Any one tried FD-ISR and Deepfreeze together?

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by eniqmah, Aug 8, 2007.

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  1. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    I'm about to roll the FD trial onto my desktop which is using Deepfreeze. Just have to ask...Since FD doesn't require a reboot, I can install it while my system is Frozen, then make a snapshot and store that snapshot on external disk? If so, I won't have problems installing FD again after rebooting, and revert to the old snapshot sitting on the ext HDD?


    This would be the best combination ever, if it can work.
     
  2. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    How are you going to revert to the old snapshot if you don't have FD-ISR loaded after a reboot ?
     
  3. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    install it?
    Did I miss something?
    Don't I just reinstall FD, create any snapshot, copy the snapshot I have sitting on the external HDD over, and boot from THAT one?
     
  4. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    You'd have to boot your computer thawed then reinstall FD and boot to the imported snapshot. If you tried this while frozen it won't work.

    Its for this reason that i don't use fd-isr and deepfreeze together.
     
  5. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I have used FD-ISR and DeepFreeze together FD-ISR follows:

    Install FD-ISR with primary and then make a secondary snapshot. Install Deepfreeze to the secondary and freeze that snapshot with DeepFreeze. Now you have an ordinary primary and a frozen secondary. At the moment I have one machine this way - using Returnil rather than FD-ISR.

    You want to do something different ? but I don't understand what you are trying to achieve
     
  6. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    That's what I want to do. It seems to work fine, at least on the VMs. I have 3 snapshots, all installed with Deepfreeze, 1 is booting frozen. That's the one I'd use every day. 1 of the thawed ones will be used for testing things, and the other one will be used to restore the tester. :)
    This makes it complete. Looks like I might be sending money to Leapfrog. Thanks for the replies.
     
  7. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Eniqmah can you keep us updated as you go a long? I'm interested in this myself.

    I'm curious how any imaging program will work with DF installed.
     
  8. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    DeepFreeze 6 and Reurnil both work in more or less the same way when it comes to imaging. Before making an image according to the program makers it is nceessary to turn off the protection. with deepfreeze you reboot in thawed mode and then "set the flag" and turn the machine off. In the case of Acronis you then boot to the emergency disk and make the image.

    Returnil is much easier in that you turn off the protection mode, reboot and then just make your image.

    To be fair to Deepfreeze I have ignored set the flag and made an image just by thawing and rebooting and the world did not come to an end but if you ask faronics they will advise the more complex solution.
     
  9. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    Hey, thanks Long View for the heads up.

    I hope this combo can work okay together.
     
  10. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    Here are some results.

    FD_ISR really takes the fun out of waiting for ATI to restore an image...bummer.
     

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  11. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    KISS - Just don't make any images while frozen and all will be well.
     
  12. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    Actually, you can image while frozen, you can restore the image and any/all snapshots in that image could be frozen. You just can't restore it unless you're in a thawed state.
     
  13. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I appreciate that you are doing this for test purposes but have you thought of a
    significant reason why anyone would want to make an image of a frozen system ? Ask Faronics and they will advise against. Returnil also say that protection should be turned off. For the same reason that I only make full images - to keep things simple - I would only want to make images of thawed or unfrozen systems.

    Have you tried Returnil yet ? Personally I like to run in a permanent freeze state but Returnil has a couple of advantages - one being the ability to Freeze a snapshot for a session only.
     
  14. eniqmah

    eniqmah Registered Member

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    There's only 1 reason to image a frozen partition: laziness. You have your system partition set up with 1 frozen snapshot which you use daily + any other snapshots and you just wanna image that partition for the quickest recovery.
    Without FD-ISR, I wouldn't image a frozen partition, it wouldn't work. It doesn't take much work to [use in freeze mode>thaw>image>restore>freeze>use in freeze mode]...but then it takes LESS work to [image in freeze mode>restore>use in freeze mode]
    Haven't tried returnil, don't really want to... I wanna make Deepfreeze work for its money first.
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Due to my troubles with SP activation, SP is installed in the wrong snapshot : my frozen on-line snapshot.
    So I do my backups in a frozen snapshot all the time without troubles, except one : the numbering of backup files, that's all.
    I restored many of these images already without troubles.

    If I re-freeze my on-line snapshot, the numbering of backups is OK, but I usually forget this.

    SP was supposed to be installed in my off-line snapshot, that is not frozen, but I can't activate SP, because I can't go on-line, there is no protection, except a disabled internet connection.
    Even when there was protection, I can't activate SP either, because you can't install SP twice on the same computer or another snapshot.

    If SP's activation ever causes a problem again during the re-installation from scratch in September, I'm going to ditch it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2007
  16. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    They appear to have taken the view that it is worth losing sales to the general public due to the activation issues, rather than losing business due to piracy. I am one who can not afford to pay that sort of money for software, and then have problems activating due to numerous installs.
    On one hand I feel it to be unfair to genuine customers, but on the other, it may make more commercial sense. Be interesting to know just how many "pirates" actually end up buying the software because of the activation. Not sure it would be that many.
    The other reason for them limiting their sales with activation issues seems to be their inability to provide support to the less knowledgable masses. They may have a point there, but in the long term I'm not so sure it is a sound policy.
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    It's not the "inability" to provide support. But would you do something know will lose you money. I suspect not. Activation is a real pain, but it's not just with SP, but with many top programs. Just a fact of life.

    Erik. If I were you, I'd just wait until your ready to do a new installation and then contact them. Like it or not, it's something you will face more and more with top software. Problem is the piracy.
     
  18. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    Peter. By "inability" I meant they do not feel able to justify a level of support to everyone who might use the program. It would mean increasing their support staff quite a lot I imagine. I think they themselves have admitted that this is their view.
    No of course I would not do something knowing I would lose money. 2 Points though.

    1. Do they KNOW they would lose money? If their support documentation is adequate, and they have made the program as user friendly as possible,they might be pleasantly surprised at how the average user might get on.

    2. I think by pricing the software so high, and causing concerns over the activation, they will lose a LOT of sales to people like myself, who, although not being completely happy with the alternatives eg. ATI, Paragon, are able to do with minimal or zero support.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    On 1. Follow the Acronis Forum. That is enough of an answer for me.

    2. Depends on their business model. Again a bit of math. Their main target model is enterprises using the IT edition. That is $3500/YEAR. So say there policies as you outline costs the sales to 100 wilders users. Thats a flat $7000 period. I do understand that reasoning. In my business, I have about 130 clients and I charge of my service on a rate per service charge and my clients are fine with it. Periodically I'll get a call from someone who wants to use me but wants to have a flat monthly few(which typically is lower than what I charge). I just apologize and say I don't work that way. I usually hear "gee if you did, I could bring you 10 people" I just flat am not interested due to the problems involved. I simply don't care about that business, as to me it's more trouble than it's worth.

    That's why I do understand, and just have to make the decision that the product is worth it to me which in the case of ShadowProtect it is.

    Pete
     
  20. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much over ShadowProtect's restraints OR heavy costs. If you already jumped onboard with them you have to make the best of all they will afford you. Their decision doesn't encourage me to make recommendations to others and since they "NEED" to focus on Corporate interests then that's what they have to do to stay afloat these days.

    I will remind everyone that ShadowProtect fortunately for most IS NOT and WILL NOT become the end all of efficient backup solutions, there WILL be others in the future.

    So don't fret. Yeah it's purported to be a good program and i don't doubt that it is, but it is still a "SOFTWARE", and the program development world with even newer ideas are always going to come along eventually. :)
     
  21. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Fully agree - It is only an imaging program when all is said and done and there are numerous alternatives to consider.
     
  22. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I agree,imaging app.are just that,but a good working imaging software can be the cause for a more easy live.
     
  23. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    For me imaging is an essential. Personally I have been using Acronis since version 6 without any major issues. Others have had problems with Acronis and have claimed that Paragon or ShadowProtect or Ghost or XXXX are "better".
    Well I could never get Paragon to work with my systems and the cost and activation issues have put me off ShadowProtect.

    In the end all that matters is that I have an imaging program that works for me -
    I leave the question of which is best for others.

    Combinations of Acronis, FD-ISR, DeepFreeze and or Returnil all make for an easier life BUT at the end of the day they are only programs and just like Qemm
    and countless other programs will one day, probably quite soon, will be replaced by better alternatives.
     
  24. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Yes that's the way of live.One day we made our appearence here on earth and sooner or later we make our dismiss,there are no exceptions.
     
  25. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    @Eniqmah

    This may be a day late and a dollar short but thanks for the info in post#10. I'm going to do this but I need a few more answers.

    How is your adventure going with DF and imaging? I don't know how true this is but someone on this forum mentioned you can't resize your partition once DF is installed. Have you tried this?
     
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