TDS software line discontinued

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Wayne - DiamondCS, Jul 22, 2005.

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  1. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi worldcitizen,

    My guess is that DiamondCS will present a more comprehensive package, that will address all of the above mentioned issues, for all users, before any new product is release. Sometimes things just take time to resolve themselves.

    What I hope is that any final plan (Don's was very well thought out), is healthy for the company (because DiamondCS does create good products - and dead companies can't produce anything any more), and fair/equitable to its customer base. Healthy companies and healthy customer bases are important to everyone. I think it was Lincoln who said, "A house divided cannot stand". :) Makes sense.

    Rich
     
  2. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

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    quote reposted as a reminder and respectful request:
    Frustration due to this action by DCS is understandable....even if I don't own or use their software....but let's Please keep the "TDS 4 Guard but with the name changed so as to avoid giving out the 'free upgrades'" speculations for the Enquirer type articles.

    Also....as most know....the weekend is an off time for DCS. Perhaps the upcoming week will have given DCS ample time to have heard from their customers via this thread....and the other threads spread out across other Security Forums on the net.
     
  3. steverio

    steverio Registered Member

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    As an owner of all of DCS products I am waiting to see what unfolds at this moment. I hope this decision of theirs and the comments being made here in detail will bring forth some re-thinking.

    It would be most unfortunate for someone's reputation to be mucked up over one misstep by overshadowing all the good they have done. DCS has the opportunity to define themselves further , if they wish.
     
  4. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Steve,

    Yes, I totally agree. Between TDS-3 (a pioneering effort for its time), ProcessGuard (also a pioneering effort), WormGuard, Port Explorer, etc. DiamondCS has provided lots of excellent security products to its customer base and to the general population (any product that helps stop the spread of malware, helps the entire population).

    This company deserves to continue on a healthy footing - and customers deserve to be treated fairly. I am confident that both will happen.

    Cya,
    Rich
     
  5. Edwin024

    Edwin024 Registered Member

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    DCS have quite something to repair in the near or further future. I'm happy that I chose to go for Ewido and Counterspy to do the trick....
     
  6. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

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    Bubba,

    When Wayne tells us on a friday the TDS software line is discontinued, he knows very, very well a lot of people are very disappointed about that decision, and are also disappointed in DCS.

    Therefore this weekend should not be off time for DCS, he must answer all the questions and remarks in this Official DiamondCS Public Forum, and answer all the emails DCS received about his decision, weekend or not.

    He can not say: "I don't work the weekends", that's rubbish, in that case he better placed his annoucement on a monday.

    But Wayne let us down for the second time: first with the TDS melt-down, and second with our frustrations this weekend.
     
  7. Lou_Dinunzio

    Lou_Dinunzio Registered Member

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    Well said steverio.

    Over the years we all spend thousands or $$$ on computers, hardware,software,IP fees,etc. etc. etc. There is no end. When was the last time you made a major purchase and got a lemon? Why bitch about a lousy $40? Get on with life.

    My best to Wayne and crew in whatever they do.

    On a serious note. Does anyone know what dlls TDS-3 installed that I can delete?

    Thank You
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Sad thing here Kevin is both you and Wayne are models of customer service for the little guy. I've personally experienced the yellow box. I do hope you can hang in there, cause I know you are good for the market place. I know Wayne and DCS have some neat stuff in store for the market. THe comments above re just repackaging TDS to get out from under commitments, is from folks who just can't believe there are some good guys around. We know better.

    Pete
     
  9. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    I can completely sympathize, WC, but think we should probably wait to see the new product before making any determination or speculation. I bought TDS3 for TDS4, too, because I wanted to support DCS. I also bought all the other stuff for the same reason.. I wanted to support them as much as possible. Without their upgrade policy, I probably would have just bought PG, everything else I've got covered by other apps, and not making very much money I don't spend that amount lightly.. not to mention the fact that I ran into a lot of bugs w/ TDS3 that kept it from really being effective on my machine.

    Looking back I remember Wayne saying that there would be some kind of deal, and that if we weren't happy with the deal we could email him and be made happy.. I hope this is what he was referring to...

    Never the less, I really wish we could have had some warning before ending the TDS-3 updates.

    http://www.dyingsun.net/angry-keys.gif
    :D

    I should note that I do respect the decision, I can understand the why, just not the how. Good luck on future endeavors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2005
  10. tutankamon

    tutankamon Registered Member

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    Hi Wayne, tut here, can you advise me on what program I can use to replace TDS3, because I`m running on windows M.E. I can`t use Process Guard. I would welcome your suggestion. ( incidently, do you have "something up your sleeve" as has been suggested?) best of luck in your new endevours.
     
  11. EWT

    EWT Registered Member

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    DiamondCS Management:

    Hello and thank you for the update and info on TDS-3/4. I am a relatively new customer of DiamondCS. In February 2005, I purchased Port Explorer, ProcessGuard, TDS-3 and WormGuard.

    My first purchase was TDS-3, but before I purchased it I realized that it was a very old and somewhat outdated program. However, what convinced me to go ahead and buy the product was the "Free" upgrade to TDS-4. From what I was reading in the forums, TDS-4 was going to be phenominal. After installation of TDS-3, I did not find it to be very useful for my own particular needs (and I am not saying it isn't useful to others).

    I appreciate that management has offered one of the other product lines to its customers in light of their recent decision to shelve the TDS product line, however, I already own all the other DiamondCS products.

    I think most of us have been quite patient with DiamondCS waiting for the release of TDS-4. I am willing to continue with patience, but I feel that your offer to me and perhaps other new customers like me who were counting on the release of TDS-4 as the primary influence to buy TDS-3, should be given the choice to receive the new product (whatever it is) free of charge.

    Please give me fair consideration. Afterall, what better customer could you ask for who has purchased all the DiamondCS products, and I paid full prices (not discounted deals), yeah I was a little stupid for doing that..

    Thank you in advance.
     
  12. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

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    Absolutly agree with that.

    I just wrote a letter to DCS customer support and I hope that every new customer like me ( I also own PG, Wormguard and Port Explorer) should do the same to complain about their unfair offer. :mad:
     
  13. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Ouch! That is going to be a pretty full mailbox tomorrow. :eek:

    I guess this is one time where a "proactive" policy would have saved a lot of resource intensive "scanning" (of email). ;)

    Rich
     
  14. CrownKing82

    CrownKing82 Registered Member

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    I wrote them too. I am not a new customer, and like many, I have purchased all of their products

    If you look at their site and what has gone on for almost three years... That and the fact that they kept selling right up until they pulled the plug... It doesn't take an MBA in marketing to see that hard cold truth. With that said I was one of the people who fell for their scam almost two years ago.

    It doesn't take three years to develop a new release on an existing software package... It was smoke and mirrors nothing more... nothing less. They keep the site up offering the free upgrade even after the announcement. This was not a spur of the moment decision. The free upgrade BS should have been pulled long ago. They knew where is was heading. Keeping the site up to the last minute was by design, not accident. An act of commision, not ommision. These guys had been in business way too long and were too sophisticated in web merchandising to make a mistake like that. It was intentional... anyone who thinks otherwise... well, i got a sweet deal for them on a bridge in Brooklyn...

    In compensation, they offered free software package that most people had already... how generous... If they wanted to do the right thing offer refunds as an option to those who purchased TDS in the last 120 days... After all they stop providing detection updates too.

    They did this without any forewarning... Not exactly an ethical business move. I think on a global basis, given this stunt, their credibility has gone to zero with most, except the die-hards who don't want to see the breach of business ethics committed by this move. They rear ended a lot of people who made recent purchases and didn't offer a refund as an option. That says it all.

    TDS-4 was vaporware for some time. How do I know... I know because of what they did, and how they did it. Anyone who chooses to not see that hard reality is looking at it with miguided cunstomer loyalty. What they, DCS, did it the past has been totally negated by this latest move. They showed where they are in the ethics department and that is where it counts. If you can't deal with your customers ethically.

    There are many people here who defend DiamnodCS's actions and say we should give them a chance to respond. It is after all the weekend. Indeed it is the weekend. They chose Friday to make the annoucment to avoid dealing with the heat... A well know business practice to avoid having to step up to the plate with your customer/politcal base... Hope it blows over during the weekend.

    Wait for what they have to say... Why? They already said it. I for one will never trust them again. As I alluded to above; If they were in the right place they would have given notice, and continued to support TDS-3 for a reasonable period of time. It was the same a quiting a job cold on a Friday afternoon. Just walking out for no good reason and giving no notice... Monday moring comes and those who were counting on you to be there are left with zip... nada...

    BK
     
  15. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    I'd say you will NOT have to wait that long. As someone who's been doing anti-trojans for nine years now (SAME time as Wayne) I don't think ANY of the others will be around in one MORE year, the way things are going. USing DELPHI as your codebase kinda got blown up over a year ago, not that anybody has noticed. Those who have been OUR customers are at least fortunate enough in knowing that OTHER people are paying the bills, those whose INTEREST in our survival is a LONG TERM item to them at least, and they've put money up FRONT to ensure that we DO so. But the scope of what "AT's" need to do have been shifting sands for several years now. Only reason why we don't have to do VERSION upgrades every other week is that BOClean has an ENGINE, and it has separate UPDATES of behavior patterns. The "engine" design has remained sufficiently flexible and open to the "scripting" that the database provides that the past four version updates were simply the result of surprises as to the sheer NUMBER of nasties to be covered and needing to increase that number internally, and it's always been our practice to limit memory consumption to certain "caps" unless there was a NEED to hog more of it.

    But JUST as "file scanning" in 1996 was obsolete then, MEMORY scannng as WE do it is ALSO an item whose time is running out. I hate to consider "security through obscurity" as a cure, but it is the LACK of BOClean being out there as a "freebie" along with our design of "random" based on a SPECIFIC MACHINE SIGNATURE which has further frustrated those who would try to stop us. "Obscurity" plus "obfuscation" makes it MIGHT difficult so far to defeat what we do ... but like ANY code, has to constantly "improve" or SOMEBODY will catch on. Just SMELL the desperation in ZA6, condemned to do really dumb things and fail to detect what's REAL and what's not. BOCLEAN is a trojan as far as ZA6 goes! We've got a KEYLOGGER, or so they false-detect! Hahahahaha.

    Yeah, I'd say MANY shakeups down the road, coming SOON. We, however, plan NOT to be one of them.
     
  16. Frank J.

    Frank J. Guest

    The question: How long will TDS-3 be supportedo_O

    How come it has not been answered??

    Unfortunately, I think the answer is that support is already over. Gone. Bye bye.

    If the Crocodile Hunter was there, this would not have happened.
     
  17. Caratacus

    Caratacus Registered Member

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    I own all DiamondCS products. A free PG or PE is no use to me. So the people who have supported DCS the most have the least compensation, or no compensation, for what is clearly and incontrovertibly a breach of faith.
     
  18. Jaws

    Jaws Registered Member

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    It amazes me that since TDS is no more, that anyone and everyone is talking and speculating about the AT industry.

    Where was everyone when I started the thread, “AT vs AV” in the other anti-trojan software forum. As you know, nothing in the computer industry stands still, it's always in a state of flux. I was just trying to wake people up to the fact that a lot of AT vendors are not going to make it and they should make changes. And I was taken to task by the posters in my thread by trying to refute me. But nobody else wanted to really discuss it and in fact wanted that thread to die.

    It's kind of sad about TDS especially for the people that recently bought it. In my mind, it's hard to believe Wayne woke up Friday and all of a sudden decided we're going to discontinue TDS. I truly believe they knew this would happen for awhile. But they continued to list it for purchase right to the very end. A statement several months ago that TDS would only be adding definitions for the next few months would have gone over much better then the way they handled it.

    As everyone knows, with technology, no matter if you're talking about computers or automobiles, there's going to be winners and losers. Just look at all the car manufacturers that went out of business. You need a good business model and a lot of costumers to make money. I'd be watching out for TH since they're in kind of the same boat that TDS was in, and in a few years who knows, maybe BOClean too if some changes aren't made, not to mention quite a few AV vendors too. I know I'll probably get hammered by Kevin, but who really knows what the future holds.

    Jaws
     
  19. Magnus Mischel

    Magnus Mischel Security Expert

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    First of all, I'd like to thank Wayne for the healthy competition over the years. We may not always have been the best of friends, but I'm sure Wayne would agree that we spurred each other to do better. No hard feelings Wayne, and I wish you the best of luck in the future.

    As for the speculation about TrojanHunter - well there is no need for any TrojanHunter user to be worried. The company is profitable, thank you very much, and I in fact plan to hire two more people this fall. TrojanHunter is here to stay. Just wanted to get that out of the way as there have been worried emails inquiring about TrojanHunter.
     
  20. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

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    That was in fact answerred in the announcement, first line "TDS software line is to be discontinued, effective immediately.". :)
     
  21. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

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    Magnus,

    Thanks for your quick response!:)
     
  22. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

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    It is not just the AT's that are under fire but also the AS, the firewalls and even the AV's. I personally have the feeling that really major players are viewing the security industry with interest.

    I just have a small feeling that a major player such as Google or IAC is one day going to come in and steamroll the mom and pops just like a Walmart's. The Walmart's of the industry might even bankrupt a few of the K-marts (Symantec or McAfee).

    Just as Walmarts has not completely eliminated ALL competition....neither will the big boys come and eliminate every single mom and pop or every single K-mart type company.

    There will be survivors BUT the survivors are only going to be the ones that have some marketable advantage. The advantage can be either technological or by the way it is marketed or who the product is marketed to or even something as mundane as reputation.

    BoClean's advantage is who they carved out for their market (Government and corporation's). If they concentrate on just satisfying their bread and butter they will be around.

    As for other players....well, I just don't know. I think a new factor will have to play into purchasing decisions on software.....Does the company have some marketable advantage to insure that it will even survive?

    I am still looking all over these boards and seeing the "Who is number one?" threads all over. From my point of view these threads don't matter because there may even be some number one's that are going to get knocked out the box as the security industry changes.

    Survivability of the company might even be a bigger factor then who is number one.

    I have a few guesses of companies that might possibly make it. I think one or two of the companies might make it because they have extremely bright people that know the business end as well as the coding BUT right now the surest bet of a survivor is BoClean.

    All the rest of you developers...well, you are going to have to come up with a decidive advantage that can keep you in the market place and you might have to do it soon.

    Witness TDS-3...."Number 1 AT"....knocked out the box!!!

    Sincerely,




    Starrob


     
  23. Jaws

    Jaws Registered Member

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    Hi Magnus,

    Sorry about my speculation and I'm glad you are doing well with your product. I know people that use TH and they have high praise for it.

    If you read my AT vs AV thread, you would know I am on the side of the AT vendors and I've wished them well. But I also felt that they are getting squeezed by the AV vendors and suite providers.

    To me, the discontinuation of TDS should probably not come as that much of a surprise.

    All the best to you,
    Jaws
     
  24. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    It seems to me that covering spyware gives BOClean an advantage. Spruce up the UI, give it a new name (sorry, but I have a couple people I've tried to get to use BOClean, but won't because they can't take it seriously just because of the name & look) and market it as an advanced/industrial strength cleaner that does what the others cannot, cleaning out the important stuff with a minimum of resource usage. I'm sure some of this is coming, and when it does I think it will make a positive difference since the ATs have a decisive advantage over plain spyware scanners. CounterSpy, SpySweeper, etc., all seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, offering something that picks up after even those would, I'm sure, raise some eyebrows by some that don't even know about the ATs.
     
  25. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    No ... I'm going to wait for WAYNE on this one ... but MAGNUS is one of the REASONS why it ain't worth doing TDS anymore. Him, and his buddy Andreas (A2) creating absolutely unreasonable expectations with "WE WILL NEVER do SUBSCRIPTIONS" ... and when the roosters returned, he raised his PRICES.

    I'll remain silent until WAYNE has the opportunity to make a comment on this, Magnus is ONLY here because I've said what I said. If WAYNE chooses to say nothing, then I'll remain silent too. However ... these "newcomers" to whom I refer whose ONLY interest has been "scorched earth competition" and carving up the market is, to MY mind at least, the REASON why Wayne threw in the towel.

    I'll leave it there until WAYNE speaks. :(
     
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