Advice Request for Wireless Router Please!

Discussion in 'hardware' started by NewtonsApple98, Sep 22, 2010.

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  1. NewtonsApple98

    NewtonsApple98 Registered Member

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    Hey there! Anyone have any suggestions for a good quality wireless home router (supporting 1 hardwired desktop and 2 laptops) with a focus on security? I'd like to be able to achieve "Stealth Mode" and pass the "Leak Test" (I know opinions of the value of this are hotly contested but let's leave that aside for now if we may). I can configure most of this on Comodo, but my current router doesn't have the ability to ignore pings (I'd rather the router have the option built in than manually port-forward to some non-existent IP). It would be great to get one for $150 or less, though I don't mind paying a little more for good security features. Could really use some advice asap! Thanks!
     
  2. burebista

    burebista Registered Member

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    I'm with D-Link DIR-615 rev. D3 and latest DD-WRT firmware. All green in GRC Shields Up tests. :)
     
  3. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    Start here with the performance charts, which you can play with to see many comparisons
    http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/

    You can also click on each router to read a review they've done on each one.

    DLinks DIR-655 and 665, as well as Netgears WNDR3700, have been favorites of many articles/boards for quite a while now.
     
  4. SweX

    SweX Registered Member

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    I'm using this Router http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=5267
    It costs more than $150 but I can guarantee you that this Router is well worth the money.:thumb:

    Since 2 years back i'm only interested in DrayTek products since they are more reliable in comparsion to what I've used before, such as D-link, Belkin, Linksys products etc...
     
  5. NewtonsApple98

    NewtonsApple98 Registered Member

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    Thanks guys, that's fantastic advice, all I need. Saved me another few hours of searching the net. Much appreciated!
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I've been using the Netgear WNR3500L-100NAS Gigabit Wireless-N router since March so far, am very happy with it. My home is wired for fast (100/1000Mb) Ethernet so I wanted a router that supported 1Gb networks, which this does with no problems. I only use the wireless side for my Toshiba notebook and it works great anywhere in the house, regardless the number of walls or floors in between. I was initially concerned about range with this device only having internal antennas, but I can even take my notebook next door, inside my neighbor's house and connect.

    Do note, however, that if your wireless network consists of both 11n and 11g devices, you should either upgrade your 11g to 11n (recommended for better security) or buy a "simultaneous dual-band" wireless router. Otherwise, with standard dual-band routers, 11n performance is toggled down. In those cases, I would not hesitate to recommend the Netgear WNDR3700-100NAS "Simultaneous" Dual Band Wireless Gigabit Router
     
  7. NewtonsApple98

    NewtonsApple98 Registered Member

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    Thanks a lot Bill, that does look like a hell of a performer (prob more than I need), but would be great for a friend; I'll pass it along. Thanks again and have a great weekend!
     
  8. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    You're usually a stickler for technical details
    //rasies eyebrow
    "Fast Ethernet" is 100 meg, typically 10/100 networks, aka 100Base-T
    Ethernet 10 meg
    If your home is wired for 100/1000...you have "Gigabit Ethernet", not "fast ethernet".
     
  9. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Ha! You got me that time! Although, back at you, I don't think 10Mbit/s is considered one of the "fast" Ethernet speeds (see here).

    But you are right, I try to be technically correct and I failed this time. In my defense, when I wired my home with Cat-5e, there was no GBit LANs - yet, but I knew it was coming. I specifically used 5e (CAT-6 was not available yet) because it would and does support 1Gbit/s speeds.

    Good catch! Thanks. I need to be challenged every so often to keep me on my toes. ;) I don't like to be wrong, but worse than that, I don't want to provide wrong information.
     
  10. NewtonsApple98

    NewtonsApple98 Registered Member

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    You guys crack me up, lol! I've definitely come to the right place for help! Thanks again guys, been having problems with some hacking attempts recently so taking a good hard second look at my security configs. Take care. :thumb:
     
  11. Zeena

    Zeena Registered Member

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    Hi :)

    I'm not exactly router expert :oops:

    But I'm also not one of those people that believes I've got to stick with the router my ISP gives me.
    Only getting a new one when ISP sends one out with a new contract.

    Is it a...

    a) Modem/Router You're Looking For?
    OR
    b) Just a Router? o_O

    a) Modem Router: http://www.netgear.com/products/home/wirelessrouters/high-performance/DGND3300.aspx
    OR
    b) Router: http://www.netgear.com/products/home/wirelessrouters/high-performance/WNDR3300.aspx
    OR
    c) Gigabit Router: http://www.netgear.com/products/home/wirelessrouters/high-performance/WNDR3700.aspx

    I'm using ( a )
    Dual Band
    Wireless.. I'm Running - G 2.4 GHz
    1 x Desktop
    1 x Sons PS3
    1 x Sons XBox
    1 x Sons iPod Touch
    Wireless.. I'm Running - N 5 GHz
    1 x Laptop
    1 x Sony Bravia TV


    Note!

    First Read This: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/2865...hiding-your-wireless-ssid-really-more-secure/
    However!
    Although N 5 GHz doesn't have the range or ability to go through as many walls as G or N 2.4 GHz...
    It does have one big bonus :D
    And That's... Not many people can see it :ninja:
    Coz! - Like Bill Was Saying...
    1) It uses different channels.
    2) You need a Wi-Fi Adapter that is Dual Band ( a/b/g/n ) to even be able to detect it.
    Meaning! - At the moment... Not many people are able to pick up on a N 5 GHz wireless SSID ;)

    Zeena
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2010
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Actually, the vast majority of ISPs don't provide routers. If they provide anything (many don't) it is typically just the basic "gateway device" - a cable or DSL "modem". And even then, in most cases, you can buy your own gateway device instead of paying a monthly rental charge.
     
  13. Zeena

    Zeena Registered Member

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    Hi Bill :)


    Never thought about how things work in different parts of the world :oops:

    I'm in the UK
    Here an ISP almost always provides either a Modem or these days... Modem/Router

    They don't charge for the Modem/Routers.
    You usually get one when you start with an ISP - & - Sometimes when you agree to a new contract.

    I've had 3 Free Modem/Routers off AOL since 2006.
    1 x Netgear
    1 x Thomson
    1 x D-Link
    But I still prefer to use my own :D


    Zeena
     
  14. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Well, here in Nebraska, with Cox cable, they will provide a modem, but it is not free. When mine died, I decided to buy my own. When I first started with broadband, routers were frowned upon - they would rather you "lease" another IP address. But that soon went to the wayside. They still don't provide routers.
     
  15. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    10 meg is just "ethernet"..., however, with fast ethernet, it's generally called 10/100 because of "autonegotiation"....backwards compatibility....a fast ethernet switch will allow an old 10 meg device to connect.

    Similar to most gigabit network devices being able to drop to 100 meg or even 10 meg.
     
  16. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    Same with me, in recent years more and more ISPs have been giving customers combo modem/routers, often galled gateway devices. Especially DSL providers. Usually with DSL providers, because the device will do the PPPoE authentication. A good benefit from this is home users will now have their PC protected by the NAT hardware firewall protection of the router component of the device. Cable providers here in the US are still more often using pure modems..which do not protect the computer behind it with any firewall.

    Now granted the router functionality, performance, and flexibility of the ISP supplied gateways usually leave something to be desired. And with my clients (usually business networks) I like much more functionality out of the router, so in 99% of my setups, I use my own choice of router/firewall instead. So I reconfigure the ISP supplied device to be run in pure bridged mode, or...as with the limited options of some of the new fiber products...as with my case and the crummy 2Wire unit they gave me, there's a "DMZ Plus Mode" which passes the public IP to your own router (in my case 1U Supermicro Atom dual core D510 server with dual Intel gigabit NICs and 2 gigs of RAM that I run various linux router/UTM distros on..currently Astaro).
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    The gateway device is the "modem". It may be integrated in the same box with a router, but the modem is still the gateway device and, electronically, it is a discrete network device. And if splitting hairs, even routers are integrated devices as a router, whose job is to connect/isolate two networks, technically has only one input and one output. But most routers include a 4 or 8-port Ethernet "switch" in the same box.

    And more and more you hear about "wireless routers" when in reality, there is no such thing. There is just a WAP (wireless access point), another discrete network device, integrated into the same box.

    And there are even "wireless gateways" which actually are (1) WAP, (2) router, (3) modem, (4) Ethernet switch all located in the same box. Some may even have a print server too. These are great for saving money as you typically have just one PCB in one box powered by one power supply. But like all integrated devices, if one component fails you have to replace the whole shebang.

    Giving? You may not see the purchase or rental fees on your bill, but you surely do not get it for free.
     
  18. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    Partially correct...but name "modem" isn't accurate once they started to make them combo devices. The nickname "modem" just stuck as far as the home user market is concerned. A "modem" is just a bridge..not a gateway. A modem would not run DHCP and pass a private class C IP address to an internet device in answering ACKs....nor would it run NAT. Those are the job of a router.
    It's (the modem) is bridging phone to ethernet (dsl) or coax to ethernet (cable)
    With networking, a "router" usually takes the job of a gateway.
    The job of a router is to connect one network...with another network. There are usually two ethernet ports to a router, the WAN/Red side, and the LAN/Green side. Since it sits between two networks....since its purpose it to connect to networks.
    Gateways loosely mean the same as above, but are more generally used to specify a device which connects the internal network to the internet.

    Such as say you have a business with 5 wide area networks, each of the 5 branch offices has a router that connects to the central office, but only the central router at the main office (6th location) goes out to the internet. So we have a total of 6 routers, but only 1 of the routers is the gateway.
    Either in such cases as wide area networks, or...when used for homes and smaller networks, to connect the home network to "the internet".

    Years ago when someone had an issue with their home network regarding broadband, and troubleshooting their router was required, or just the setup of it, the "modem" rarely got questioned, as it was assumed to be a pure bridged dumb modem. But now, once I hear it's DSL or fiber, my first question before anything else is "what is the make/model of what you "think" is the modem?" The answer to that question is critical in properly setting up your own router.

    And yes you do pay for everything..even the physical line coming into your house. But I don't recall saying "free"..as give doesn't imply free, I give you money and I expect a product or service to be given to me. Well..most people pay for everything. :) I have probably 4 spare Moto Surfoboards downstairs, and a 1/2 dozen various Siemens/Motorola/Netopia DSL bridges kicking around...can never have too many spares. Although it's time to start building up fiber units now, since I just got U-Verse a few weeks ago). Cable modems, you can get brand new still shrink wrapped in the box Surfboards for 55 bucks on eBay, takes just a few minutes to call your ISP and have it provisioned.
     
  19. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    You are right but now we are really splitting hairs and mixing home and corporate level networking. A home network consisting of one computer doesn't need a router, but it still needs a gateway device and that is "typically" the modem. The only real reason home users need a router (besides the obvious security advantages) is to connect multiple computers to the gateway device.
     
  20. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    I'll stick on my rule of thumb (best practice) on that one, even for single PC home users, I want a hardware firewall in front of it...NAT, and that's provided by a router, a modem alone cannot do that. Luckily many DSL ISPs combine a modem and router into their little gateways these days, if if it's a wee little crippled one that just serves up a single LAN IP.

    I won't support clients that plug their PC directly into a broadband modem that assigns their computer a public IP address..asking for too much trouble.

    But technically, The only real reason home users need a router (besides the obvious security advantages) is to connect multiple computers to the gateway device." should be "...need a router is to connect multiple computers to the modem, since the router is the gateway". The modem is not the gateway..it's not routing one IP to another. A modem cannot route, a router is needed for that, and a gateway is really a router, not a modem. The little mini combo modem/routers (aka gateways) are incorrectly called just modems.
     
  21. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I could not agree more with that.
     
  22. NewtonsApple98

    NewtonsApple98 Registered Member

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    Okay, now you guys really have me rolling -- thanks for such an informative discussion. Yeah, looking for a NAT router to attach to my cable modem box with an emphasis on security (some routers like the Cisco Valet which my girlfriend has) doesn't allow any control over how it handles ping requests. Now dropping them may be 'out of protocol' but I'm looking for stealth, with the added feature that it sends a lethal (I'll settle for near-lethal) dose of electricity into the keyboard of the ~ Snipped as per TOS ~ that hacked me a few months ago (which led me to your site, and many, many pages of reading up on internet security) should he try it again -- I knew almost nothing back then. What's scary is that I bet over 75% of people with home PCs think that plugging it in, logging in as admin and installing Norton will keep them safe! Shouldn't there be some sort of public service msg about all the stuff that goes on? Lol, thanks again guys, have a good one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2010
  23. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    I cannot find DIR-615 rev. D3 in the DD-WRT's router database, only C1, C2, D1, D2 and E3/E4 (see pic), although I do see D3 mentioned on their page of supported routers. Which bin-file did you use to update the firmware on your router and where can I find it?
     

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  24. burebista

    burebista Registered Member

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    From here (latest one is from Sunday).
    You need the one with factory in name if you're going to flash first time from factory firmware to ddwrt and after that the one with webflash for updating ddwrt to newest ddwrt.
    Below is mine after updating to latest ddwrt from previous ddwrt.
     

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  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yeah, well that would be nice but most of these guys are pretty darn good at hiding their whereabouts. And if such technologies existed, X wives would be zapping X husbands, fired employees would be zapping former employers, and kids would be zapping teachers. ;)

    ***

    Not to keep harping on this, or maybe it is, but to YOSc, I want to restate that the modem "is" this Internet gateway device. It matters not if it is integrated into a "combo" device because "electronically" it is still a discrete component that simply shares one chassis, one case, and one power supply with other discrete devices. This is the same with a home theater or stereo receiver, for example, which is not one device (electronically), but as a minimum, a pre-amplifier, amplifier and tuner sharing one chassis, one case and one power supply.

    Yes a router can be a "gateway" device between networks, but for home users, the router is NOT the Internet gateway device. Home users cannot access the Internet without a modem. But they can, and millions do every day, without a router.
     
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