;)

    Since few users remember to run defrag...Vista has background automated defragging enabled by default.

    At least, that's what they are saying, in public. As this article sent in by fairyliquidizer tells, Microsoft is still very much up to its old tricks...trying to trip up, or devour, the competition.

    McAfee Places Full-Page Ad in Financial Times Blasting Microsoft Oct. 2, 2006

    http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=4403

    If, with background defragging running, the average PC user attempts to run ATI, they may come here posting,

    ATI incompatible with Vista!

    And, Microsoft wins one more battle. What else are they planning in their stealth attack on the software community?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2006
  10. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I find this somewhat amusing after reading zillions of posts from users weeping and wailing about some installed TI service (that isn't doing anything, takes very little memory, and is most likely swapped out to disk) degrading their performance.

    Now having a defragger thrashing away in the background is seen as a performance enhancement!
     
  11. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    I have not yet seen Acronis announce that any version of TI will work with Vista.

    Calling a product incompatible is outright nonesense unless the product's manufacturer has claimed compatibility.

    The defragger is outright irrelevant, and causes no more problems than with current defraggers.
     
  12. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    Howard, I think we can agree to disagree. The standard defrag in Windows has not been automatic in the past. Sure the user or ATI could disable the defragger by default however there has to be a middleground especially as the background defrag of vista is a partial defrag ran at low priority. Today ATI users have to manually balance defraging and running incremental backups. I would like to see a smarter balance. Say defraging being linked with Full/Incremental cycles or monitoring the changes made by the defrag utility.

    Ultimately Howard you may be a very knowledgable user who can make all the right decisions but ATI Home is targeted at average users who are not as technically knowledgable as you are.

    Fairy
     
  13. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    Defragging at 4AM on a Sunday isn't going to interfere with my gaming especially as the defrag process in Vista runs at a much lower priority than in previous Windows versions so as to be unobtrusive.
     
  14. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    Couldn't a backup program figure out which files need to be backed up basd on time stamps and then build a list of sectors based on that list? I understand that if this is not done, then defragging makes inc/diff backups pretty much useless, but it doesn't seem like it has to be that way, it's just a matter of whether othe backup software is designed to deal with the fact that many find defragging useful, even background defragging.
     
  15. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    This will be my last posting in this thread.

    Defragging is irrelevant as to whether a file's content or attributes have changed.

    Defragging affects ONLyY the way the files are laid out on the drive.

    Image based backups use, let's call them, LBNs (Logical Block Numbers) to identify the locations of the chunks of each file. If those locations change, the backup program must again backup the files affected.

    When defragging, most files will have their LBNs changed, it's got nothing to do with whether file content or attributes have changed.

    And, the backup program also has to check various file atributes, including size and times, to determine whether there may have been a change to a file, even if the LBNs remain unchanged.

    Bye bye!
     
  16. Keith Weisshar

    Keith Weisshar Registered Member

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    I just purchased and registered TI9 today. When is an upgrade to TI10 coming out?
     
  17. tachyon42

    tachyon42 Registered Member

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    I'm guessing but I imagine Acronis will wait a few weeks to see if the release of the German version of TI10 brings to light any obvious important bugs.
     
  18. Allen L.

    Allen L. Registered Member

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    In other words, if the "important" bugs are not noticeably visable is A-OK? It will be a sure thing they will try to throw something new to v.10 from v.9, so you can count on some bugs...just hope this is not a long, drawn out comedy of errors once again.

    Can't understand this kind of logic, with issuing v.10, with v.9 not even finished to a reasonable state...bet they (Acronis) wish they had jumped from v.8 (which was very solid in the final version) direct to v.10 with a fully tested in-house beta tested (if they have more that 2 testers) program, instead of just throwing it out and holding their breath once again, and read and start answer this forum once again. But business wise, we are free workers!

    I'll bet that with the issue of a US v.10 there are at least 3 updated version changes in 2 months after the issue, and that's being very conservative. Get ready "beta-ers"...shapen your pencils. :)
     
  19. tachyon42

    tachyon42 Registered Member

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    No, I didn't (and wouldn't) say that.
    I was trying to indicate that if the German version has been out in the real world for a few weeks without any obvious "major" problems it would seem reasonable to me that Acronis release an English language version.
    By "important" and "major" I mean users experiencing problems of data being damaged, partitions corrupted, etc.
    One would hope such situations would not occur but in reality such things do happen with new software (I'm not specifically commenting on Acronis software here).
    Of course, it is not A-OK to release software if the software vendor knows of bugs which "important" (see my 'definition' above), regardless of whether or not they are noticeably visible to users.
     
  20. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    I dont' think it thrashes around in the background, rather it thrashes around during otherwise idle computer moments. You can get defraggers now that work that way.

    sh

     
  21. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Yes, you are correct but there is a service or whatever running in the background to fire it up and stop it along with the attendant overhead of keeping track of where it is and finishing off the moves in the queue.
     
  22. jelenko

    jelenko Registered Member

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    Howard - I thought the question was whether a backup application could avoid the problem where the size of TI's incremental backup can be very large when files have been moved around by defragging. I.e., by detecting attributes of individual files, the size of the incremental file would only be the size of the files changed since the last back up.

    I know you know the answer is "yes". I've seen you in the Retro forums.
     
  23. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    This post here is a good example:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=737961#post737961
     
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