Intank printers are any good?

Discussion in 'hardware' started by aigle, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
    I will like to get help about a new printer purchase.

    In the past( many years back) I bought cheap HP inkjet printers a couple of times. It was a bad experience. HP ink cartridges were not cheap and as I used to print after weeks or months, cartridges used to dry out and were being wasted.

    Few years back I needed to print a lot of study material so I bought HP LadserJet 1102w Wireless and It worked well but it was monochrome printer as I did not need colored printing( colored printing was costly as well).

    After this I needed colored printing so I bought HP Color LaserJet M277 Wireless. I am really enjoying this printer. Very nice printer with many functions.

    Now the problem starts. I need to print some colored/ monochrome books and study materials for my kids. Color Laserjet M277 cartridges are about to finish so I will need new cartridges for it very soon. THe price of all 4 cartridges for it will be approx 320 $. That seems a lot to me( it is more than the price of printer itself).

    I just saw a printer today. It was Epson L3060 Wireless. It will cost me around 200$. The provided inktanks provided along with printer can print 13000 black pages and 6500 colored pages. That's a lot. Moreover if I need to refill the ink tanks, it will cost me only about 50$. HP also has a similar model- HP Inktank 415 Wireless.

    I never heard of these inktank printers. They seem to be a version of inkjet printers with very cheap printing.

    Does any one has experience with these printers? Is it a good idea to buy it?

    I have couple more questions as well. What will happen if the printer lies there for few months without any printing in between, will the ink dry and has to be refilled? How is their printing quality and speed as compared to laser printer?

    Thanks for any replies.
     
  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    That's common today. And buying aftermarket ink is a gamble. Sometimes they work fine with no problems. Other times, they produce lower quality printouts, and other problems.

    I think Epson came out first with these large capacity ink tank devices for the home consumer. They work. But the problem is, like all inkjet inks, the ink has a shelf life. You have already experienced ink drying with smaller cartridges. So if the printer will sit unused for long periods of time, I don't think they are right for you.

    FTR, I use HP devices. I have tried several aftermarket ink, with mixed results. Genuine ink is actually very high-tech stuff - one reason it is so expensive. The OEM makers work hard to ensure their inks consistently match precise specs, batch after batch.

    The aftermarket suppliers have to reverse-engineer the ink. Each one does it differently, so the ink from each will be slightly different, and slightly different from the OEMs. Plus, consistency from batch to batch is not a certainty. I have seen many cases where print quality and printer problems cleared just by replacing the after market ink with the more expensive OEM genuine ink.

    That said, I have had pretty good luck with aftermarket ink from LDProducts. Pretty good, but not perfect. I've had at least 3 cartridges that my printer reported was faulty or missing and failed to work. That said, LDProducts quickly replaced them for free and those replacements did work. I suspect some of that may be due to the cartridges themselves are used, and perhaps worn even though the ink used to refill them might be fine.
     
  3. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
    I tried aftermarket ink only once and the yield was very low. Also we don't have a lot of aftermarket ink brands avaialble, only few may be.
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Well, there are dozens, if not 100s, and they are all different - which is part of the problem.
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    12,115
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    aigle,

    We have a Canon G2600. I think we will get a few thousand pages out of the tanks but probably not the 5000 advertised. One year old and OK so far.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    You can't go by advertised pages any more than you can go by car makers estimated fuel economy. In fairness, the printer makers don't know what you print, how much of this color or that color you use. I might use a lot more cyan than most users, and you might use a lot more yellow. Then someone else my use mostly magenta or black. My HP has two blacks, a regular black and a "photo" black. But I have no clue how the printer decides which one to use when. I rarely print photos, but the photo black gets consumed too.

    My HP does not report the pages per color. But I can print a status page when I change cartridges, then printer another page when I change them again to get an idea of how long they last.
     
  7. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    I have an EPSON XP520 AIO. Refills nonOEM are insanely cheap. Like a $1 a cartridge. Sometimes it doesn't print well because I hardly use it. Then I go through the EPSON clean nozzle procedure on the printer & it works. But I don't print a lot.

    I like your thinking though figure the replacement cost of ink FIRST then buy a printer.

    Inks dry out so intank would be a disaster for my infrequent needs. No matter the brand. People have raved about BROTHER printers & the aftermarket intank systems for them.

    What I did was look on eBay for the cheapest & most widely used refills. Then I Googled price & capabilities of said printers. Then I Googled specific make & models with various key words ex: EPSON XP520 aftermarket inks or ink etc. Then I'd go down pick a site & read users experiences with aftermarket ink solutions.
     
  8. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
    `````````````````````````
    Do you have any idea about the time frame for that?
    I wonder if printing couple of papers every week will help to avoid this issue. I read something like this on the net.

    Actually inktank printers are looking so tempting to me that I don't know how to pass over them. I think printing by them is much more cheaper than even the traditional inkjet printers.
     
  9. whitedragon551

    whitedragon551 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Posts:
    3,264
    Location:
    USA
    Always go OEM toner if you can. I work for a managed print services company and we have seen an 80% reduction in print quality related issues by going to OEM toner. We see roughly 15 million pages a month from our clients so a 80% is a good bit.
     
  10. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Posts:
    2,976
    I have an Epson L800 printer. If I do not print for more than a month, it needs to perform a head deep-cleaning (it uses a bit less than ~2ml of ink of each color).
     
  11. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
    Thanks. So for a printer is it a very small amount of ink wasted or a significant amount? Thanks
    I don't have any idea really. :)
     
  12. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    Afaik typical color cartridges are around 30ml. Not intank but cartridges.
     
  13. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
    Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated.
     
  14. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Posts:
    11,164
    Location:
    UK / Pakistan
  15. fossewayfella

    fossewayfella Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Midlands UK
    If you buy Epson standard home printers you will not be able to use copy inks them. Epson have been sending out machine updates and within the updates are "blockers" which will make the printer refuse any other ink cartridges. So you will have to buy only Epson inks. This will mean expensive printing if you intend to print a lot of stuff.
    However if you intend to buy a tank printer then you will have to check out the pros and cons of that particular choice before you make a purchase as I have no knowledge of them or cost related inks, etc.
    Why don't you buy a Canon, I have a MG5750, Great spec and currently (in UK) dirt cheap( Approx £50 sterling). Does double sided printing, so half the paper costs. It has five ink cartridges so when one runs out you just have to buy one, and if you do a lot of black and white stuff, there is a double cartridge of black.There are currently no ink blockers in the Canon updates and you could buy loads of printers and inks for what you will pay for a tank type printer. I can send you my UK ink supplier if you want, he has been in the inks trade for years. Don't know if he ships though.

    Hope this helps.- fosseway
     
  16. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    I try to print a couple pages a week, even if test pages, just to keep the jets and print heads moist. Seems to work with my printer.
    I wish! I note my HP takes HP 564 cartridges. It comes in two sizes, 564 and 564XL. The 564 contains 7.5mL of ink for a guestimated 250 pages, and the 564XL contains just 14mL for a guestimated 550 pages.
    Note that all printer makers have been accused of such tactics over the years. It is generally considered illegal, and therefore, the lockout feature can be disabled - though you may have to dig around in the menu system to find it. On my HP, for example, when it detects a non-genuine HP cartridge, it yells at me with all sorts of warnings of impending doom, but then lets me press an icon and continue.

    https://www.techwalla.com/articles/how-to-make-an-epson-printer-recognize-clone-cartridges
     
  17. __Nikopol

    __Nikopol Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Posts:
    630
    Location:
    Germany
    Inkjet printers are a scam however you look at it. Cartridges cost 0.23$ to make. 20.000% profit or whatever! (youtube /watch?v=AHX6tHdQGiQ)
    I'd say just go with the Epson L3060 Wireless you mentioned. That one sounds like it is worth money. Even though it is ink
     
  18. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    The printers aren't. It is the consumables (ink) that are.
     
  19. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    I once heard printer ink as sold by HP is more costly than gold. Because HP ink sells for the equivalent of $5,000 a gallon. Before HP split up their business ink sales alone accounted for 40% of yearly profits.
     
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Well, that's clearly nonsense.

    There are ~14.583 troy ounces in a pound. One gallon of gold weighs 160.92lbs. One ounce of gold is > $1200.

    14.583 x 160.92 x 1200 = $2,816,035.63 per gallon of gold.

    So while HP ink is clearly outrageously expensive, it is cheap compared to the price of gold.

    That said, ink jet ink is very high tech sophisticated stuff. To be propelled through the jets in precise droplet sizes, consistently, page after page is very tricky. Mixing prime colors to consistently achieve precise colors is very tricky. To ensure the way the ink spreads and is absorbed (or doesn't spread or get absorbed) on different types and quality of paper in a very precise manner is very tricky. To ensure the pigments and the ink is consistent batch after batch, year after year, and across all the colors, is very tricky. And there are other ink characteristics that make producing the ink expensive.

    Because there are many professions that require precise color characteristics with their printouts (photography, graphics design, CAD/CAE, architecture, publishing, and no doubt many more I never thought of) ink technologies is a high tech (thus expensive) science on its own.

    And the only way HP, Epson, Canon, Brother, Lexmark, Fuji/Xerox, Lenovo, Oki, Ricoh, Samsung and a host of other printer and copier makers can ensure the printouts day after day, year after year are consistently identical from day one, they have to control what ink (and toner) is used. They cannot do that with aftermarket ink and toner - unless they sell their secret formulas and manufacturing techniques. And that ain't gonna happen any more than Coca-Cola will release the formula for Coke to the public domain.

    Another problem is the competition for the printer hardware itself is fierce. So the printer makers often take a loss on their printers (at least on the budget entry level models) in the hopes of making up for it with ink. This is very similar to the loss leader strategies grocery and other stores do to get shoppers in store.

    Game console makers do the same thing. There is very little, if any, profit margins on the game consoles. The hope is buyers will spend $1000s on games and accessories - and many do.

    Movie theater operators don't want you to come in and watch the movie. They want you to come in and buy the popcorn, candy and sodas.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.