NOD32 + Latest Starforce "Driver"

It's hard to be civil when, Dennis Zhidkov called users with problems beginner level hackers - as seen on Cnet; even they've been battling with Starforce.
That was the straw that broke the cammel's back.
So, to me it's hard not to be emmontional, we are human after all. Gamers spend boatloads of cash on their systems and games. When something as invasive as Starforce threatens their systems, of course they will react with passion.

It's not all about destroying Starforce, we just want some respect from the people we made rich. We've asked them to atleast label the box with the Starforce logo, or similar, so we have a choice. Another reason: if these companies are so proud of this product and think it helps them to cut down on piracy, then please, share the news. But there's been no response to that either, leading to further frustration.

We've tried to comminicate with Ubi in private threads, gathering user's problems via email at the request of the publisher. When presented with the findings, the door was shut in our face by the Ubi. What are we supposed to think? Where do we turn? Starforce doesn't want to address the problems, they've made that clear time and time again.

When I see, gaming magazines denouncing Starforce, gamespot moderators commenting on how disgusted they are with this company, you start to think something's wrong and we're not a bunch of witch hunters as some perceive.

 

No, hold on, the statement was out of context, here is the original post.
https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=714938&postcount=28
I don't see how that was loaded with anger. I did post the link to the article, where everything could be read. How does that lose objectivity?

 

Nobody here has pointed any fingers at you.

If this thread is any indication, you (not just you personally) have a lot of work to do to prove otherwise. Just look at the responses here to those that have dared to say anything that wasn't negative about SF, and even those that have tried to help in some way.

Take some time, go back over the thread, read all the links and responses. Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone not involved. You've taken a lot of things personally that you really shouldn't have.. that only works against you. Also keep in mind what website you are on, what this site is about (this is a technical and educational forum about computer security).

So are they. Think about how much abuse they've taken throughout the ordeal, and imagine it was you that all of that was being directed at.. mostly because of something another company didn't do.

Actually they said that they have several tests for me to start out with.

There are obviously a lot of raw nerves on both sides of the situation. Nobody here is telling anyone to just drop the issue, just that the current approach isn't likely to go very far. What needs to happen is that people need to take some time to breathe and reasess the situation. What are you really trying to achieve, and how is what you're doing going to get that? I've worked with a lot of developers, and I can tell you that it's not easy work, and they can't just mystically divine the information they need to fix any problem. For them to do their job, they need straight technical facts, with as much detail as possible. If you focus reports on opinion, they will always lack critical details. Communication also has to be open and two-way.. you'll probably have to put some time into thinking about how to facilitate that. Keep in mind that there IS a language barrier with foriegn developers and don't underestimate the significance of that, it will even include cultural differences.

 

Yes, he was LOOKING to see if there was any he didn't know about is the point. Why would he need to do that if it was so benign as you said? Why would one of the most knowledgable Windows experts on the planet need to look for Starforce crap without already knowing it was on their system?

Can we say stealth install like Sony's XCP?

Not blind faith? Oh sure, how many Starforce protected games have you used to verify that SF is rock stable and doesn't damage optical drives? How much research have you done compared to say the technical report by CGW?

And let me rephrase, because one or two employees tasked for tech support returned your email over a year about a completely different product, you are so sure that yet another completely different product can't be bad. That's your whole reasoning right?

Do you like any Sony products? I hope you don't because this commits you to liking XCP rootkits.

You personally don't feel is valid based on what? Your vast experience of using zero Starforce protected games? Oh right, the topic is about SF copy protection not your precious Safe'n'Sec program. Remember?

You are ignorant Peter, because you are not a gamer. SF provides forums for direct technical support and question about SF drivers! They are taking an active role in promoting their 'product' to gamers and vendors alike. That is why they are getting queries and brickbats. This is unlike say XCP/Sony.

What did you think? People hacked Starforce's website, installed a forum and started posting problems there?

No doubt you would know all this, if you really cared, but as you already stated on this forum, you are 'not a gamer it doesn't really matter'.

The fact that gamers are trying to post there asking for help proves that they are trying to solve those problems. It is the lack of response there, the way they direct posts they don't like that is the problem. I give you one thing, those who totally boycott SF, won't be posting there, I certainly don't.

Rubbish. If there is one thing good about Starforce is that they are not shy about what they do. They have never blamed Ubisoft or whatever for any problems. Why should they? Their stand is there is no problems and any problems encountered are rumors.

Let me stop you here Mr Notok. This is a technical and educational forum about using computer security software. And apparantly because Starforce has a fairly popular security product here, people think it's a great company and like Google, does no evil!

Besides No offense to this forum but If you are the example of a highly respected poster, the technical level here can't be that high. Particularly not one who gets angry when he is corrected on a technical issue.

Someone who is 'not involved' - not a gamer, shouldn't be taking sides anyway.

If Sony did this, you guys would be all be up in arms, but because it's the company that products SafenSec, you think it's a great product!

 

To all:

This thread is about the StarForce "driver".

Please stick to the primary topic at hand, not the personalities commenting on the StarForce driver either pro or con. I appreciate that the dynamic of the discussion here may be influenced by the course and tenor discussions held in other venues, but let's try to minimize that as well.

Finally, since anyone can see that some of the exchanges between midfingr and I are also bounded by my comments above, please note that we've both pursued that line of discussion where it is most appropriately played out - offline via PM. I'd suggest others follow that lead if necessary.

Blue

 

=)

http://www.celestialheavens.com/index.php#1144858644

Ubisoft to Drop Starforce

 

The tide is turning against Starforce's copy protection scheme....

 

Statements like this show considerable ignorance on the part of the poster. Starforce's Safe'n'Sec doesn't even have a forum here (unlike products like NOD32, Process Guard, etc) so to refer to it as "fairly popular" is unjustified - if you check the (relatively) few threads dealing with SnS you'll find posters being frank about its weaknesses (PITA activation) as well as its strengths.

"No offense"? Your wording indicates very deliberate offense and if that is your preferred means of responding to others, then no-one here should concern themselves with whatever you say. On, "no offense"...

If you can't differentiate between a rootkit and a device driver (which does not attempt to hide its existence), then you really are in no position to make judgements. I would not tolerate StarForce myself and boycott games using it, but these sort of unwarranted statements not only confuse the issue but strengthen Zhidkov's hand when he starts posting his diatribes about a global plot against Security Technologies...

 

Dear Mr Paranoid2000, If they had a forum here, I would say "popular" instead of fairly popular right? What's a step down from popular? Right "fairly popular". Or should I have said somewhat popular?

You can get into semantics all night if you want. In any case, a search of safensec shows 150 entries. Pretty good for a product that doesn't have a forum here and more importantly is a fairly new product, don't you say? What other new product without a forum can match that? Online armor?

More importantly, by their own admission we have people in this thread, who have no experience with SF copy protection boldly supporting SF copyprotection simply because they use safensec.

Just as frank as they are with ProcessGuard, NOD32 , so what? Does that mean those products are not popular either?

None taken. I can tell the difference, altough super stars like the authors of Boclean sometimes can't.

Mr Paranoid2k It seems that you claim to have some technical expertise, but please don't assume that you are the only one with it. Nowhere did I call SF a rootkit. That term is overused anyway, and is increasingly used for manipulation of public opinion anyway similar to the way people labelling software as spyware.

Can it be harmful without being a rootkit? You betcha. Is it X? Is it Y? Who cares! More important is the question what does it do! So it's not a rootkit but it can cause damage. Woo Hoo!

By the way I was simply comparing Sony XCP to Starforce in the way it is installed . without permission. And the adverse effects both had on system stability.