2 x Vista OS -> 2nd OS does not boot

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by lemon, Jan 19, 2009.

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  1. lemon

    lemon Registered Member

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    Hi!

    I habe DD 10 build 2181 (this is an unofficial version which should support Vista-installations as the tech support said to me).
    On an empty hard disk I have done the following

    1. made 3 partitions (100 MB, 50 GB, 100 GB) with NTFS
    2. hide all partitions except the 50 GB one and set it active
    3. boot with Vista-DVD and installed Vista
    4. Rebootet after installation some times and worked fine

    5. boot with DD-CD, hide the 50 GB-partition and set the 100 GB the active one
    6. boot with Vista-DVD and installed Vista on the 100 GB partition
    7. During installation Vista booted a couple of times and worked well, but after the installation was complete I wasn't able to boot to the Desktop, it reboots every time a little before the Desktop should appear.

    I've tried to hide the 100 GB partition and set the 50 GB as active one again, and the first Vista OS booted fine.
    At this time I have not installed the OS Selector as I thought it won't help me with this problem.

    I've done these installations 3 times this weekend, also with different Vista versions, and it was always the same problem. Every time the second installation didn't work at the end. I also tried change the partition size, but without success.

    Once I tried to make a "normal" install without hiding any partitions and without DD, and both installations worked fine and booted till the Desktop.

    What could be the problem with using the DD solutiono_O

    Greetings from Italy

    Undee
     
  2. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I agree that not installing OSS at this point is a good idea. It's best to get the system booting properly first.

    When you install Vista, are you installing to partitions already formatted by DD or do you let Vista reformat the partition? If you didn't have Vista reformat the partition, reinstall and do it that way (you can access the options from the Advanced button on the screen where you select the partition). Sometimes Windows has a problem with DD NTFS formatted partitions.
     
  3. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    The reason for this is that DD formats an NTFS partition to be bootable with XP - the partition boot record tries to start ntldr. To boot Vista, the partition needs to be formatted with a Vista tool so that it starts bootmgr instead of ntldr.

    Like MudCrab said, you can let the Vista install disk format the partition as you're installing. Or, if you've already installed Vista and don't want to repeat the installation, boot to the Vista DVD and go to the repair section and start a command prompt. Enter the following command to change the partition boot record from XP-style to Vista style:
    Code:
    bootsect /nt60 C:
    but substitute the drive letter of the Vista partition for C: in the above command. Use the dir command to figure out which drive letter corresponds to the Vista partition in the recovery mode (it may differ from the drive letter that Vista will use when running).
     
  4. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Mark,

    I'm not sure if that is the problem. As far as I know, both XP and Vista update the MBR of the drive and the boot sector of the partition as part of the installation process. This seems to be the case because any boot manager will need to be restored and Windows will boot correctly (XP will start loading XP, Vista will start loading Vista) regardless of the fact that DD formatted the partition.

    I think the problem is in the way DD does the NTFS format. In some cases, Windows just does not like it. Maybe it's not 100% compatible?

    My problem happens on the first reboot into the XP install. The computer errors. The easy fix is to let XP format the partition. XP had no problem using the DD formatted partition or installing the files to it, but it does have a problem loading Windows and the problem happens after Windows begins loading.

    I've just gotten into the habbit of letting Windows reformat the prepared partition to avoid the potential problem.
     
  5. XIII

    XIII Registered Member

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    I've had a similar problem with Vista.

    NTFS60 (Vista) vs NTFS52 (XP) problem perhaps?
     
  6. lemon

    lemon Registered Member

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    Now I've done the whole installation again with having Vista formatting the partition, but it ended up as before.
    I see the Vista bar go from left to right and afterwards, before the Desktop should appear, I get a reboot. I was able to read the error I get at the reboot:

    STOP: c0000145 Application error

    I repeat that this happens always to the second installation I make, never to the first installation on the first partition.
    Well, maybe it is important to mention that my hard disk is a RAID5 of 3 disks. Disk Director will recognize it correctly in safe mode.

    Thank you again

    Lemon
     
  7. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    What's the purpose of the 100MB partition (the first one on the drive)?

    Can you start the second Vista in Safe Mode (F8 on boot-up)?

    Have you run chkdsk /r on your second Vista partition to make sure no errors exist?

    Does the same problem happen if you use only one drive in a non-RAID setup and install Vista twice?

    If you use a different RAID mode (0 or 1, for example), do you have the same problem?
     
  8. lemon

    lemon Registered Member

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    Hi MudCrab,

    I didn't have the time to test the various RAID modes, but I did the following:

    1) with all partitions hidden except the 100 GB one I booted up with the Vista-DVD and selected the reparation mode. Vista then said there were problems with the boot-sectors and if they should be solved, so I selected "yes" (*, see point 6)).
    2) I rebooted then with the same DVD and selected again to repair and to go to the command mode. I noticed that in the OS list that Vista has found there was also the other Vista-Installation though the partition was hidden. o_O
    3) I made a chkdsk /r but no error was found.
    4) I rebooted the PC but the problem was the same
    5) I booted with the DD-CD and deleted all the other partitions except the 100 GB one
    6) I booted without DVD and... the Vista bootup menu was shown, asking me which Vista-OS to start. Obviously that repair before (*, point 1)) has found the other installation and added it to the start menu.
    7) I selected the Vista-OS installed on the 100 GB partition and it started perfectly.

    At this point I don't think that RAID does matter here. I think the Disk Director doesn't hide the partitions enough so that Vista can't find them.

    How can I solve this?

    Lemon
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    You didn't answer these questions:

    What's the purpose of the 100MB partition (the first one on the drive)?

    Can you start the second Vista in Safe Mode (F8 on boot-up)?

    ---

    Have you tried clearing the drive and then installing Vista into the 100GB partition first and then doing the second installation into the 50GB partition?

    ---

    Vista can see hidden partitions. Normally, it's best to avoid using the automatic repair procedures in multi-boot systems because it often gets it wrong.

    Vista won't place booting files into a hidden partition and it won't assign any drive letters to hidden partitions. Those are the things that are important.
     
  10. lemon

    lemon Registered Member

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    Hi MudCrab,

    here are the answers to your questions:
    The german support told me give OSS his own partition where it can be installed so I created that little one.

    No, it doesn't boot there neither.

    Anyway I found the solution now. As I mentioned before it was a problem with the partitions hiding. I searched in many different internet boards and I found a discussion about hiding partitions and about the boot manager B**T-** (sorry, I don't know if I can write the full name here) where it will be possibile to hide partitions "for real". I tried that little program and... it worked perfectly, Vista booted up! Needless to say that I wanted to use OSS instead of that other programm coz OSS has a much nicer GUI and more options to select, it's also easier to configure. And in the OS's properties I found an option "force partition hiding" (it's the last option in the properties menu, as I use the german version I don't know what the options will be called in the english one).
    After selecting that option Vista worked also with OSS.

    Thank you for your help!

    Lemon
     
  11. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    I wondered if that's what it was for. I also like to have OSS installed on a non-OS partition.

    I assume you mean BootIt NG (BING). BING (and Grub4DOS, for that matter) handle things a little differently than OSS. When you did this setup in BING, did you setup unlimited Primary partitions and then just fill the MBR with what you wanted?

    I have never heard of this option being needed to allow Vista to boot properly. Perhaps it's something about your particular system. If you use this setting, make sure to keep current backup images of your partitions. By "really hiding" a partition, it can get "lost" if something goes wrong.
     
  12. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Since the Vista installer can "see" hidden NTFS partitions (identified as Type 17h) then I wonder if you can fool it by setting the Type of the hidden partition to something else; for example Type 83h (Linux) while installing the second Vista OS?
     
  13. lemon

    lemon Registered Member

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    But when I change the type of the partition all the data on it will be lost, doesn't it?

    Greetings

    Lemon
     
  14. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

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    Lemon:

    No; changing the partition Type with DD only changes the ID byte in the partition table - the data in the partition remains unchanged. If the Vista installer uses the ID byte in the partition table then this "trick" will fool it. If it actually examines the partition to find out if it is NTFS then the trick won't work.
     
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