Problems with corrupted images

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Manowar, Jan 20, 2005.

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  1. bigg1

    bigg1 Registered Member

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    yes, this is the situatuion.

    Here is what I did exactly:
    -boot from TI boot CD (CD was created on another PC with TI Corp. Workstation 8.0.921 installed. On my PC, TI is not and was never installed before)
    -made an image of C:\ [system] partition and selected to save the image file to D:\
    My C:\ has about 9.5 GB used , the resulting image[max.compression] was about 4.1 GB
    -boot to Windows, copied the image available on D:\ to an USB HDD, and then burned the same image (from D:\, not from USB HD) to a DVD[with EasyCD 6]
    -boot from TI boot CD again, and checked the 3 images - on D:\, on USB HD, and on the DVD
    - TI reported the image on D:\ is OK, the ones on USB HD and on the DVD are corrupt. I made the checks several times, booting each time from the TI boot CD

    Then after the Ilya's post, checked the 3 image files with the md5sum.exe tool - with the results mentioned in my previous post.
    I really do not see another reasonable explanation of this, except some sort of a bug in the verification.
    What does it check actually - some crc checksum or something else? If we assume an image reported to be corrupt is in fact OK, will the image integrity check failure prevent the proper restoration of the image file or not? I'm still afraid to test this :)
     
  2. archie22

    archie22 Registered Member

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    I was not able to restore a partition from such a "corrupt" image.

    Regards,
    archie22
     
  3. Ed Y

    Ed Y Registered Member

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    I've been having the same problem as bigg1 with an internal IDE HD and trying to use a TEAC USB 2.0 external HD. I don't have access to any other PC's to do any testing (rural MS) so I have the external HD in a small PC shop in the town closest to me. They were going to try it for me on one of their machines. As soon as I get it back in a day or two, I'm going to run the program to produce hash counts on an image backup on my C internal drive and the copied version on the external USB drive. I'll post results here too.
     
  4. J_Neild

    J_Neild Registered Member

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    I thought I would look "outside the box" and try a network based image write. So, I imaged from my local machine to a server on the network. Image worked fine, then I checked it in the boot environment...CORRUPT. I booted XP and checked the image....CORRUPT. So, it looks like, based on my experience, this isn't a INT vs. EXT USB related issue.

    I have created images to INT, EXT USB and now LAN and they have been corrupted, except for the "self-healing" incident where the images were not *all-of-sudden* corrupt for one round of checks. So, I don't think this is a imaging location related problem, but more a hardware or software related issue based on the fact that that I have failed on all my destinations of imaging and the other failures related to DVDs or CDs posted in the thread have also failed.

    I would, personally, still believe it is a problem with the image verification routine or the support for the various hardware I (and others) have. I can't see, based on my hardware (listed below), that an INT, EXT USB and NIC based image write could fail unless the image verify was flawed OR the support for the Promise 378 RAID controller on my ASUS board is flawed.

    So, here is the hardware I am attempting to image...

    - ASUS P4C800E-DLX MB with a Promise ATA 378 S-ATA RAID Controller
    - 2 x 160GB Maxtor IDE disks (w/ S-ATA -> IDE converters) connected to the RAID controller connectors in a RAID 1.
    - NIC is onboard Intel 1000
    - USB Controller is the Onboard USB 2.0 controller (I know this might be obvious, but I thought I would mention it)


    Now, it could very well be the MB I am using, if it is, you can test it, fix it and make me happy ;-)
     
  5. J_Neild

    J_Neild Registered Member

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    OK, new update.

    I installed TI 7.0 Build 634. I imaged on the INT drives attached to the 738 RAID controller and the image worked fine. I checked it in the boot environment (albeit the "SAFE" version of the environment) and the image checked out OK. I booted into XP and checked the image using 7.0....CORRUPT.

    I know I posted earlier that 7.0 didn't work...well, I guess I wasn't patient enough...after about 5-10 minutes, the boot environment finally did come up in SAFE MODE...weird. Nonetheless, the outcome was the same.

    I guess I am up to about $0.50 now ;-)

    Worried now...want TI to work for me...good software...bad outcome....going to bed now.
     
  6. Nezzle

    Nezzle Guest

    Did some more testing last night, what I found is that if a different HDD is attached to system (INT or EXT) after creating an image all files in the 'secure zone' appear to be CORRUPTED. To work around this prob re-activate the 'secure zone' whenever a new hdd is added.

    I have confirmed this and images that have previously been reported as CORRUPTED can be succesfully restored.

    It seems like this maybe a software piracy failsafe? or even some fault with the way MBR's are altered.

    Could somebody confirm the above as I currently only have one system to work from.
     
  7. Boskey

    Boskey Registered Member

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    I injected another situation by attempting to use my ext combo drive using both firewire and usb interfaces. I thought that moving data via a different controller might be the answer, but the files show corrupt either way while the internal drive file checks okay. (note, as the ext drive is fat32, the file size was restricted down to 4,194,304 KB). I checked the MD5 on the internal drive, and for both instances with the external drive means -- they were all identical. It appears my hardware is not at issue.

    I am trying to use trial TI 8 build 791.
    MSI K8N Neo2 (onboard usb and firewire), ATA-133 int drive, and 40GB ext usb/firewire combo drive.
     
  8. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    Hello I want to report my own bad experiance with corrupted images!!

    I work in a small company with 6 PC all with W2000, we use TI since version 60 now 80 to make IMAGES of all PCs. We use one W2000 PC as "File server", so normaly we do image over our 100Mb LAN on the internal disk of our "server pc" (max. 80GB). As extension we have external disk,a MAXTOR PS5000XT with 250GB over USB2.0. On this drive I COPY many of the images that I do with TI to get free space on the 80GB drive!

    After problems with one pc I wanted to install a image I did save one day before. I booted the pc (a compaq armada 500) with the acronis cd, get access to the server and tried to verify the image before doing it. After 1,5 hours I did get the message that the image is corrupted!!

    then I did run the verify on the server pc direct (of course faster) but with the same bad result!
    the image file hase 6 parts, one full image and 5 incremetal images. this different parts was created with different versions of TI (70 and 80) so I dont know if this has any bad affects.

    To investigate this I did copy this images on our MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0 and took it home hoping to find out what is going wrong!

    I did connect the MAXTOR 250GB USB2.0 to my home pc, again the image is shown as corrupt.
    I checked now more image files that I have on the MAXTOR 250GB AND THE MOST OF THEM SEEMS TO BE CORRUPT, now this is a lot of TROUBLE for me!! WHAT IS GOING ON HEREo_O?

    In the past I did use the MAXTOR 250GB to backup a my Acer Labtop directly with 1394 firewire(100Mbit because its a small 4 pin connector) and not with USB(because only USB1.1 is available) and all was working perfect.

    So I did start testing.

    I took a TI image created with my home pc and check the MD5
    20041127_ath3200_c.tib file size 1,279,563,776
    1. Original file on PC-Disk IDE 846535372F221134358E4E178C375ABA
    2. Copy on other partition of IDE disk 846535372F221134358E4E178C375ABA
    no problem when copying on same IDE disk
    3. Copy on MAXTOR via USB 2.0 405D8DC1A88334EFD21CCD3827B128A
    MD5 of copy is wrong only with copy!!
    4. Copy on MAXTOR via USB 2.0 846535372F221134358E4E178C375ABA
    now I did copy again BUT on other folder, this time seems to me o.k.
    Again calulating MD5 on file 4. !!! 7740570E1947598B2FF67B67556A222D
    MD5 changes every time I did calculate it on the same file on the MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0!! THATS REALLY SCARING

    Now a some test with a different file
    (300MB demo.ZIP) on MAXTOR 250GB over USB 2.0
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    MD5 is the same every time I check it so all o.k.

    Now I copy this file from MAXTOR via USB on the IDE disk
    Copy of (300MB demo ZIP) from Maxtor 250GB over USB 2.0 to IDE-Disk on PC
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    MD5 is the same every time I check it so all o.k.

    Now I copy this file from IDE disk back to MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0
    Copy of (300MB demo ZIP) from IDE-PC-Disk to Maxtor 250GB over USB 2.0
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    C4DA88E1D585DF8BBC3269AEEF52B420
    MD5 is the same every time I check it so all o.k.

    Now I did copy a SMALL TI image from IDE to MAXTOR 250GB via USB
    K:\Acer TM632LC\MeinBackup_D3.tib file size 282,465,792 to MAXTOR 250GB over USB2.0
    01F3C99F94E5CCDC7B134847AD4733FA
    01F3C99F94E5CCDC7B134847AD4733FA
    01F3C99F94E5CCDC7B134847AD4733FA
    01F3C99F94E5CCDC7B134847AD4733FA
    MD5 is the same every time I check it so all o.k.

    Now I did copy a BIG TI image from IDE to MAXTOR 250GB via USB
    K:\20041127_ath3200_c.tib file size 1,279,563,776 on Maxtor 250GB over USB2.0
    49F1F5B912E4E4C823E4113E5F37E394
    65218506CBA239597D67359C7643811E
    109CA9D210A73F11698FDBBE7B2A1D3E
    MD5 changes every time I did calculate it on the same file on the MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0!! To be clear I am checking the same file without doing anything between the checking!!

    Now I did create a BIG ZIP-file to check if this happens only with TI files!
    K:\Game-Demos\test.zip filesize 1,165,303,696 on MAXTOR 250GB over USB2.0
    00AF4DEC1E51396281CF129E046B49A9
    1F28BF8FE82657CB4DBC352CCAFCC0EB
    A9E76822FC3B66C8F7BFDB48A0B465DC
    7E3F9FB5730C5A3CEA56206ABAE6824E
    MD5 changes every time I did calculate it on the same file on the MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0!! To be clear I am checking the same file without doing anything between the checking!!

    Now I did copy this BIG ZIP-file to the IDE disk
    E:\test.zip filesize 1,165,303,696 on PC-DISK-IDE
    DCA853AA02EE40E3B3805CE09A05CB57
    DCA853AA02EE40E3B3805CE09A05CB57
    DCA853AA02EE40E3B3805CE09A05CB57
    MD5 is the same every time I check it so all o.k.

    now I did copy the same file back from IDE-disk to Maxtor via USB2.0 on different folder
    K:\Game-Demos\test.zip filesize 1,165,303,696 on MAXTOR 250GB over USB2.0-BACK
    DD14F7F16E1D6A298EBF1959E39954BB
    18EFDCC471238CAB3A97464FFDCE5856
    8CFBF6EE073D4525244E3780B96B50E0
    MD5 changes every time I did calculate it on the same file on the MAXTOR 250GB via USB2.0!! To be clear I am checking the same file without doing anything between the checking!!

    So what does this all mean??
    For the moment it seems that I and many other users are having BIG PROBLEMS using USB2.0. The different results of MD5 on the same file can mean only that we have BIG PROBLEMS READING THE DATA CORRECTLY FROM THE EXTERNAL DISK. THERE MUST BE ERRORS IN THIS READING OPERATION! Of cause we can also have errors with writing/copying the files, but if the error was only there we would have differtent MD5 results compared with the original file and not every time calculating the SAME file!
    As my test show this seems to happen ON BIG FILES, the 300MB file seems to have no problems, the 1.2GB file has allways problems!

    I did not check if this problem is the same if you copy over LAN (100Mb) or 1394 FIREWIRE, but remembering the coruption problem I did have with the CompaqArmada500 I think that this is POSSIBLE an it should be checked and verified by other members!!! I personally will do the same tests with the MAXTOR 250GB using its Firewire 1394 port as soone as I get a cable (I did forget to take it from the office).

    For now I did a small check using the Acer Labtop conecting the Maxtor 250GB with 1394 firewire (100Mb)
    K:\20041127_ath3200_c.tib file size 1,279,563,776 on Maxtor 250GB via 1394
    The MD5 is every time THE SAME!!!
    This comparison is a bit unfare because the Acer is far slower the my home PC (Acer P4/1600Mhz , Home-PC ATHLON64/3200) and the 1394 is not full speed (400Mb) but only 100Mbit/s.
    But it give us a hint that perhaps the READ-ERRORS acure more often if the USB2.0 is driven to its limits. Or USB2.0 hase problems if the file size exeeds a limit, ( remember that I didnt have problems with the 300MB files).

    I dont know what it is but I hope ACRONIS will help us to resolve this matter! Perhaps ACRONIS must add a double check while sending/receiving the data to check that the port(USB or 1394 or LAN100Mb) is not sending/receiving rubbish, or you have to add a SLOWDOWN BRAKE not to drive the ports to the limits, or some other trick.

    If the hardware hase really such problems then it seems to me we will not get many support from the manufactorers. The pc MFG will say its the error of the USB-card on your PC, the USB-card MFG will say its the external drive error or the chipset of the IDE-USB bridge, the external drive MFG will say its the PC-USB card error, all will say perhaps its a defect cable.......... and we will be the stupid users....

    Stefanos Albanidis
    sa@tronicpool.com
    Tronicpool GmbH
    Germany
     
  9. bigg1

    bigg1 Registered Member

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    the problem does not seem to be related to USB, firewire or LAN
    I had the same problem when I burned an image stored on the local disk (and reported to be OK) to a DVD.
    Then TI reported the image on the DVD as corrupt, and the MD5 checksum tool calculated two different checksums when I run it twice for the same file.

    On the other hand, the md5 sum tool reported the same results for the file on my local HDD, and for the same file copied to a USB HDD - but TI reported the latter to be corrupt.
    This makes me think it's a more general problem not related to the storage location - although apparently it does not appear if you save the image to the local disk.

    I think it will be interesting to know the following:

    Has anyone tested a "OK" and "corrupt" image with another CRC tool and what were the results ?

    Has anyone tested an "OK" image stored on the local disk, and then copied to another partition on the same disk (I only have 2 partitions so can't test this)

    Is the same algorithm used in md5sum.exe also used in TI ?

    Has anyone successfully restored a "corrupt" image ?

    I hope Acronis will soon reproduce and fix this problem. It makes the program practically unusable for me, now I'm afraid to restore even an "OK" image. :mad:
     
  10. Ed Y

    Ed Y Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Posts:
    86
    I have checked a couple of images with the Directory Print program at this site. Same results. By the way, that's also a handy little piece of freeware.

    web site
     
  11. Tsu

    Tsu Registered Member

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    Holy Cow... I started at the top of this forum where this discussion is also taking place in another thread "Who has not ...." and replied there before seeing this massive discussion.

    How about less "me too" posts and acknowledge there is a problem of large file read/writing and it probably is not an Acronis issue. If anyone has resolved the problem recognize that their solution will probably be unique for their environment.

    I'll quote myself from the other thread.

    Large File Corruption is an ugly situation and Google will give you a preview of what you are up against http://www.google.ca/search?q=large...r=&start=0&sa=N

    While you puzzle out the unique solution for YOUR environment, your first priority, IMHO, if you are running mission critical backups/images, is to see if any smaller file size will copy okay and then start Acronis on all those systems with that setting immediately. Then persue your hardware/BIOS/USB permanent solution

    Remember, this is not an Acronis problem as they are just using the your O/S and hardware to do reads and writes. Luckily for me I have only encountered this once before on a single system and was accidentally discovered when copying large MSI files to an archive disk and then later trying to use them to reinstall applications. This wasn't even a USB disk.

    WINZIP and other archivers are useful tools for testing as you can easily create a file size of your choice using multiple copies of a single 100mb file, then, try and extract all from this archive with no CRC errors.​

    Good luck to all
     
  12. CooL3

    CooL3 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Posts:
    10
    Hi,

    Maybe it's of no meaning but want to let you know.
    If you are using an external USB2 HDD check if the drive is set to CS (Cable Select).
    This is because USB chipsets are not that smart and known to have trouble with HDD set to master or slave.

    Good luck. :)

    [EDIT]
    In the other thread I can read people have to set it for master.

    Well, obviously there are differences in EXT USB2 drives. :eek:
    I have a Sitecom MD-200 enclosure and Western Digital Caviar model WD1600JB-22FUA0 160GB HDD.
    Sitecom recommends to put the HDD in Cable Select mode.

    CooL3.
    [/EDIT]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2005
  13. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    Feb 4, 2005
    Posts:
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    I want to add the results of the data-transfer speed of my USB2.0
    PC Ahtlon64/3200 512MB ASROCK K8 comboboard with usb20 120GB-UDMA5 disk, External disk MAXTOR XT5000 250GB with USB2.0 and 1394
    Testfile size about 3.6GB

    Copy from PC to MAXTOR via USB20 200Mbit/sek
    Copy from MAXTOR via USB20 to PC 164Mbit/sek

    So I am under 40% of the theoretical limit of USB20 --> 480Mbit/sek

    An other interesting comparison, copy the same file on PC on the same IDE-disk from one partition to the other --> ONLY 62Mbit/sek

    So copying from on same disk (different patitions) is 3 time SLOWER then via USB20

    Some new test that I did

    1.
    I created a TI 80/791 image with my pc on the IDE disk splittet im 100MB. Totaly i did get 25 files (appr. 2.5 GB)
    Then I did copy this files to the MAXTOR XT5000 250GB via USB 2.0
    The MD5 of all files is O.k.

    2.
    I created a TI 80/791 image with my pc on the IDE disk splittet im 600MB. Totaly i did get 4 files (appr. 2.5 GB)
    Then I did copy this files to the MAXTOR XT5000 250GB via USB 2.0
    The MD5 of all files ARE WRONG

    What does this mean?
    I did copy 2 times the same total amount of bytes
    1. time splittet in 100MB and checksum is allways o.k.
    2. time splittet in 600MB and checksum is allways wrong
    On my system USB2.0 produce errors writing or at least reading files that are "too" big. Since copying the files in both cases were made at "same speed" (via USB2.0) the USB speed cant be error source!!
    The only difference is the file size, IS THIS THE KEY?

    And if yes WHYo_O

    Is it related to the free memory of my PC? I have 512MB total ~400MB free??

    I will do some test with 1394 soon

    3. TEST of LAN 100Mbit/ data transfer
    I did copy a 1.2GB file from my Athlon64/3200 to my Acer labtop via LAN, the switch was an Vigor 2500We router (DSL modem as DHCP)
    The total speed I did get was 74Mbit/sek, MD5 was o.k.!
     
  14. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    I did one test to see if the error acoure while writing the data from PC-IDE to the Maxtor 250GB ext drive via USB20.

    1. I did copy a 1.2 GB file from PC-IDE to MAxtor via USB2.0
    2. I did check the MD5 of the file on the PC-IDE
    3. I did disconnect the Maxtor from PC
    4. I connected the Maxtor with Acer Labtop via 1394 (100Mbit no problems with this pc no corupted files)
    5. I did check the MD5 of the file on the MAXTOR 3 times

    The MD5 result of all 3 calculations via 1394 was the same so the ACER Labtop was reading every time exact the same data!

    But the MD5 on the original file was different!!

    Conclusion:
    The error accures right from the START WRITING THE DATA via USB20 to the external disk! Of cause the error in the copied file is stable, it does not change! So the different MD5 results on the same file must accure because with every reading I have differnt errors in the USB20 transfer.
     
  15. hgratt

    hgratt Registered Member

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    Could the problem be with the Maxtor and large files? Is there anyway you could try another brand of External USB HDD?
     
  16. hoser_d

    hoser_d Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2004
    Posts:
    43
    I mentioned this in the other related post, my EXT USB HDD is a Western Digital, and everyone of my images were corrupt after time. They were all created and checked out OK initially.
     
  17. wokoenig

    wokoenig Registered Member

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    Aug 14, 2004
    Posts:
    49
    Hello Support,
    I#m here wellknow with my problems with corrupted Imagefiles (burn to DVD)
    I do love TI 6/7/8.x but I hate the sensitivity of the Imagefiles from TI.

    3 examples:
    1. If I copy an image to another partition from my HD-> corrupted
    2. On my other PC an Image is there fine. If I verify it over network -> corrupted ( why ??)
    3. and as ever: no change to burn an image to a DVD correctly :-(

    Such problems I havn't with other Imagetools.
     
  18. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    Feb 4, 2005
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    Hallo Wolfgang

    I dont know if its help but please try this, make your IMAGES with splitting files (f.e. only 100MB). o.k. you will get many small files but who cares, then copy all of them like you did before and check them, I bet it will work
     
  19. wokoenig

    wokoenig Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Posts:
    49

    Hallo ,
    thx for your attention,
    but always the same. I have 32 Files a 100 MB and I have copied them to another Partition-> corrupted.

    A general other problem is:
    The results of verifying an image ist often very different between Windows and Start CD from TI.
    Thats the cause I verify all my Images only with Start CD ( or Startmanager)
     
  20. Tsu

    Tsu Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
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    This discussion appears to have boiled down to corrupt files AFTER copying them. If so, it is not a TI problem. A file is a file. Your operating system, when doing I/O on a copy, doesn't know that file from any other. It's just a bunch of 1's and 0's.

    The other imaging software you refer to - are you making similararly sized large files. If you can verify the original but fail after copying that image, it is the copy process that is failing and not the original file creation.

    Please also see comment is the other thread " Who has not...."

    Mods? perhaps these 2 threads should be moved out of the Acronis Support and into a general discussion.
     
  21. Tsu, in response to your comment:
    "How about less "me too" posts and acknowledge there is a problem of large file read/writing and it probably is not an Acronis issue. If anyone has resolved the problem recognize that their solution will probably be unique for their environment."

    Well, me too. Had the same problem with corrupt images, but rather than struggling to find a fix, I tried a different imaging program. Guess what--no more corrupt images. I made no changes to my system, either hardware or software, except for uninstalling Acronis 8.0. Makes me believe that Trueimage is at least part of the problem.
     
  22. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    Hello Klattu
    think a little deeper about this problem. You use now a other software for imaging. Did you REALLY CHECK that all the files a 100% the o.k.? That a software dont TELL YOU that you have corrupted data doesnt mean its a better software (not for me), it only DONT CHECK and DONT SHOW you this information (I dont see f.e. the air so it does not exist??)! If True Image would not make this CHECK, NO ONE WOULD ASK OR TALK ABOUT THIS PROBLEM HERE. Its the first and only Software I use that makes files that BIG and do a VERIFICATION on the data!
    So your solution (using an other imaging software) may be a big illusion!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2005
  23. brandis

    brandis Registered Member

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    My external MAXTOR XT5000 250GB is NTFS, so I dont think it is related to FAT/NTFS.

    Different results with WINDOWS or Start CD ? The acronis start CD is a LINUX system, it uses totaly differt drivers then Windows.....
     
  24. Ed Y

    Ed Y Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
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    The corrupt problem also happens even if the file is not copied but created straight to the USB external disk with TI and then running the TI "check image" on it. I agree it very probably is not a TI problem BUT since my testing options are limited, I am not 100% sure of that. YET.
     
  25. Brandis,
    Your English is hard to follow. I think you're trying to say that if my imaging software doesn't verify, then I wouldn't know if the images were corrupt or not. Well it does verify the image on a byte-for-byte basis. More importantly, I've restored my system with these images, something I was unable to do with ATI's corrupt images. No illusion here.

    Same system in both cases----Acronis images are corrupt, non-Acronis images are verified and functional.
     
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