Data Backup Strategy

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by richrf, Oct 21, 2004.

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  1. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    I've tested the following proggies: Bootitng, IFW, IFD, TI 7 server, Ghost 2002/2003, and Drive Snapshot.

    Bootit is the most powerful software with a $35 price tag. It is very stable and is near the top of the pack with image creation/restoration speed. The upgrade policy is superb (we're at 1.6 and the license is good till 1.9). Novice users MAY find the full menu a little intimidating. However, the default configuration works well for most systems.

    Snapshot is my second choice IF you don't have more than one primary partition. This program cannot image a hidden primary partition in Windows. It's a small program with good speed.

    IFW (IFD included in package) is very similar to Snapshot. This is the program to get if you want to image from windows. It can image hidden primary partitions, but it may be a little harder to use than Snapshot. Unfortunately, you cannot fully test IFW because the trial download does not include IFD.

    TI 7 server work okay for me, but it changes the cluster size of my partition to a default value of 4K.

    Ghost is best for drive cloning.
     
  2. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Nod,

    Thanks a lot for the additional info. I have only one partition on each machine that I will backing up. It seems from your message that Snapshot is a good pick but Bootit seems a very good buy also. If I were interested strictly in reliability, would there be any difference between the two? Thanks.

    Rich
     
  3. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    If you only have one partition, then you will need to reboot with the boot disc if you want to restore the data using Snapshot. This applies to ALL imaging software that run from windows. You will need to burn the image file to another hard drive or other type of removable media (CD-Rs, DVDs, etc).

    Because Bootit ng runs OUTSIDE of windows, it is theoretically more reliable than ANY windows-based imaging software, like Snapshot. Since windows is 100% dormant during the image creation/restoration procedure, there is less chance that something can go wrong. You can also use Bootit to create another extended logical partition in your hard drive. And you can use this partition to store the image files. It's a very quick way to backup your operating system.

    I have not encountered any problem with Snapshot during my trial. However, I was unable to restore an image file made by True Image 7 Server (another windows-based imaging software). I like to keep it simple by doing everything OUTSIDE of windows. That's why I use Bootit ng. Why waste the time to backup your data when you cannot quickly and reliably restore the image file?
     
  4. Devinco

    Devinco Registered Member

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    Thanks nod32_9,

    So Drive Snapshot does not have an option to backup outside of windows?
    (I know it can restore outside of windows, but does it have an option to backup outside of windows?)

    Also, how would you compare partition backup speed between bootit ng and Drive Snapshot?
    How about compression levels between the two?

    Good thread! I'm learning a lot here!
     
  5. GlobalForce

    GlobalForce Regular Poster

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    Hi nod32_9,

    I've got a friend from the "old school", the time before windows. I ask lots of questions surrounding the command prompt, this due to his emphasis that things done in DOS are absolute. There's no delete to the recycle bin in DOS, it's just gone! Being relatively new to computers, most of what I've learned up to this point is in windows.

    A question if I may. When you say you "like to keep it simple and do everything outside of windows", could you please elaborate. I also like a simple and efficient way of getting stuff done. Do YOU operate Bootit ng from the command line?
    I suppose I'm asking of your past experience's...

    Thanks for the work you've done with the mentioned software. It has aroused my interest.
    I'll need to do a little research of my own.......

    Here's a good page with screenies at members.shaw


    GF
     
  6. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Devinco:

    I used "DOS" to restore an active primary partition, and it works. Also didn't have any problem restoring from windows an extended logical partition that is NOT in use. I don't see a special boot disc that would allow me to IMAGE the partition OUTSIDE of windows. Perhaps you could email tech support (te@tomehlert.de) for additional clarification. Please repost with your finding.

    http://www.drivesnapshot.de/en/restdos.htm


    Also note the following comment from the vendor:

    Do I have to shutdown all windows programs (highly recommended)

    No. It's probably a good idea to save your open files before starting Snapshot Backup. Otherwise you would eventually get outdated data on your disk. After starting the Backup, you may continue to work normally, the image will reflect the data at start time.



    On my system, Snapshot is faster (3 to 7%). The resulting image file size is about the same. If you work in windows while Snapshot is running, then you should expect a longer processing time. Snapshot automatically compress the image file. It is possible to defeat compression in Bootit for faster imaging speed.

    "As SnapShot uses a huge amount of disk IO (~15 MB/sec for P700), Snapshot would bring down a typical Windows program start to a crawl. So Snapshot watches for any user disk activity and will pause for a short while, so the user application runs at nearly full speed."



    GlobalForce

    To copy everything in a partition, the image software must archive ALL the data in the partition at a specific point in time, and translate this data to an image file. This can be a very complicated task in a windows environment, especially with future yet-to-be release windows software and hardware. Also note that windows NT will not grant access to some files that are in use.

    A non-windows based imaging software works outside of windows. It can access ALL the data. None of the data will change while the image file is being created. No need for fancy image capture mode. Bootit ng, for example, has a simple windows-like screen to create and restore the image file. You can access it during PC boot.

    You can create the image file from windows with windows-based software. Some program will require you to reboot to achieve a "lock" on the partition. In this case, you may need to insert a boot disc to load the program. It is possible to restore from within windows IF the restore partition is NOT in use. Otherwise, you still need to reboot with the boot disc. People who push windows-based imaging software don't tell you about these special circumstances!

    It is possible to do EVERYTHING once you are in the Bootit ng screen. No special boot disc. No need to lock on a partition. No special DOS command.
     
  7. Devinco

    Devinco Registered Member

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    Thanks for the info nod32_9.
     
  8. GlobalForce

    GlobalForce Regular Poster

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    Thanks much nod32_9 for taking the time to reply and explain my inquisition.

    I notice on occasion during a particular execution in windows I can't complete a task because of the "files in use" issue.
    I do think to go to the command prompt, but like I said my skills in this area are still to be desired.
    Am I correct in summizing this lack of access to certain files could cause some issues when attempting to restore from a saved image created in windows, due to the imaging software itself demanding use of system files during image creation?

    Outside of windows, no data change, all access, no fancy modes. Sounds real logical. I'm aware companies are out there
    to feed the hype :D I'm pretty much a skeptic when it comes to all the wares available claiming all the things they can do,
    while avoiding those "special circumstances." You mentioned Bootit could be a little intimidating for a novice, though I'd categorize myself as a novice who employs a systematic approach to getting tasks done. Not having many programs on
    my system to begin with would afford me more quality time with Bootit. I'm aware I can trial the program.

    You've placed well the perspective. It makes more sense to me now the reasons for accomplishing this objective,
    "outside of windows."

    Again, thanks for your time. ;)


    GF
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2004
  9. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    There are many other variables that could render the image file un-usable. I have described the two most important factors that could affect the "quality" of the image file. In theory, the image should work if the program could capture EVERYTHING on the partition in a specific point in time. BTW, it is not necessary to image the stuffs in the pagefile. With Bootit ng, I can create an extended logical partition and dump the pagefile in this partition. You can also move the stuffs in the Driver Cache folder to this partition.

    You may get the file in use error message because the program was not properly terminated or there was an error in executing something within the program. Check Task Manager to see if this program is still running. Shut it down (from Task Manager) and relaunch the program. You may need to reboot if this trick does not clear up the fault.

    The key to system stability is to be very selective with what you put in the PC. More software translate to more problem you may encounter down the road. There are NO perfect software. You want to put together an assortment of proggies that will get along with each other. Keep the number of startup items to a minimum. I only have a firewall and an e-mail AV scanner.
     
  10. Devinco

    Devinco Registered Member

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    Well I got a response from Tom at Drive Snapshot. That is another speedy response and yet more proof that bigger companies are not always better.
    Anyway, Drive snapshot only backs up from within windows.

    Both programs look capable and are definately worth considering.
     
  11. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    That's too bad. The developer must have a lot of confidence in this software to make it "windows-only" during the image creation process. Never say never in the software business. I know that I had to run TI 7 server from the boot disc because it could not lock a partition.
     
  12. TomEhlert

    TomEhlert Guest

    Yes, of course it's necessary to capture EVERYTHING at a specific point of time. And - yes - this can be done.

    Drive Snapshot will never save the contents of Pagefile.sys; neither of hiberfil.sys

    Yes - he has ;)
    Imaging from a frozen system was state of the art 1995, similar as you had stand still for 5 minutes to take a picture at around 1900. The name is program.
     
  13. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi all,

    Does anyone know of a forum that actively discusses Drive Snapshot experiences? Thanks.

    Rich
     
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