Action Pack value?

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Stro, Jul 7, 2004.

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  1. Stro

    Stro Registered Member

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    The DiamondCS $99 Action Pack is advertised as a $190 value....a savings of nearly 50%. The Action Pack consists of TDS-3, WormGuard 3 and Port Explorer, plus FREE upgrades to TDS-4 and WG4. Individually, the three software items sell for $49 + 30 = 30 = $109 for a single use license.

    Clicking on the ad for the Action Pack shows the itemization of the $190 value: $50 + 30 + 30 for the three items above, plus $50 for the TDS-4 upgrade and $30 for the WG4 upgrade.

    But wait. Just tonight in this forum I read a post from Wayne, DCS moderator, that TDS-4 will be free to registered users of TDS-3, and Pilli, DCS moderator, said that WG4 will be free to registered users of WG3.

    So if Wayne and Pilli are correct, then the $99 Action Pack is really only a $109 value...a savings of 9%. If Wayne and Pilli are incorrect, then DiamondCS plans on selling its new products at full retail to its existing customer base, a strategy sure to result in disgruntled customers.

    Regards,
    Stro
     
  2. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    > a strategy sure to result in disgruntled customers.

    We've been offering the Action Pack for quite a while now but yours is the first complaint we've ever had about it so I don't think we'll have any disgruntled customers - everyone else has expressed that they were pleasantly surprised to be offered free upgrades - we've actually got TDS-2 customers who's only purchase was in the mid-to-late 90s who subsequently received a free license to TDS-3, and will soon receive a free license to TDS-4 - we haven't had any complaints from any of those people either. Regardless of which way you look at it, 1) you'll be getting _free_ upgrades to the next brand-new versions of our software - something very few software vendors ever do and certainly something we didn't have to do but we put our customers come first, and 2) the Action Pack saves you money - you seem to view it as a saving of only 9% which I disagree with, but even that would be a notable saving. If you'd rather purchase the programs individually, you can do that also, it's entirely up to you.

    Are you suggesting that in future we shouldn't offer free upgrades or discounts on our software to avoid such confusion, even if it means you as the customer would have to pay more? I think I'm just as confused as you now.

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  3. Kegel

    Kegel Registered Member

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    The support you guys offer is amazing. I can't think of another company that comes close. This software is both useful and educational. Well worth the money....the free upgrades are just the icing on the cake.
     
  4. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    The value of getting something for free does not make it less valuable, that's the difference in calculation.
    Don't worry Stro, Wayne knows exactly what DiamondCS company is doing and thinking and is the only person who can really speak on behalf of DiamondCS.


    Yeah Kegel, i learned a lot myself since walking with DiamondCS, even some scripting! Security on your system can be so much fun!
    See the lightblue link in my sig for part of the story.
     
  5. Stro

    Stro Registered Member

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    Wayne,
    My point, and only point, is that the DCS claim of a "$190 value...a savings of 50%" is misleading. If the entire population of registered TDS-3 users will receive free upgrades to TDS-4, and the entire popluation of registered WG3 users will receive free upgrades to WG4, then the Action Pack promotion does not give me an $80 savings over any other registered -3 version user. What the $99 Action Pack does is save me $10 (about 9%) from the price of purchasing TDS-3, WormGuard 3 & Port Explorer individually. I'll get the free upgrades to the -4 version regardless of whether I purchase TDS-3 and WG3 as part of the Action Pack or individually.

    I realize DCS is unique in offering free software upgrades to its customers, and I applaud that, appreciate that, and plan to utilize that. And please reread my reference to disgruntled customers....I never thought you'd have them. On the contrary, all that I've read in this forum suggests DCS is very customer focused.

    So I hope I've clarified my statement.

    Regards,
    Stro
     
  6. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    And after registrating look in the members area for your personal discounts for additional software!
     
  7. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    Thanks Jooske, I nearly forgot. :)

    Stro mate as Jooske just mentioned, when you purchase one of our programs you're entitled to access to our Members Area, where you can purchase programs at an even-further discounted rate. Again this isn't something we had to do, it's just something we decided to do because we value our customers and we know our customers appreciate discounts, and the more products purchased the higher the discount you're entitled to. Now compare that with our competitors. :)

    Best regards,
    Wayne
     
  8. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    The discounts don't rise to the level you get paid for using the programs though, at least not in money, but registered users except for discounts in purchasing have lots of other extra's, including free software available for licensed users only!
     
  9. TheQuest

    TheQuest Registered Member

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    Hi, Wayne - DiamondCS

    What Competitors. :D

    Take Care,
    TheQuest :cool:
     
  10. Jason_DiamondCS

    Jason_DiamondCS Former DCS Moderator

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    We don't advertise TDS-3 as a $90-100 program (which in reality it is when you include the free upgrade to TDS-4). Just because we don't advertise this fact with the individual products however, doesn't mean it isn't really worth that much.

    So if we said with TDS-3 single and WG-3 single sales that you are saving $50 and $30 respectively, why can we not calculate these savings values into the action pack? :)
     
  11. Sisko

    Sisko Registered Member

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  12. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Sisko, overthere in the other trhead as well as here above we've explained the value of something you get for free doesn't make it less valuable, no matter in which conditions you get it.
    The action pack saves some 10 or 11 dollars immediately from buying the three products separately and is still cheaper then getting them separate even with the new introduced members discount.
    Normally you wouldn't have the upgrades for free nowhere, so with getting them for free does not minimize their value.
    And if you would not buy the stuff in the first place you don't get those discounts nor free upgrades either.
    With the raised prices everywhere and what we might expect from the new software nobody knows at this moment what the catalogue price will be, not lower then the current prices, but maybe double for all the added new technologies, i just don't know, so don't pin me on such an option.
    In fact i hope it is so everybody is even more happy. :)
    As registered users we're generally more then happy with reasonable prices, as we see them as our investment and we do know the money goes into hiring top notch developers and trojan specialists and in new software for us, of which so much even for free! Oh yeah and for keeping our systems comfortable secure!
    Imagine for the price of one saterday night movie or dinner (ok half the price then) we now have a life time fun and security. Think it's great, all my internet friends on my computer and all other valuable data and applications safe. Great!
     
  13. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Administrator

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    The DCS folks have weighed in, let me give another customer perspective.

    Full disclosure - I've installed TDS-3, PG, and CS on all 5 of my familys PC's, with WG and PE on my personal PC. That's 1 Action Pack, a 5 license kit of PG, 4 TDS-3 licenses (purchased 3 then 1 additional license), and an unlimited home license for CS. Yes - consider me a satisfied DCS customer.

    For me the Action Pack was (and remains) an excellent buy. I bought it on the basis of what was available at the purchase time only. The free upgrade to TDS-4 and WG4 did impact the timing of my purchase (no need to wait since a free upgrade was guaranteed), but not the decision of whether or not to purchase.

    Is the savings quoted accurate? Depends on a number of factors and interpretations. Current owners of TDS-3 and WG3 get free upgrades, but in real life all future circumstances cannot be guaranteed. There's obviously no guarantee that economic needs couldn't force a reconsideration of this policy for future buyers - even future TDS-3 buyers. We've all seen freeware morph into payware as program sophistication and support complexity increases. Given the gestation period of TDS4, the development work behind it, and current user support demands due to increasing malware, I thought that it was prudent to obtain my guarantee of a free upgrade to TDS4 and WG4 based on the current price schedule. Given the vaguaries of what "could be", I'd say the $190 value quoted as reasonable as $109. The only number that really matters to me is whether I think my $99 is well spent, which I obviously do.

    Would I pay for TDS4 and WG4 if they appeared today and I didn't have access to a free upgrade? For me that's an unequivocal yes, and I'd do it for all 5 of my installations. These products provide value to me that I use and will pay for. The free upgrade offer is a two way street - DCS obtains cash flow today, the customer obtains a product today and and an improved version tomorrow.

    Blue
     
  14. Sisko

    Sisko Registered Member

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    I just posted the link to remind you that it was not the first time

    Concerning free upgrade it is not a guarantee. DiamondCS may release a TDS4 and a TDS4 Pro product. The TDS4 Pro would have added capabilities versus TDS4.
    There was debate on this forum regarding this and if I have not missed something, we still don’t know how many TDS4 versions and witch functionalities we will get for free when upgrading from TDS4.

    I am not saying that DiamondCS is a bad "guy". I am just pointing out that some one who buy the action pack and have not read the forum may feel betrayed when the TDS4 will be released has a free upgrade for all TDS3 user.

    Why not promoting TDS3 like :
    $$$SAVE$$$
    Buy TDS3 for $49 Today and get TDS4 Upgrade for free (a $50 Value)
    Total Value $100 (TDS3 $50, TDS4 $50) for only $49.....

    Nothing wrong here because you save...1$

    You may also have said
    $$$SAVE$$$
    Buy TDS3 for $49 Today and get TDS4 Upgrade for free (a $80 Value)
    Total Value $160 (TDS3 $80, TDS4 $80) for only $49.....

    Nothing wrong here because you save...1$ also
    Well TDS3 is priced at $50 but it if DiamondCS estimates its value at 80$ there is nothing wrong

    You may also add this now :
    $$$SAVE$$$
    Buy TDS3 for $49 Today and get TDS4 Upgrade for free (a $80 Value)
    Total Value $130 (TDS3 $50, TDS4 $80) for only $49.....


    You actualy save 31$ buying it today instead of waiting for TDS4


    All of these example are "Commercials" and are correct but not "true" except may be the last one.



    I am a happy user of TDS3, PE, and PG but sometime DiamondCS have "commercials" arguments that doesnt reflect their honesty and devotion to have the best product (and not to make the most profits).

    They are trying to make the best products to fights againts trojans.

    Sisko

    PS: I don't want to start a flame thread. This is my opinion and it was the same one year ago when I decided not to buy the Action Pack. I bought TDS3 and PE at that time. I later bought PG.
     
  15. Sisko

    Sisko Registered Member

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    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=40154
    This just confirm what I wanted to say about the "true" behind saying that the upgrade to TDS 4 will be free.
     
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