Beware of Acronis "Leftovers" Issues

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Arvy, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Dragonheart

    Dragonheart Registered Member

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    WARNING TO ALL: I have never been able to get Acronis 2012 to work. 2010 worked fine then I upgraded 2012. When I started a backup either manually or on schedule I got a quick Blue screen and Windows shut down. Even connecting remotely to my computer the Acronis No-Help Desk were not able to get the 2012 program to work. Finally after numerous e-mails I had had enough, as I bought the program because I need backups, I downloaded a program from the Acronis site to completely clean Acronis off my computer. I planned to re-install Acronis 2010. All seemed to go well on the Acronis removal then after the reboot I was unable to get my Windows XP to reboot. I was also unable to use the Acronis 2010 disk to restore my computer files! Apparently, the 2010 disk does not have the necessary drivers to recognize a Western Digital Hard Drive. Give me a break! Western Digital is not a fly by night company. The WD Velociraptor hard drive is one of the best known super fast drives available. I spent 2 days trying to restore my computer and was only able to do so when a friend had a Acronis 2012 disk with the necessary WD Driver. In my opinion Acronis has too many bugs to be considered for a reliable backup program and I personally will be looking for an alternative and I would recommend others do also.
     
  2. moontan

    moontan Registered Member

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    a program this big (read bloatware) is bound to have problems.
    of course, smaller doesn't mean it's automatically better, but i find this is often the case.

    i highly recommend folks to switch to lighter imaging apps.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  3. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    Unfortunately, their own so-called "cleanup" utilities don't always do the job completely and any device class filter and/or "required for boot" (start=0x0) registry entry that is left behind after removal of the driver files themselves will inevitably result in a blue screen "death trap." Your best hope in the circumstances would be restoration of a complete backup made prior to ATIH 2012 installation if you have one.

    In case anyone wonders about the latest ATIH 2012 update release (v.7119) they appear to have cleaned up their act a little bit, at least insofar as leaving Win7's own backup disabled after uninstallation is concerned, but the more fundamental device class filter "leftovers" issues remain unresolved.
     
  4. MarcP

    MarcP Registered Member

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    The "Acronis Clean-up" utility is a funny creature of its own. First, it is not complete. They force you to download other tools from Microsoft because they can't do the cleanup on their own. Then, their instructions warn you to not reboot when their own tool tells you to do so.

    I have abandoned all trust in this borderline fraudulent company.
     
  5. Alycat

    Alycat Registered Member

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    I removed Acronis firstly with just Add/Remove Programs in Windows 7, then used the utility mentioned above, there is now just one of those items listed above. Thinking I will just reinstall everything.

    I also tried Image for Windows, and noted it added some of its stuff to some of those registry locations shown above - is it then as bad as Acronis?

    Is it best to use one that operates COMPLETELY from say a bootable USB? Is there one?

    Thanks.
     
  6. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    The "badness" is not inherent in simply making some device class filter additions or other changes to the system registry, except insofar as those additions and changes may sometimes alter your OS HAL's device handling capabilities. In other words, some such modifications could result in your backing up a system that is actually less capable (e.g., can handle fewer storage device types) than the original OS you thought you were getting backup protection for in the first place.

    The more prevalent issues discussed here, however, are "irreversible" changes that can result in BSOD traps if and when you change your mind and decide you want to remove them and/or install some other alternative. That's where Acronis, especially it's most recent releases and even including mere trial installations, can create some major problems.

    Acronis is certainly not unique in that respect, but in general, most others are trending away from that situation by adopting and cooperating with Windows' own imaging capabilities instead except in cases of older OS versions where that option isn't available.

    I'm not exactly sure what "Image for Windows" application you're referring to in particular, but most current backup/imaging solutions offer capabilities for creating a "rescue disc" of some kind (either *nix, WinPE, or both) that can be booted directly. In some cases, you may need to install the main application to create that "rescue" capability in the first place. But others provide separate (.ISO) downloads that can burned directly to a CD/DVD or installed on a bootable USB flash drive. In the latter case, you may need to use something like a Grub4DOS boot menu and ensure that your BIOS is set for "legacy" USB support. Or you can also use an eSATA drive with the BIOS's own F8 boot device selection, which is what I do myself.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    ACRONIS is bad because it doesn't pick up after itself. I have installed IFW (Image For Windows) more times than I care to count. In every case of a managed uninstall/removal, it has taken every entry out of the system's REGISTRY that it ever put in... that's being responsible.

    Since its only REGISTRY entries deal with the installation of its VSS work-alike (PHYLOCK), it also offers you the option of whether that is even installed during installation. If you don't install PHYLOCK, it uses the standard Windows VOLUME SHADOW SERVICE (VSS) to do its file structure snapshot action.

    I surely would not even try and compare it to ACRONIS.
     
  8. Alycat

    Alycat Registered Member

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I have been trying Image for DOS, it lets me create a bootable USB, I can boot from that and do a backup (tried that) and a restore (haven't tried that yet) and the view program that lets you look through the backup does not install any drivers.

    So I can backup and restore without touching my C: drive. :D

    Now, just waiting for my Windows DVD, then I wipe the C: clean and reinstall.

    (I had Acronis images for that, but of course no good if you are trying to get rid of Acronis :mad: )
     
  9. Paulj03

    Paulj03 Registered Member

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    Arvy

    Thank you very much for your detailed information. I used acronis some 6 months ago to upgrade my ssd to higher capacity but began to experience windows startup problems only last week.

    I suffered intermittent boot problems and eventually after cleaning up my disk, it failed to start entirely. I was finally able to get to windows using an acronis boot cd after reading your posts. I was able to edit the registry and get rid of the acronis remnants and now I get windows up and running (xp).

    I had google for fltsrv.sys because it seems to be hanging there when I was using safe mode. Interesting, some sites indicated that it was benign. Anyway, I saw this post and it was bang on. Some things were not there but more or less perfect.

    Thanks
     
  10. Gorkster

    Gorkster Registered Member

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    @Paulj03
    I'm glad you posted your story. @Arvy has tried to explain over and over again to folks who reply to his posts that ATIH works beautifully for them that, basically, it's just a matter of time for many people. What you have posted backs up that claim and will hopefully save some people from going through this ordeal.

    Signed,

    an ex Acronis customer
     
  11. MarcP

    MarcP Registered Member

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  12. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    I think some of their MVPs may actually have been trying to contact me via the Acronis forums private messaging. I keep getting emails saying that I have several unread messages there. But since the "higher powers" have completely blocked my access, I can't log in to read them. I guess they were hurt by the truth being posted. Too bad!
     
  13. Gorkster

    Gorkster Registered Member

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    Yeah, they don't run their forum software any better than their imaging software. ;) Why would they block your account but continue to have emails from the board sent to you?! And why would they block you to begin with... I've never seen any post by you indicate anything short of truth and professionalism. Had they spent more time listening to you their software would be better for it today.
     
  14. Paragon

    Paragon Registered Member

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    I have been a huge Acronis fan ever since Version 4 came out a number of years ago. I am currently on Acronis TI Home 2011 and although it's not given me any immediate problems, I have friends and colleagues that are experiencing many of the issues you have mentioned in this thread. Most of them were having the issues after trying TIH 2012.

    Ok fast forward up to two weeks ago. I decided to begin looking at other software for imaging purposes. I first did a complete removal of Acronis TIH 2011 (yep registry and all). I started with a trial versions Macrium Pro (which incidentally is the only company out of the three I looked at that included their PE Builder Product) with a trial. How are you going to know whether it works or not if you can't recover the image you just made? I must admit that Macrium is smooth but the only thing that kept me from pursung it further as it would not recognize my USB 3.0 external drives.

    I have an Asus mother board in my workstation that uses Asmedia USB 3.0 drivers which Macrium PE builder says that it copied. After I made the fist of many disks and attempted to recover, Macrium does not see my drive. I went through adding a number of drivers including the Western Digital WES driver and still could not make Macrium recognize my USB 3.0 drive. This is a deal breaker especially after putting in that many hours trying to get something to work. I've read every post here, on Macrium's Forum, and on several other forums and tried everything suggested to no avail.

    I guess the frustrating thing is that the Acronis TIH 2011 Linux rescue disk recognizes the USB 3.0 port and drives, it is much older than the version of Macrium that I'm trying. I'm looking for a paid of imaging software that will image my system accurately and restore it when or if necessay. Is there no other software out there that is equipped with the drivers that Acronis incorporated in the verision of Linux they used in TIH 2011?

    Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
     
  15. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    According to my experience with several WinPE builders, USB 3.0 32-bit drivers must be explicitly added, pointing the program to the corresponding INF files.
     
  16. Paragon

    Paragon Registered Member

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    I did that when running the WinPe disk created by the Macrium PE installer. It tells me there are two USB drivers needed and I found them, but still no access to my USB 3.0. Maybe I'm being a little synical here, but you would think that paying between $50 and $100 for a quality imaging program would at very minium have a patch with most if not all of the USB 3.0 drivers on it. Sorry if that sounds snotty.

    I am running a WD USB 3.0 drive and ahave read on several forums that owners of these drives had similar issues and questioned whether it was the drive or the USB driver that was causing the issue.
     
  17. MerleOne

    MerleOne Registered Member

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    I suggest you try R-Drive Image from www.R-TT.com

    It perfectly recognizes my Raid 0 array and the USB 3 port. It's also very reliable.
     
  18. John Doe Genius

    John Doe Genius Registered Member

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    The latest posts are a bit off topic in relation to “Beware of Acronis "Leftovers" Issues” and should be moved to a new thread.

    Then: I have a WD USB 3.0 drive (My Book Essential) with an external USB 3.0 driver card (the motherboard only supports USB 3.0).

    Macrium Reflect has no problems with finding my USB 3.0 drive.

    Be aware:
    Macrium offers you both a 64bit and a 32 bit WinPE environment.
    There are different USB 3.0 drivers for 64b and 32b

    You have not mixed the environments? I have created both a 32b and 64b WinPE with Macrium Reflect.

    Also the Paragon HDM 12 WinPE works smoothly (with 32b drivers in a 32b environment).
     
  19. Paragon

    Paragon Registered Member

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    I apologize for going OT and I appreciate the advice. I will start another thread as I'm sure the culmination of knowledge here regarding WINPe and USB 3.0 might well help a number of members.
     
  20. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    If you've registered as a Macrium user, you might have better luck in their own support forums and/or knowledge base at http://support.macrium.com/ Unlike some others, Macrium does maintain an "official" presence in its forums and will answer user questions and issues there directly.

    I've got the ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe motherboard that uses Asmedia USB 3.0 drivers like yours and I've found that USB3 recognition can be a bit tricky with some of the ASUS BIOS versions. In fact, their latest BIOS update for that board (v.1206) specifically states that it is intended to "enhance compatibility with some USB devices." So you may be dealing with a combination of factors rather than software alone.

    Generally speaking, as Robin mentioned, explicitly matched (32-bit or 64-bit depending on your WinPE build) drivers must be specified. The drivers that are located under the Win7 installation's DriverStore\FileRepository folder will match the OS itself, but NOT necessarily the WinPE build that you're creating. You may need to download the correct versions from the Asmedia or ASUS web site.

    For another Macrium user's USB3 experience, see http://support.macrium.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4210
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  21. Paragon

    Paragon Registered Member

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    Thanks very much Arvy, that is excellent information.
     
  22. Paragon

    Paragon Registered Member

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    Arvy ... Just thought I'd let you know that thanks to your most recent advice I got everything with my USB 3.0 and Macrium sorted out and didn't have to upgrade my BIOS. The latest version of the BIOS for my ASUS Maximus IV Gene/Gen3 board has caused many users a lot of trouble. I went ahead and purchased the professsional version as it will best meet my needs and Macrium sent me a discount coupon in the mail...THANKS AGAIN!
     
  23. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    Great!!! Thank you for taking the time to follow up. And glad to hear that you've managed to resolve your WinPE build issue with USB3 drivers. It can be a tricky one pending "native support" for USB3 under both 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems. Maybe for Windows 8 -- but that one's a total mess in other respects IMO.

    I don't think you'll regret your backup software decision. Macrium Reflect (Pro edition) is what I ended up with myself after trying several others. It hasn't failed me yet, despite a somewhat unusual Win7x64 installation involving an Intel 520 SSD system drive (C) with the main ProgramData and Users folders located on a completely different hard drive (D).

    Just in case anyone else may be curious, the procedure for that Win7 installation can be found at http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorial...reate-move-during-windows-7-installation.html. Just one word of caution if anyone else chooses that set-up for handling SSD "system only" usage. NEVER start Windows without the data drive in place and ensure that any restore operation keeps both drives "in sync" so that the program data (on D) matches the installed programs (on C). Macrium Reflect makes it easy to back up both drive partitions to the same composite image, thus lessening the chance of inadvertent restoration mismatches.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  24. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

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    Hello Arvy,

    Whew, I just finished reading this thread from one end to the other. Quite a lot to digest!
    I have an expired trial copy of ATI Home 2012, Update 2 (build 7119) on my Win 7 64-bit system that I now intend to uninstall.

    I have a few questions...

    1). Even though the cleanup instructions you provided in the original post were written for builds 6131-6154, do they still apply in full to v.7119?
    2). I saw one reference in this thread to Revo, and I'd like to know if you advise against letting Revo Uninstaller Pro handle the ATI uninstall, due to the automatic nature or sequence of the process?
    3). To make sure that I have my facts right, do you recommend following the ATI method of removal (Windows uninstaller followed by their cleanup utility), followed by your 3-step removal process?
    4.) I also have ATI Home 9.0 (build 3,677) installed and running smoothly on an XP box, with no real intentions of uninstalling it, unless you tell me that you believe the same incomplete uninstall issues exist with this older version as with the newer ones?

    Appreciate all of the effort and dedication that you have put into creating this thread. :thumb:
     
  25. Arvy

    Arvy Registered Member

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    1. Other than the build version suffix (changed from 61 to 71 on the name of the Acronis Disk Storage Filter service) I've seen no substantive difference in the registry entries for the latest ATIH update. In any case, the removal sequence remains unchanged.

    2. Some people have reported success with the Revo uninstaller, but others have run into problems -- serious ones in a few cases. Personally, I've stuck with my own methodology for removal and so can't offer any first-hand advice on that one.

    3. You're safe running a "normal" Windows (Remove Programs) uninstall first and should do so. The Acronis "clean up" utility is essentially their own attempt to "automate" at least some (not necessarily all) of the remaining steps for getting rid of those device class filters. Once again, the actual results with the latter seem to vary and some BSOD cases have been reported with it as well. Using the Acronis "clean up" tool is unnecessary if you follow my steps carefully after a "normal" uninstallation of the program.

    4. Older versions did leave a few "leftovers" behind, but seldom seemed to cause the BSOD issues that occur more often with ATIH 2012 removal attempts. If you're happy and having no problems with version 9.0 on your XP box, I certainly would NOT recommend looking for trouble for no reason. :)
     
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