ASUS Low Radiation Router (JRS Eco Wireless)

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Rasheed187, Jun 18, 2020.

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  1. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Sounds like a gimmick to me.

    And I find it odd there's a picture of the PCMag.com logo, but when I search for jrs eco router or jrs low radiation router on the PCMag website, I get nothing.

    Wifi works with standard industry protocols. There are also specific frequencies and maximum signal strengths allowed. Sure, you can reduce the signal strength, but that will effectively reduce the effective range. Who wants that?

    Here is the ASUS RT-AC66U office web page for the router they say has this. See anywhere in the ASUS document any mention of this feature? I don't either.
     
  3. reasonablePrivacy

    reasonablePrivacy Registered Member

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    Somebody who lives inside small flat?
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    If you live in a small flat, use 5GHz. It is ideal for that.

    If worried about RF radiation frying your brain or making you sterile, don't ever put your cell phone up to your ear. Don't ever put your cell phone in your pocket. In fact, get rid of your cell phone and move miles away from any cell phone or microwave tower and TV broadcast antenna too. Then invest in tin-foil hats.
     
  5. reasonablePrivacy

    reasonablePrivacy Registered Member

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    It is not good enough in some cases. I live in Europe and here people are not building houses out of wood. Sometimes one load-bearing wall is enough to decrease 5Ghz signal strength to unacceptably low strength level.
    I looked at description and it seems it is mostly about not wasting energy on transmission when no device is connected etc
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Not the point. Yes, I know some times one barrier (wall, floor, or ceiling) is enough to degrade 5GHz signal strength. Even as little as 30 feet with a direct line-of-sight (no barriers in the way) can degrade the 5GHz signal significantly. Then you use 2.4GHz or better yet, go Ethernet.
    Which is true, but in reality, is just a bunch of marketing "hype" and hogwash.

    I am NOT disputing the concept here. You are right, when no devices are connected, the router will not be constantly (or up to 10 times per second) sending out a signal. But we are not talking about 50,000 watt radio signals here. We are not even talking about 1 watt signals. A Wifi router's transmitting signal strength is measured in milliwatts - a few thousandths of 1 watt!

    According to this site, the average wifi-router consumes 6 watts of power. That's about the same as a child's night light. So the amount of energy saved will hardly pay for that BMW you want - or even a kid's bicycle. And for sure, the more users and devices you have on your network, less and less energy savings will be realized. And remember, a wireless router is NOT simply a wireless access point (WAP). There is also an Ethernet router and typically a 4-port Ethernet switch in that box too, and they also consume some of that 6 watts of power.

    I point out a couple things. This is nothing new. Those two articles (which I point out, come from a single source) go back to September 2019.

    If this is such a big deal,
    1. Why aren't there other JRS Eco Low Radiation routers from ASUS?
    2. Where's are all the JRS Eco Low Radiation routers from competing makers like Netgear, D-Link, Linksys, TP-Link?
    3. Why doesn't the ASUS webpage for that router in that article tout this feature?
    4. Why is there a PCMag logo, but no PCMag article to be found on this topic?
    5. Why are there no articles by other IT sites and IT journalists and bloggers extolling the virtues of this feature?
    The answers are all the same and simple - the savings in energy and energy costs may be real, they are just too tiny to be of any significance.

    If you want to save a few pennies a year in energy costs, that's great. But this is easily accomplished by unplugging your router when not in use, or using a timer on your router. Or set a time "in" your router. My Linksys, for example, has a setting in the admin menu to turn off one or both wifi bands. There is also an option to turn wifi off at specific times - like when I am in bed. Many other routers have similar features - often found under Parental Control.

    One last thing. The latest wifi standard, 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6) implements several energy savings features for both the AP and the wireless devices. Of course, Wi-Fi 6 is still new, and as always, the connecting devices need to support Wi-Fi 6 to take full advantage of the energy saving features. So it will take some time before the market is saturated with these devices. But the point is, if you need a new router today, look into a WiFi 6 router and then you will be ready.
     
  7. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Guys, thanks for the feedback. Just to clarify, this router is meant for people who are somewhat worried about the health risks that may be caused by radiation. So it will basically stop sending any signals when no devices (smartphone or laptop) are connected, but even if it sends out the signal it's with a 90% reduced pulse frequency.

    But the thing is, this is all made possible by the "JRS Eco 100 WiFi operating system" that's installed on the ASUS router. So my question is can you really tweak hardware made by a third party company with the help of this OS/firmware?

    The thing is, it seems like it's not actually ASUS that's selling it. It's basically a modified router selled by JRS Eco, but I wonder if this is allowed by ASUS. Other brands don't have this feature because most people probably don't care about this issue. But I do know that Gigaset (Siemens) make "Eco-Mode" DECT phones.

    https://www.jrseco.com/pcat/low-radiation-wifi-routers-jrs-eco-wifi/
    https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/what-is-gigaset-eco-dect.html
     
  8. reasonablePrivacy

    reasonablePrivacy Registered Member

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    It is just average and when you are not cautious you may buy 12 W or 20 W router. Some people have a time in their life when flat is mostly to take shower, have safe place for their property and shelter during sleep.
    Well, I have something of miser (I hope it is right word. You know Scrooge McDuck, right?) myself. Why would I spent a few penny if I don't have to and be eco-friendly as a side-effect?

    I don't see any timer functionality in my router. My router sometimes needs more than 5 minutes to find right signal (it's rare, but it happened). I prefer not to disable my router when it is not needed.
     
  9. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    You can indeed enhance the functionality of routers by using custom firmware.

    For ASUS routers I recommend the custom Asuswrt-Merlin firmware.

    Note that ASUS publishes the sources of their firmware under the GPL license, so the guy making these modifications is required to publish his modified source code. If he does that you could compile the firmware yourself and buy a regular ASUS router (which might be cheaper) and install that firmware on it. If he does not publish the code this modification is illegal.

    PS: Even if this “ECO mode” really works, is it useless as soon as you have any IoT devices that use WiFi?
     
  10. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I feel you have buried your head in the sand and ignoring what is being said. :( Once again, that router power consumption specification does not mean the RF signal is 12 or 20W.

    As I noted above, that wireless router is really 3 (sometimes 4 or even 5) discrete (separate) network devices that just happen share a common main circuit board, case and power supply. A wireless router in an integrated device that includes the router itself and a 4-port Ethernet switch. These devices will be on and consuming some of the total power 24/7/365. Also integrated in that same box will be the WAP (wireless access point). And the receiver side of that WAP is consuming power too. Therefore, only a small percentage of that 12-20W is being used by the transmitter side of the WAP.

    Some of those devices integrate the modem too for 4 discrete devices, all consuming power. And then some even have a built in voice over Internet (VoIP) device in there too.

    Also, WAPs use "omni-directional" antennas. That is, the RF signal being sent out from the antenna in all directions. Not just to the North and South, but East and West and all points in between. And up and down in all directions too. So the amount of RF energy reaching a single point in space (your head, for example) is miniscule compared to the total amount being transmitted and that is already a very very tiny amount - by necessity, and by law!!!!

    Right. Meaning there is no demand for it and that because it is unnecessary.

    It is similar to the marketing hype about Titanium certified 80-PLUS power supplies. They just are not worth it. It would take many years for the savings in energy costs to make up for the significant higher initial purchase cost. So sticking with Gold (or maybe Platinum if on sale) makes more sense. But sadly, many pay will pay a premium price to get those 1 or 2 extra points in efficiency, not realizing more energy was consumed and more hazardous waste was created just to make that PSU. :(

    Totally irrelevant to this discussion. DECT phones are "cordless" phones used with landline phone systems. DECT has nothing to do with wireless computer networks. And the ECO mode in that DECT system reduces power when the system detects the handset is in very close proximity to the base station. That's not how wifi networks work. You are not holding your wireless PC or wireless notebook right up next to your head when using your computer.
     
  11. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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  13. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Well, certain people are worried about this and no it's not irrelevant because ECO mode is designed to reduce radiation, with both DECT phones and this ASUS router that we're talking about. If WIFI is indeed a health risk or not is another discussion. And again, this is not about saving energy, really don't know why you guys keep talking about this.

    So basically, when no devices are connected, the ASUS router stops sending any signal, and even when it sends the signal it reduces electromagnetic emission, see link. But I just wondered if the working of this router can be changed by third party firmware, since it's not ASUS itself who offers this feature. But clearly you guys don't have an answer.

    https://www.jrseco.com/faqs/eco-wifi-90-reduced-pulse-rate/
     
  14. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    OK cool thanks for the info, this is quite important to know. This JRS Eco company is actually selling the modified firmware (see link), so according to you this isn't even allowed? I'm not sure about IoT devices, but I don't see how it would be useless? I don't know if this "ECO Mode" reduces the strength and range of the WIFI signal though.

    https://www.jrseco.com/p/firmware-full-eco-jrs-eco-100-wifi/
     
  15. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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  16. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    I have been told it is only allowed if he publishes any changes he made to the source code that ASUS published under the GPL license.

    "The JRS Eco 100 models even take it one step further and automatically switch to a completely radiation-free Full Eco stand-by mode when no wifi devices are connected."

    I would guess that IoT devices contact a router quite frequently?
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Certain people worry and talk about Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and claim we never landed on the moon too. That does not make it fact.

    Your last article is pushing 4 years old. Don't you think if this was a big deal, this technology would be widespread across the industry and all the treehuggers and medical communities would be creating an uproar over it? Of course they would. Yet I can tell you for a fact they aren't and that not only are more and more hospitals and medical offices implementing wifi throughout their facilities, but "mesh" networks in those very facilities (and homes) are rapidly growing in popularity too.

    I think it might be time to look into Tin futures again.

    It is irrelevant because ECO mode with DECT phones is a totally different technology and concept than JRS Eco 100. And DECT phones have nothing to do with wifi networks.

    If you want to eliminate the wifi radiation in your home, use Ethernet only. Period. If you want to reduce it, disable the "smart" features in your TVs, BlueRay players, door bells, lightbulbs, thermostats, exercise machines, security cameras, etc.
     
  18. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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    From Blog, The Dana-Farber Cancer Institute:

    "The amount of radiation absorbed from a wireless router is minor compared to the EMFs transmitted from taking a call on a cellphone."

    https://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/2019/07/does-wifi-exposure-lead-to-cancer/

    From Consumer Reports:

    "...because the distances traveled by WiFi and Bluetooth signals tend to be much shorter (between your router and your laptop, for instance, or your smartphone and your wireless speaker) the RF can be transmitted at a much lower power than from a cell phone, which could reduce the effect it has on living tissue..."

    https://www.consumerreports.org/rad...ut-radiation-from-wifi-and-bluetooth-devices/

    From How-To Geek:

    "Wi-Fi poses absolutely no threat to anyone’s health."

    https://www.howtogeek.com/234817/dont-worry-wi-fi-isnt-dangerous/

    In Other Words:

    What @Bill_Bright said
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  19. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Did you see me saying that it's a fact? There are plenty of studies done, some say stuff like WIFI, Bluetooth and 4G/5G are not a health risk, others say they are, people need to make up their own mind. I already explained that this topic was about a technical question related to the ASUS router, so stay on topic or don't respond, same goes for Hawki.

    That's the thing, most people don't think it's a big deal. But for people who do care, I think ECO Mode is a nice feature because it limits radiation and people don't have to completely stop using stuff like DECT and WIFI. And who cares about that this article is 4 years old?

    Come on, this isn't rocket science, is it really this hard to understand what I mean? This ECO Mode thing is designed to reduce radiation from both DECT phones and certain routers. That's why I mentioned it, do you now see how this is related? Yes we all know that DECT and WIFI are two different things, but that's not the point.
     
  20. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Yes, if you have got devices that need a constant WIFI connection then you probably don't need this router, because then you are probably not that worried about radiation. But what you're basically saying that it's not allowed to sell modified firmware? Weird, because that's basically their whole business, obviously they don't actually make the ASUS router hardware, it's their software that brings out these new "ECO Mode" feature that apparently ASUS doesn't offer within its own firmware. Is it difficult to install new firmware and can it cause any serious problems?
     
  21. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    Installing custom (Asuswrt-Merlin) firmware is simple; like uploading a file from a browser.

    There is a risk of bricking the router, but that's true when updating the firmware of many devices.
     
  22. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    No they don't. It is not (or at least "should" not be) about personal opinions. It is about the science and scientific fact.

    Note above in my post #6 where I said in bold, "I am NOT disputing the concept". Yes, it limits radiation but the point for "Eco" modes is to reduce power consumption.

    That's why the second part of your statement there makes no sense. Why would people "have to" completely stop using DECT and wifi? They wouldn't.

    NO! It is not. This "ECO Mode thing" is designed to reduce power consumption. "Eco" is short for "economical". And it comes out of the concept of not harming the environment - being "eco-friendly". This comes from the fact generating electricity typically comes from burning environmentally harmful fossil fuels.

    Several methods are used to make these devices Eco-friendly. One method is to use more efficient switching power supplies instead of inefficient linear power supplies. Another method involves increasing the intervals between handshaking ("here I am, anyone there?") signals like that router. Another method is to reduce the signal strength of the RF for devices that are in close proximity (like ECO DECT). Another method may be to decrease the brightness of indicator LEDs or disable them completely, or to dim screen displays. The point is, they are ECO modes because they are designed to help the "economy" and the environment by saving money on energy - thus [hopefully] reducing the need to product energy. Reducing "radiation" is marketing fluff.

    So if you want lump various different technologies that help cut energy consumption, production, and energy costs together and call them related and thus relevant, then fine. I am all for protecting the environment so future generations have clean air to breath and clean water to drink.

    But stop saying this is not about the health risks in one breath then make comments about radiation in the next.

    See What is ECO DECT? And note the scientific facts and what the WHO says about the health risks of these devices.
     
  23. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Well, that's why I said that I didn't want to discuss this matter. There are plenty of scientific reports that link certain health related problems to radiation. And not all people are affected by this problem, but for the ones who are, it's very real and they couldn't care less about reports that state there is no risk.

    There have been numerous "scientific" reports about Roundup not being a health-risk, and most of these reports were sponsored by Monsanto, if you know what I mean. Same goes for 5G, it's a multi-billion industry, do you really think they care about people who develop health problems because of it?

    Come on Bill, this discussion is getting silly. OK, you're right in case of the Gigaset DECT phones, it's officially designed to save energy. But why do you think they even mention that stuff about radiation? Because they know that people who are worried about this issue will most likely choose for a Gigaset.

    However, the concept of the JRS ECO router is exactly the same hence the name "ECO Mode", but it's clearly meant for people who are trying to reduce radiation. That's what this whole topic is about. So yes, both these DECT phones and the JRS ECO router can help with reducing radiation and possibly reduce any healthrisks.

    Why? Because certain people that are sensitive to this stuff might develop health problems when DECT and WIFI are constantly sending out the signal.

    https://www.radiationhealthrisks.com/safe-low-radiation-cordless-phones/
     
  24. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    And yet you keep at it.
    But NOT to wifi radiation. That's where you need to first, learn the facts, then second, keep them straight. Not all RF radiation is the same. Nor are all RF radiating devices the same.

    You also probably should take a class on marketing gimmicks because clearly, you are falling for them all. "Radiation" is a buzz word marketing weenies know get the tin-foil hat wearers in an uproar - just as we have seen in this thread. So they use that buzz word to help sell their products.

    The concept is NOT the same. One saves energy, the other does indeed reduce the signal strength of the RF radiation. Those are two different concepts.

    Plus, you don't put wifi router up to your head like you would a phone. So again, totally different issues here.

    Now you can keep discussing this discussion you keep claiming you don't want to discuss :rolleyes: but those are the facts. If you don't believe I know a little bit about RF radiation, see the link in my sig.

    Now I am done with this thread and discussing this marketing gimmick.
     
  25. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

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