ShadowProtect vs. ATI

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by ErikAlbert, May 24, 2007.

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  1. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    i don't see any benefit to have more than one,incidentally my laptop came with only one,as long as you have your have personal data on more places......can't go wrong !
     
  2. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I have 3 partitions (1) Win Xp and programs - produces an image of 3.62 gb
    (2) data - image 9.5 gb (3) 3 space for 3 system images.

    data and extra system images are kept on external drives and off site.

    I always have 3 system images on the 3rd partition - using Acronis it take 6 minutes for a full image ( typically made while having coffee first thing in the morning) - restores take about 9 minutes.

    For one reason or another I restore at least once or twice a day. Having to restore the whole drive ( including data) would take longer. Other machines ( I have 7 ) are configured differently ( using FD-ISR for example). Having one internal physical drive for OS + Programs, One physical drive for data for me is best but does cost more.

    So for older one drive machines partitioning can have advantages
     
  3. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    a backup and restore my whole drive takes 20 min.i do this ones a week,for me thats not a problem,but i can see if you have that many rigs or in a corporate environment partitioning is the way to go cause lowering downtime.
     
  4. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Different people, different opinions, different backgrounds. My brother and my sister don't even see the benefit of backup, just like other people don't see the benefit of separating their data files from system files and like to put their precious data in the most attacked partition [C:]. I know why I did it and that's enough for me. :)
     
  5. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I think a stay well protected in spite off everything on C. I image allways C once a week. to stay current with pers. files i make separate backups daily with copies on two ext.drives.I may trash everything as long as my important data stay secure. i use Bootback and SP to recover if disaster strikes,what more can i do !?!
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    The trouble with backup is that images/archives are always from YESTERDAY or OLDER, if you don't archive/backup every day.
    As long nothing serious happens to your partition [C:] this doesn't matter.

    If you have to restore your partition [C:] completely, than you will lose all your updatings of TODAY or worse. If your data is stored on another partition [D:], you won't lose these updatings of TODAY, no matter what happens to your partition [C:].
    TODAY can be a long period of several hours of updatings.
     
  7. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    i don't mind to have images from over a week old or older they are a last resort if everything goes wrong,after a restore what i am missing in the restored image,software downloads,newest virusdef, M$ updates so what!!,i can put them back fast. my main concern is to keep my pers. data as pristine as possible,freqently updated and spread on different ext. locations,and sure you guess to restore without a hitch,there are many freeware app.out there who fit perfectly !
     
  8. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Sorry,we drift away from topic,lets get right on track !
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Me also. On my critical machine, I run an SP job, that takes incremental images every 15 minutes. They take an average of 5 seconds.

    In fact look what a mess I got into by creating more partitions.:D :D :D
     
  10. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Can you explain this in a little more detail? A program problem? A user problem?

    So, assuming your PC has a floppy drive, even the "Windows 98 Startup Disk" fdisk /mbr would not work?

    I assume there are Linux boot floppies that can do fdisk type activities, and they would probably work... right?

    Mike
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Mike

    On the first question I don't know. I used the partition editor in the IT edition of Shadowprotect and that zero'd out the table essentially deleting it and solved a problem. Did the same thing with Acronois disk director and ouch. Not even a warning.

    I don't know about the Win98 disk. I need to be able to load the drivers for the nvidia raid or my disks are invisible. Fixmbr probably wouldn't have worked. I had a floppy with the mbr fix I made with FDISR. I ran it and it gave an error.

    I downloaded WD's utilities for my disk, but again no raid drivers so no workie. Fortunately BootitNG came to the rescue.

    And for anyone reading this NO, I will not repeat this experience to test other recovery solutions.:D :D :D

    Pete
     
  12. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    I see why you are a Global Moderator... mean! :p

    Mike
     
  13. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    what about time taken to restore ? or are you using FD-ISR so you use snapshots ? Unless you have very little data, or SP is very fast or.... then restoring must be slower.

    In any event I just don't feel comfortable mixing OS/Programs and data. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of one physical hard drive ( 150 gig ) for OS and programs and another physical drive for data. no partitions but system and data keep apart. I would imagine that Acronis, Paragon or SP could be used equally well here depending upon preference.
     
  14. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    Peter, I think that Disk Director must have been the culprit. It has resulted in BSOD's for me in the past. I was, however, able to recover with ATI.
     
  15. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Hmm, I see a pattern... Win98 trashed by DD (again) :eek:

    Mike
     
  16. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Ok, I tested PHDM 8.5 (and it turned out to be a major disappointment). Writing it up now....
     
  17. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    flinchlock,
    You see, we arrogant FDISR-users thought we were invincible with Image Backup.
    But we are not. A simple test ended up in a total disaster of EIGHT hours.

    This happened before you know, during a routine test at Tjernobil.
     
  18. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    What I did to test PHDM:

    In order to reduce the number of variables in this test, I decided to first uninstall Rollback Rx. Then I backed-up the single 80 GB partition of the C-drive using ATI (from within Windows) and verified the image. This was a precautionary measure, just in case PHDM didn't do the job (as you will see, it's a good thing I did this)!

    Next, I used PHDM to 'split' the single partition into 3 equally sized partitions. Leaving Windows and Programs on the C-partition, I moved My Documents Folder to the D-partition and copied some mp3 and jpg files to the E-partition. Creating the 3-partitions went smoothly and then (using PHDM from within Windows), I created and verified an image of the entire physical C-Drive, onto my external (Maxtor) USB2 drive. I then created and verified an image of each of the 3 individual partitions, onto the USB drive. Creation of all images went smoothly and Windows Explorer revealed all of the images I created on the USB drive.

    I then formatted my test system's C-drive and afterwards booted the system using the PHDM Emergency Boot CD. That's when I started feeling sick to my stomach because although the PHDM Boot CD saw the test system's unformatted 80GB HDD, it did not see my USB drive! Repeated attempts brought the same problem, so there was no way I could restore any of the PHDM images from my USB drive. The only thing left for me to do was to try my ATI Boot CD and voila, there was my USB drive! Then ATI went on to successfully restore the entire C-drive image that it created earlier (without any problems whatsoever).

    Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive, its restoration abilities are of no value to me. In a disaster-situation you have to be able to rely on the disk-image program's Emergency Boot CD, and PHDM's CD failed me in a disaster situation. I realize some others here do not have this problem with PHDM's Boot CD, but these types of issues are hardware-specific. :doubt:

    Someday I'll test SP, but until I do, ATI continues to do the job for me (on each of my 3 systems)! :thumb:
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You know you are in real trouble when an official Windows XP CD BSOD's.
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Longview

    Yes the restore time was longer. How much was dependent on how many incrementals. Still nice having a place to roll back to during the day.

    I've been running with one partition and everything on it, OS and Data for over 5 years. It has yet to cause me a single problem. It's a matter of preference.
     
  21. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    VERY SORRY...

    Hard Disk Manager 8.5 => NO USB support.

    Drive Backup 8.51
    Mike
     
  22. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Erik for a long time explained to death his preference for multipartitions up til recently,and yes it boils down in the end to pers.choice based on logic rather then evidence in real world experience,afterall majority off the wildersclan are homeusers.Another story is the corporate environment with hundred or thousends systems,partition here will pay cause imaging the systempartition is fast,everything else is backed up to dataservers 24/7.Here as well as in home environment as always, generated data is the most important,you can replace systemfiles but not pers.data !!
     
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Huupi,
    Two single partition users will certainly agree with eachother.
    If you are not used to multiple partitions accidents can happen, that doesn't mean it is wrong.
    At work with have applications enough that can't afford losing their updatings of today. Home users usually don't care about that.
     
  24. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    ironic since the ATI recovery cd's i have made dont even boot.
    paragon recovery cd cant see my external drive so ive asked support to make me a winpe recovery cd for me.
    if you have a full windows xp sp2 d you can create a bartpe cd with the paragon plugin.
    that will see your external drive and be able to restore.
    acronis has worse driver suport IMHO.
    lodore
     
  25. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Huupi - I certainly agree that generated data is the most important thing. I keep images of data in a fire proof safe, on hand held external drives that travel with me, on external drives held off site, on write once DVD. Could if required restore data from CD Aug 1996, jazz drive from earlier or zip from the dark ages.

    BUT I don't see how the importance of data supports the single partition argument. If anything the importance of data suggests that having several partitions ( or preferably several 2 hard drives ?) As Erik says - accidents do happen. But as Peter says - he has worked for 5 years without issue.

    If I have read the posts though I get the impression that ATI handles partitions better ? At a practical level I can and do restore C: when half asleep. Can SH do the same as easily ? I don't know but unless it can restore C: and leave my other partitions alone it is a non starter. I droped Paragon simply because it required me to change drive labels. A program has to allow the user to operate the way the user wants to operate and not the other way round.

    Even though the question of partition is a personal choice I have to say that on my fastest machine Acronis 10 can make a system image in 40 seconds and restore in under 2 minutes. Adding all my data to the image would slow things down somewhat and unnecessarily backup and restore data every time I wanted to trial software.
     
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