Introducing, The New Prevx Edge.

Discussion in 'Prevx Releases' started by trjam, Nov 13, 2008.

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  1. PXResearch

    PXResearch Registered Member

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  2. Triple Helix

    Triple Helix Specialist

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    Hi Joe,

    I really do think that Prevx should be adding more of the ROGUE security software to there database it is out of control I have sent a couple to you and they never seem to get added.

    TH
     
  3. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    Can you send me the links again of whatever we're missing? I forwarded them onto the research team before but the infections may have changed :doubt:
     
  4. Retadpuss

    Retadpuss Suspended Member

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    The latest rogues are easy to find - there are websites listing the domains of malware / rogues - reguarly updated.
     
  5. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hey Joe,
    is it possible to add Sophos to the list under Threats missed by other security vendors?

    seems strange to miss out a well known anti virus company in the same country.
     
  6. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    The chart is dynamic in the AVs which it shows. We hold the data for other AV companies as well, but we only show the data from the most popular ones and I suspect there just aren't enough Sophos users using Prevx products to meet the threshold of being shown on the page :doubt: If we included the less popular products, the results would become too statistically insignificant and could end up obscuring the meaning behind the charts.
     
  7. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    PrevxHelp,

    You should also report the number of users, of each AV, that where infected...

    Just looking for the graphics like it is now doesn't say anything until we know that number...
     
  8. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    We give the raw number of infections found by each AV and don't interpret any of the data further to prevent misinterpretation of the results. The graphs are not meant to say that X av is better than Y av, rather, the purpose is to show that every AV has flaws, even if they claim that their products provide "complete security" or "total protection".
     
  9. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    I don't say you have intentions about that, but I've no doubt that the major number of users will think that it's AV is better or horse than another after looking at these graphics...

    If you add that number you will help these users and avoid that kind of comparatives...

    And everyone will be well informed... ;)
     
  10. InfinityAz

    InfinityAz Registered Member

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    I agree, include the total number of clients or what percentage of those clients had the "infection". Also, does this include false positives (since this is the only detections I've been getting since installing Prevx (paid version). It identifies many of the Nirsoft software as malware).
     
  11. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    We detect the Nirsoft software as malicious because they are used primarily by malware, but if you have a specific program from them which we're finding that you think we shouldn't be, send a log to the address I've PM'd you and I'll see if we can get the detection removed.

    Overall, FPs (and "possibly unwanted software" like ServU or the NirSoft utilities which are frequently used by malware) account for far less than 1% of the detections so feel free to add a margin of error when interpreting the data :)
     
  12. InfinityAz

    InfinityAz Registered Member

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    I'm impressed at the speed of the response. I sent you the log file and I understand that some of the nirsoft programs can be used for nefarious purposes (of course, so can javascript, active-x, sniffers, etc.).
     
  13. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    what information do you collect from client machines?
    such as windows version, antivirus program etc
    does it include the antivirus version number for example kaspersky 2009?
    if so surely you could find out how many of the missed infections from KL where from users using kav6?
    where as maybe kav2009 would of detected it?
     
  14. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    Yes, very true. We've reassessed the Nirsoft programs and are going to be reclassifying them as Good. In the end, anything in an operating system can be used maliciously and Nirsoft's aren't all THAT bad, comparatively speaking :)
     
  15. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    We do collect the exact antivirus version number but I don't have a view of those results. Regardless, however, if a user is using an antivirus product, they think they are being protected by it. A vast majority of users don't go around on a daily basis through forums looking for new versions of AV software :)
     
  16. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Rdsu, I agree. This theme has been explored in some depth in this thread. Unfortunately, Prevx appears not to be interested in clarifying these statistics to minimize the possibility of misinterpretation.

    It would be valuable, additionally, if Prevx subdivided the "missed threats" statistics for a security vendor by the product. For example, I suspect that number of threats missed is less for security suites (e.g., Kaspersky Internet Security) than for a component solution (e.g., Kaspersky Anti-Virus). Lumping all products from a single vendor together isn’t necessarily helpful to the consumer, since the consumer doesn’t have a “vendor” installed on a PC – she or he has a vendor’s product installed.
     
  17. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    This is also unfair for other AV Companies, and I don't know if they can display this...
     
  18. hawki

    hawki Registered Member

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    "The Security Vendor chart displayed above shows, in simple terms, a total count of malicious programs found yesterday by Prevx products on PCs protected by security products supplied by each of the vendors shown.

    You should expect to see a higher number against the more popular security vendors because we see more of these users and consequently a higher number of malware infections.

    More Information

    If you click on any one of the bars in the chart, you can see exactly what infections have been found on PCs protected by security products supplied by that vendor."

    http://www.prevx.com/
    ...........................
    The chart below shows a summary of malware detected by Prevx 3.0 yesterday on PCs protected by security products from Avira
    Unclassified Malware
    1388 threats missed
    Cloaked Malware
    869 threats missed
    Worm
    854 threats missed
    Malicious Software
    772 threats missed
    Fraudulent Security Program
    327 threats missed
    Adware
    461 threats missed
    System Back Door
    97 threats missed
    Malware Dropper
    85 threats missed
    Malware Downloader
    97 threats missed
    Rootkit
    50 threats missed
    Information Stealer
    32 threats missed
    Spyware
    14 threats missed
    Password Stealer
    35 threats missed
    Banking Info Stealer
    7 threats missed
    Targeted Information Stealer
    2 threats missed
    Internet Chat Worm
    4 threats missed
    Internet Chat Cloaked Malware
    2 threats missed
    Test Virus
    - 0 threats missed
    Email Cloaked Malware
    2 threats missed
    Virus
    1 threats missed
    P2P Share Worm
    - 0 threats missed
    Bot
    1 threats missed
    Email Worm
    5 threats missed "

    http://www.prevx.com/avgraph/19/Avira.html
     
  19. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    hawki,

    I already read that, but what from that fits my suggestion or my last post?
     
  20. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Rdsu, I suspect that some anti-virus companies could potentially gather and report similar “threats missed” statistics (e.g., through the free Norton Security Scan), but they choose not to. I believe that decision reflects well on their professionalism.

    Others may disagree, but I react negatively to “disparage-the-competition” marketing tactics. The sad fact is that Prevx does indeed appear to have a quality product, and they really don’t need to engage in potentially misleading marketing practices. Why they do so remains a mystery.
     
  21. PrevxHelp

    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

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    I am sorry you feel this way but the charts will remain as long as vendors continue to use terminology like "total protection" in their product names and misrepresent their own detection to mislead users into thinking that they can use their product and be completely protected from all threats. We are taking a stance on this and are not going to change the graphs until the other vendors change their marketing or change the way that their products work - users should be encouraged to use more than one security product but the major vendors prevent this from happening conceptually when they CAN engineer their products to work nicely alongside other security products (we have!).

    No protection is 100%, not us, not anyone and until we hear other vendors going around admitting that, we will have to continue to show the raw data about the threats to prove it is true.

    And regarding Prevx's own detection rates - sure it is possible that other vendors are deciding not to post the results for their own reasons, but what if they don't want the world to see the truth behind results :doubt:
     
  22. spm

    spm Registered Member

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    While you may well have a good product, this kind of attitude is not going to help your cause. You talk about 'truth', but what you talk of here is an irrelevance - how many of your competitors actually claim they provide 100% protection against threats? No, what you are engaging here is a marketing approach that will surely end up biting you in the backside. Your statistics are in fact meaningless, and can only mislead the uninformed. Just because your product detected an infection does not mean other security software installed on customers' machines missed it. Putting aside for now the truth(?) that your product is reporting back to you what other software users have installed (in which case be very careful you are complying with laws in respective countries, and honouring your users' privacy), there's no way that your product can really know whether other security products 'missed' threats, completetly undermining your claimed reasons for publishing these statistics you compile.

    I would respectfully suggest you cease this attempted manipulation, and try instead to promote your product on the basis of its own merits. You just might end up avoiding the 'unprofessional' label that has already been used in this thread (and, no doubt, elsewhere).
     
  23. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    yada-yada-yada
    "yawn"
     
  24. rdsu

    rdsu Registered Member

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    I can't believe that I really see this!!!

    You (Prevx) seems like childs!
    If the others do this I will make the same. Period!

    Do you know what is professionalism, ethic and have own identity!!!o_O

    You have a good product, with potential, but this behaviour is unaceptable from you or any other company.
     
  25. raven211

    raven211 Registered Member

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    I know that it's misleading, and that applies to me as well. I dunno why it's there in the first place... o_O :cautious:
     
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