2015: The PC market has had its worst year ever

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Rasheed187, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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  2. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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  3. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    High-end PCs are always expensive. But unless you're a hard-core gamer or stock analyst or whatever, you probably don't need a high-end PC.
     
  4. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Is Moore's Law keeping up in the real world on desktop PCs these days ?

    Let's say, comparing 2010-2016 ?

    My impression is that it's fairly static, not much progress. Partly due to lack of technical progress on CPUs (of course there are quad cores, 8-cores, multi-threading, but only up to a point that is useful due to limited utility of those features in the real world), focus on mobile devices, other factors ?

    Unless software is written in a particular way many new features on CPUs are not used.

    Less progress than in the 1990s and 2000s ?
     
  5. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    mirimir is spot on - high end PCs are always expensive. If you want a high-end PC, you should build it yourself. With careful shopping, you can beat the retailer's prices.

    But it is different in the lower end systems so I don't think it fair to say they (as a whole) are ripping people off. I mean if you look at Best Buy, here's a brand new, brand name PC with a 2.41GHz processor, 4GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, DVD R/W, wireless-N and Ethernet networking, keyboard and mouse, and Windows 10 (which alone costs $104 if you were to buy it on your own), all for $240. That's darn cheap! Free shipping too!

    For just $250, you can get a similarly equipped notebook which not only includes Windows, but a monitor too.
     
  6. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Yes and the question is:

    Is there any good reason for them to be this expensive? I think they would sell more desktops if they offered more bang for the buck. For 1000 bucks you should be able to get the specs from the Lenovo Y700 Desktop, but with 2 SSD's with higher capacity. I think that's a fair price. But the HP Envy desktop is ridiculously expensive, I wonder how many people are willing to pay that much, I believe not that many.

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-...-red/4494002.p?id=1219754437921&skuId=4494002
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BOCCUQY?psc=1

    Are you kidding me, I wouldn't even want those low end PC's for free.
     
  7. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    If you have a choice, I agree. But many are on such a tight budget, they have no choice. And sadly, there are many where even $240 is beyond their reach. They are too worried about being able to feed their kids their next meal. :(

    If it comes between one of those low-end PCs and a 10 year old XP system, I say go for the new PC with it's 1 year warranty that's running the much more secure Windows 10.
     
  8. CrusherW9

    CrusherW9 Registered Member

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    They're expensive to make. I remember hearing how making just the die for a GTX Titan X costs Nvidia (iirc) over $300. Just the die. That doesn't include the pcb, memory, cooler, and other components. The bottom line is, the prices are that way for a reason. HP and Dell know how many units they'll sell at what price. If people weren't buying them, they wouldn't be as much as they are.
     
  9. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    I was completely caught off by surprise that Apple is now in the top 5, until they mentioned including laptops...
     
  10. Rasheed187

    Rasheed187 Registered Member

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    Yes of course the component makers are part of the problem, same goes for retailers, but even direct to sale companies like Dell are way too expensive. For fun, I checked how much it would cost if you bought individual components from some on-line retailer, but surely the PC makers should be able to get discounts from their suppliers? I came up with this:

    CPU: 230 euro (Intel Core i5 4590 3500 MHz)
    RAM: 90 euro (Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB RAM DDR3 1600 MHz)
    GPU: 230 euro (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB GDDR5)
    SSD 1: 90 euro (Samsung 250GB)
    SSD 2: 175 euro (Samsung 500GB)
    Motherboard: 140 euro (Asus Z170-K)
    Power supply: 100 euro (Corsair Builder CX600 600 watt)
    Soundcard: 50 euro (Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE)
    DVD Burner: 95 euro
    Keyboard: 30 euro
    Mouse: 25 euro
    Casing: 50 euro
    NIC + WIFI + Bluetooth: 50 euro
    OS: 130 euro (Microsoft Windows 10 32/64bit)

    Total = 1485 euro
     
  11. emmjay

    emmjay Registered Member

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    I would expect 2016 will be a difficult year to predict PC sales. When large corporations migrate to W10 (those surveyed say after 2017) sales figures should be a lot better. I have read that PC prices will be going up this year for the avg consumer.

    @Rasheed187 I took your 'build' and costed it in USD (US web stores, not B+M). The cost for me where I live would be significantly higher due to exchange rates and custom duty. If you are a gamer it can be a lot cheaper...

    CPU: 160 USD (Intel Core i5 4590 3500 MHz)
    RAM: 37 USD (Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB RAM DDR3 1600 MHz)
    GPU: 210 USD (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 2GB GDDR5)
    SSD 1: 80 USD (Samsung 250GB)
    SSD 2: 150 USD (Samsung 500GB)
    Motherboard: 300 USD (Asus Z170-K)
    Power supply: 155 USD (Corsair Builder CX600 600 watt)
    Soundcard: 25 USD (Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE)
    DVD Burner: 50 USD
    Keyboard: 13 USD
    Mouse: 10 USD
    Casing: 70 USD
    NIC + WIFI + Bluetooth: 30 USD
    OS: 100 USD (Microsoft Windows 10 32/64bit)

    Total = 1390 USD
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  12. wildman

    wildman Registered Member

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    This coming Tuesday I will be receiving a refurbished Dell Desktop. The price is $125.00. All I know right now is that it has Windows7 installed and has 4GB memory. I can not see why anyone would pay for a new computer.

    Always,
    Wildman
     
  13. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    @emmjay - some of those prices seem a bit off. For example, the Corsair CX600 PSU can be found for just $65. And that motherboard for just $138. The CPU, on the other hand, was closer to $200 at Amazon and Newegg.

    DVD burners can easily be found for $20.

    And just about every motherboard sold comes with integrated sound and NIC and many now come with wifi too.
     
  14. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I think the very existence of Win 8 and Win 10 has depressed the desktop and pc market for several years now. It will only get worse in the future...
     
  15. emmjay

    emmjay Registered Member

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    I agree with the MB w/integrated sound and NIC (+ wifi), but he did not have that on this build, so I priced them separately. I did find that MB for 140 USD too at Micro Centre (should have used that one). I averaged out the cost of some of the parts because I found them on sale at some sites and not at others. There were a lot of DVD burners so I just took a good quality one. Most stores sell the mouse with the KB too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  16. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    Your build just shows lack of experience.
    Swap the second SSD for an HDD, The €140 mobo for a €100 one (good enough), the €100 PSU for a €70 one (good enough), drop the sound card (the mobo sound is good enough) and the DVD burner (USB is all you need), forget the NIC + WIFI + Bluetooth and use the good ole ethernet cable, find a better deal for the OS...
    You just saved yourself close to €400 and the performance is exactly the same; spend €200 of those on a GTX 970 and you'll have a much better machine for around €1300.
     
  17. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Well being one the biggest skeptics even when Win 7 first came out (I stayed with XP SP2) and having completely skipped 7 upon Windows 8 release (it came with the rig anyway) I've settled matters with myself that Windows 8-8.1 is pretty darn good and well supported from customizations to security to imaging etc. and although I would loved to have experienced Win 7, there's been plenty of perfectly compatible Win 7 customizations for my Windows 8 that I don't even bat an eye at the Tiles anymore (even though the store and those are there).
     
  18. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    I agree that they cleaned up 8.1 pretty good and made it nice and workable. But I do think the public perception of 8 wasn't good, and I don't think 10 will make it either. I believe that both have depressed sales in the industry. But then again, I could be wrong... :)
     
  19. CrusherW9

    CrusherW9 Registered Member

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    I made a similar build on HP. It does not have a secondary ssd but instead a 1Tb HDD. $1091 USD.
     
  20. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I couldn't agree more and am somewhat dismayed in how Bill Gateless Microsoft is turned into what it appears might be happening. It's like they were exactly and almost one step away from the ultimate desktop experience(s) but then took a totally different course for better or worse.

    You pick the ending.
     
  21. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    No doubt Windows 8 hurt PC sales because hardly anyone liked being strong-arm forced to the "metro" UI even though technically, the OS itself was a better (faster and more secure) OS. But what really has hurt PC sales the most is the big migration from PCs to smart phones. And it was Microsoft's misguided attempt to make the Windows 8 PC desktop look and feel like the Microsoft phone (supposedly so users would feel comfortable going back and forth between them - and buy Microsoft phones instead of Apple and Android phones). I note too game consoles are full-filling the needs of many gamers too.

    The sad part is, Microsoft developers really do make some outstanding software but it seems the marketing people are the ones making the decisions and clearly they are not asking their customers what they want. :(

    I think W10 will help slow down the decline of the PC as more and more users buy new computers to replace their old hardware. But the smart phone is here to stay. So with smartphones and tablets doing what most people want and need their PCs to do, the demand for a big, heavy, unmovable PCs is just not sustainable - except in the corporate world, enthusiasts, and Luddites like me.

    For me, they will have to pry my full sized keyboard, mouse, two large monitors and my surround sound speaker system from my dead hands before I give up using a PC.
     
  22. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    Same here... and I do not think we're alone. ;)
     
  23. hjlbx

    hjlbx Guest

    Bad sales for the PC market last year might mean even better deals for buyers this year.

    Last year I was able to purchase an i7 4720HQ w\256 GB SSD laptop for $750 instead of the usual $1200.

    The profit margins for higher-end systems is massive - and gaming systems are essentially a rip-off - so I don't feel any type of sympathy for the OEMs.
     
  24. Keatah

    Keatah Registered Member

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    Who wants a hot and heavy PC laden with spyware and constant upgrading and subscriptions? It isn't the cost that's causing this. It's all the crap a PC user has to go through. Smartphones and tablets eliminate a lot of those issues.

    They can spin it whatever way they want. But it is what it is.
     
  25. emmjay

    emmjay Registered Member

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    Enterprises and Governments can not use smartphones to run their applications. The future of services in the cloud may eventually change that for this group. The smartphone has taken over a lot of the communications aspects associated with doing business.

    PC sales spike when a new OS is announced (exceptions noted) as the OS has always had an EOL date. With W10 that is going to change, considering MS has announced that it will be their last OS. Driving PC sales may end up being more feature driven going forward, however how the market is going to respond to that is the big unknown. OEMs may offer trade in programs - who knows.
     
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