SSD Laptop

Discussion in 'hardware' started by khanyash, Oct 30, 2022.

  1. khanyash

    khanyash Registered Member

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    I purchased an SSD laptop with 512 GB SSD and 8 GB RAM. I'll put Windows 11 Pro on it. I have a few questions as this is my first SSD system.
    1. Should you partition an SSD? (I partition the HDD to keep the system and personal stuff separate.)
    2. Would the system handle the "Trim" function automatically? (I'll install Macrium 8 Home on it.)
     
  2. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

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    1. Is a matter of opinion. I don't. Some do. There is not a physical reason for it to matter. Just preference.
    2. Yes. You need to do nothing.
     
  3. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I would not partition it. Partitioning does NOT really keep things separate - except for user convenience. IMO, what is does is artificially limit your available space. For example, if you make two 256GB partitions, with one for the system, you then only have 256 for other stuff.

    I don't understand your point about Macrium 8 and TRIM. Regardless, W11 knows how to optimally use SSDs just fine. Leave the defaults as is.
     
  4. Gaddster

    Gaddster Registered Member

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    Yes you should. I have always partitioned (even back into the Amiga days) by keeping the operating system and the programs that you use daily on one partition and everything else onto anther partition.

    Plus it'll take so little time making an image of the OS partition instead of keep imaging the same files over and over, which happens if you have everything on a single partition.

    What utter nonsense. It not only keeps things separate but saves a lot of time when it comes to imaging / restoring the OS partition as you're not restoring a large image of the same files (films, tv shows, music, games and other documents) over and over.

    Businesses partition their computers for a reason and it ain't for user convenience.
     
  5. Mr.X

    Mr.X Registered Member

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    I concur.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    What is utter nonsense is you claiming my comment is.

    Just because you might prefer to break up a large drive into smaller pieces, that does NOT mean not doing so is nonsense. In fact, it is not nonsense at all. Everything you said is in a "virtual" environment. But the reality is, all the data is still on one physical drive. If the drive fails, you don't just lose a single partition, you lose it all.
    And it certainly is for convenience - convenience for the IT department - so they can keep users from dinking with the OS, for example. It should be noted that Folders and later Libraries were created so users did not and do not need to partition to keep their files organized.

    I gave a perfect another example of why is it NOT utter nonsense. One can run out of space on a partition while still having lots of free space available on the drive. This can even result in instability, poor performance or worse, if it is the boot partition that runs out of space.

    You can peruse sites like Wilders and see all the threads from users who partitioned their drives only to learn down the road they were running out of space in one partition while still having gobs of gigabytes free in a different partition. Not only is the need to resize partitions a total inconvenience, it is risky too.

    If you want to partition, go ahead. I never said don't do it. But don't be so self-righteous to claim someone else's opinion is "utter nonsense" just because you are of a different mind. That's utter nonsense!

    Let's not forget the OP has only a 512GB drive. That is not very big by today's standards. If he had a 4TB drive for example, partitioning might be a more practical option.

    And what would you have the OP partition the drive to? 128GB for the boot/OS? That's not a lot, not when Windows Update, drivers, the page file, and temporary files can easily consume most of that, leaving little to no essential free space for TRIM, provisioning, and other essential OS operations.

    Two x 256GB? That's fine for the OS, but then that leaves very little for apps and user files.

    @khanyash - With only a 512GB drive, you would be better off to keep it as one big partition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2022
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    khanyash,

    When you install Win11 you will get 4 partitions. So the SSD will be partitioned but I know that's not what you meant. You were referring to having a fifth partition, a data partition, so your OS files are in a different partition from your non OS files.
    I do this with all our computers for backup/restore reasons. Restoring an OS image for software reasons is done far more commonly than restoring an OS image for hardware reasons. I have a low threshold for restoring images and I like my restores to be fast. I don't want to be restoring ten copies of Rambo with every restore. I'd restore over 1000 images for software reasons compared with 1 image restore for HD failure.

    You will have to decide how large your Win11 partition needs to be. But if you get it wrong, just resize the OS and data partitions later. It's easy to do if you understand partitioning software. My Win11 partition is 70 GB in size and it's less than half full. I've never had an OS partition larger than 70 GB but others might prefer much larger OS partitions. One Wilders member uses a 15 GB Win11 partition.

    You have a 512 GB SSD. My test computer has a 256 GB SSD and it contains 2 Win11 partitions, a Win 8.1 partition, 2 Linux partitions, 3 WinPE partitions and 45 GB of Free Space, yet to be used. Data files are in another drive.

    When I was using laptops more frequently I used to keep a spare backup image in the data partition. This enabled the OS partition to be restored if I was away from home and didn't have my external backup HD. I didn't even need a USB flash drive as the restore media was in a separate partition on the SSD.

    The Data partition can be backed up with imaging software or data backup software such as Robocopy, Bvckup 2, etc.
     
  8. Gaddster

    Gaddster Registered Member

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    It is absolute known fact (anyone who works at or runs a computer shop) knows that people who have a single partition (and the same users usually have no backups whatsoever) pays the ultimate price when bad luck strikes than those few percentage of people, who actually separate their files even into another partition on the same drive. At least with those users, some files can be saved by simple drag and drop than a very expensive recovery price that may or not save the day.

    I blame Microsoft for a lot of this as they have always made everyday computer users (as default) store all of their files in libraries on a single partition. I still consider it utter nonsense to have all of your files on a single partition and anyone who recommends a user to store of all of their files on a single partition really does not have the users best interest at heart, which is reality this is terrible advice ie telling someone to put their all their eggs in one basket is bad advice.
     
  9. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I also logically concur and it's a useful if not simply plain prudent and a good wise choice. Been done for years with simplicity and is safe to do so. As mentioned businesses make excellent use of the practice with satisfied results.

    However i have a question myself to that procedure. As i am currently in a marathon session now spanning nearly two weeks running imaging and preserving many 8.1's on this end (updating and refining as well) it has been awhile. Racing against time when Micro ends support the first of next year dog gone it.

    But as a separate data partition if i recall, can't that partitioned sectioned also at a user's discretion be made 'hidden' courtesy the in-built windows feature in Disk Management as either a precautionary measure or simply similar as setting it aside as a lock box of sorts?
     
  10. Hadron

    Hadron Registered Member

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    This is assuming you don't need anything on the operating system SSD or that you've already backed it up.

    When I install a new operating system on a computer, I always delete all the existing partitions using the Windows installer.
    Especially being a laptop with an existing operating system on it, you'll probably see several old partitions when it comes time to install Windows with your bootable media.

    Delete all the partitions with the Windows installer boot media, and allow the Windows installer to create what it needs.
     
  11. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Start with a blank SSD. I think the Win11 installer now requires an OS partition of at least 66 GB. So on the "where do you want to install Win11", I choose create new partition and I make it 70000 MiB. It's your choice of size. The installer will create the other 3 partitions without asking you any questions.
     
  12. Gaddster

    Gaddster Registered Member

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    @EASTER

    For my family members I redirect their user folders into another partition as if anything happens to C: they can quickly restore their OS-Partition image in a very fast time frame (automated using Drive Snapshot) as all what gets restored is Windows and their programs that they use daily. Not gigs upon gigs of data that is in their user folders, which would happen if they only had one partition and used it for everything.

    Or another one, which I came across an absolutely loads of times over the years is people having their photos, films, music, documents etc all over the bloody hard drive (ie one partition). Not even in certain folders but splattered across random folders, which making backing up their files before wiping the Windows partition to be very time consuming (sometimes even longer than actually installing Windows from scratch).............I'm glad I no longer have to deal with that crap.
     
  13. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Basically the same procedure and practice used for years here. Oh there are times when (out of curiosity OR a plan) i follow @Peter2150's wipe and blank disk routine. That applies either/or new install as well as image file restore. I dunno, i guess (if time allows), it's the reassurance that Windows or a Backup Restore doesn't need take on the added chore of overwriting (existing embedded digital fragments) although that's exactly what happens to a blanked (zero wiped) disk (or partition) anyway.

    @Gaddster- Is exactly what is in progress on a few drives here, consuming days recently since some of my 8.1's are time stamped 2021 with files haphazardly scattered all over the place. Thus dealing with as you say 'that crap' takes more time than installing Windows from square one.
     
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Correction. With Win11 22H2 the system drive needs to be 52 GB or larger.
     
  15. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

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    If the drive has no errors, you will not need to pay for recovery, if the drive is partitioned or not. It will be a little more convenient to copy the files if they files are all saved in a separate partition, but that's the only difference.
     
  16. khanyash

    khanyash Registered Member

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    Thank you for your assistance.

    I should have been more specific with my inquiries.
    1. Does partitioning an SSD have an effect on its health? (I looked online and found conflicting information; some claim it'll wear out the SSD faster, while others say it's fine and not a problem.)
    2. I learned that Windows will handle the "Trim" function automatically.
     
  17. pegas

    pegas Registered Member

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    @khanyash
    Take a look at SSD Fresh, for instance. However there're more SSD tools out there that can tweak these disks.
     
  18. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

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    In my opinion there no reason to ever use tools like that.
     
  19. pegas

    pegas Registered Member

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    You can say this about any tweaking apps including those you do use :)
     
  20. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

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    True, but I don't believe there is any benefit to be gained from using this. So personally, I consider it to be a waste of time using it, but if you want to use it, that's fine. having said that, I do use O&O Defrag to defrag my SSDs. It does lead to increased read and write speeds, although probably not enough to noticeable in day to day usage.
     
  21. pegas

    pegas Registered Member

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    SSDs defrag? It's the first thing I disable. SSD doesn't spin up and it reaches all locations on the disk in exactly the same amount of time. Therefore defrag has no effect on disk speed.
     
  22. Hadron

    Hadron Registered Member

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    I think this thread has gone sideways from what the OP was originally asking.
    But carry on. :argh:
     
  23. Gaddster

    Gaddster Registered Member

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    At least you (and other people) on here and other forums know about disk imaging / backups etc. So you could spend time tinkering about, preparing operating systems, organising files etc without a fear of the **** hitting the fan, if anything goes wrong.

    When I used to go to a customers home. I knew they wouldn't have any backups whatsoever, so the freedom of just wiping the OS and starting from scratch wasn't practical at all. Also trying to sort out their current installed Windows just wasn't worth it.......It was past the point of no return (ie way too much crap installed, things popping up all over the place, taking absolutely ages to even open the start menu, hard disk access was 100% all of the time and basically the computer was so unusable / unbearable that the customer finally couldn't stand it and wanted it sorted - only after suffering with it that way for months upon months or longer).

    If the hard drive is still usable. I'd boot to a custom PE. Partition the hard drive into two. Copy over everything I could find that is their personal files onto the second partition. Then reinstall Windows from scratch.

    I can understand why companies over here (England) stopped selling disk imaging software / other back up software in stores years ago as it is clearly more of a money maker to charge fees like £100+ to fix computer issues than to sell them a £30 product like Drive Snapshot that'll last the customer many years.
     
  24. Mr.X

    Mr.X Registered Member

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    This is exactly my vision and method of working with customers' computers @Gaddster .
     
  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    LOL

    I love it when folks believe they are so special and knowledgeable that they represent and can speak for an entire demographic. :rolleyes:

    You can follow the link in my sig to see if I know a little bit about computers, computer repair, and folks who work in, run, or own a computer shop.

    Once again, your scenario means nothing if the drive itself fails. Or Mother Nature takes out the entire computer. Or if a bad guy breaks into the home and steals the computer.

    And once again, the OP has a small 512GB drive so any way it is divided, he ends up with even smaller drives/partitions where either his boot partition may run out of free space, potentially crippling the OS, or his data partition may run out - and quickly too. This means the OP could easily be out of free space on the boot partition, be dead in the water, yet still have 100s of gigabytes free, but unavailable, on the other partition. That is not practical at all!

    And this is an SSD!!!! Why does that matter? For multiple reasons. Below are just 3.

    1. For those worried about SSD lifespans due to their limited number of write cycles (and those with smaller SSDs should be concerned), partitioning decreases the lifespan of SSDs (particularly small SSDs) because TRIM and wear leveling work in each partition and thus have reduced free space in each partition to work in. That means each storage location will be written to more frequently than if one large partition.

    2. Overall disk capacity of the drive is reduced because a chunk of free space must be allocated for TRIM to work in each partition. If a single partition, only one chunk of free space is needed for TRIM to use the entire drive's capacity to work with.

    3. Should the entire drive fail, data recovery becomes more complex when there are more than one partition.​

    Your example about users not having backups is flawed because everyone, regardless if they have one big monster drive with a single partition, partitioned drives, or multiple physical drives should always have a robust backup plan in place. As a shop owner and IT consultant, teaching users to have and use a robust backup plan is

    And you accuse me of spewing utter nonsense? Wow! :rolleyes:

    For the record, I lived in the UK for several years (East Anglia/Newmarket area) and still have many friends and IT colleagues there (and Germany and Portugal, plus Canada and here in the US too). And this comment is simply untrue. Utility type software sales at retail outlets in general worldwide have decreased. Why? Certainly NOT because those outlets would rather charge customers for repair and recovery services. :(

    Utility type software sales have decrease because Amazon is global. Computers, including operating systems have become more reliable. Security has vastly improved greatly reducing malware infestation (and subsequent data corruption). Operating systems have integrated basic but effective backup solutions. "Cloud" services such as Google Drive and MS OneDrive have become more available (and easier to use) and are also taking up market share.

    Other reasons include the fact PC sales have decreased (except in the enthusiast/gaming market) as more and more folks migrated to handheld devices.

    And then there is the simple logistics reason of store shelf space becoming more profitable when used to sell games and productivity software.

    And of course, Acronis Cyber Protect (formally True Image) and EaseUS have dominated the market (in the UK too) in recent years.

    Once again - partitioning is fine for some people, if their drive is large enough to make it practical. If this was a secondary drive for data only, I would have no objection at all. But a single 512GB SSD used for the OS, all the users programs and apps, and all their data too is too small to make it practical to divide into smaller pieces.

    I am NOT saying partitioning in general is wrong - even for SSDs. I am saying it is not right for the OP in this scenario because he only has a single 512GB SSD.


    Of course you do. :rolleyes:
     
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