For ordinary people, Qubes offers no advantage whatsoever, nor does it prevent 'insert your credentials here' phishing. Mrk
Depends on your definition of "ordinary people". How could it "prevent 'insert your credentials here' phishing."? "no advantage whatsoever" It's nice to see that some things stay the same no matter what. Your attitude hasn't changed one bit over the years. All these threads in this forum and you'll always know without asking what Mrk thinks about them: "Don't bother...you'll be fine..." I am guessing you've never bothered trying it out yourself, have you? ;-)
I have tested it. And I see no practical value. It's like walking around with a kevlar vest. The chance of you getting shot are quite low, but the chafing on your shoulders is fierce. The fact you love security and enjoy it is not mutually exclusive with my approach. Ordinary people are people who have no idea what Linux is, let alone all the technobabble we use. Mrk
Paranoia about security is counter-productive. The greatest weapon against malware isn't software; its the human mind. People will be secure in computing tasks with common sense about where and what to download on the Internet. If an OS becomes too complex to use, it defeats the point of having it in the first place.
Well, sorry I have to elaborate on this topic. Most people I know are using Windows because it has always been pre-installed. Like myself, they grew up with it. In the past years many of these people have had problems with viruses, Trojan horses and even credit card fraud because of it. This has caused them hours of trying to rescue data, „cleaning Windows“, investing money into anti-virus software, paying experts and spending a lot of money on the OS and office programmes as well. Yes, I do think almost any Linux distro can be an alternative to Windows. At least for „ordinary people“ ;-) I think they would safe money and could still use their Windows for gaming or some programmes but would be safer overall. And yes, I encourage people to try it out. I don‘t love security per se, it‘s just a topic I am interested in and one that I think is important and very complex. I think, nowadays it is a necessity to at least engage in the basics. I am also worried about politics regarding the Internet (net neutrality, censorship, privacy, security). I strongly oppose the extreme surveillance that is taking away and endangering freedoms and rights. Data mining is not just being used for advertising but also for influencing or even threatening people. This has nothing to do with Windows or Linux per se but with our attitude towards security & privacy. I hope that more people would care and oppose these changes being made but the threats are not palpable. I do think that the careless handling of personal information and the way we handle information/news in general is somewhat connected. I‘d love for the legislation to protect people online but unfortunately the opposite is true. Qubes might feel like a kevlar vest at first but that feeling might vanish pretty fast. You need to give it some time to get used to the different approach. It is fascinating to see older people that are new to computers getting used to operating systems. It makes almost no difference whether they are learning to use Windows or Linux. They just have to get used to it. What makes Qubes feeling so heavy on the shoulders? The hard part is choosing the hardware because Qubes doesn‘t support that many systems. Apart from that you are good to go when selecting the suggested installation. For me, the biggest advantage is the compartmentalization. Splitting or prioritizing your activities, being able to be online in one app and offline in another while both apps not being connected is a huge advantage. Using disposable apps while sailing unknown waters is a plus as well. It is very easy to backup all or single apps. It is easier and faster than backing up other systems, I think. You don‘t have to use all advanced features. The basic installation should be enough. Of course you have to get used to the fact that things are different but I wouldn't say that it has "no advantages whatsoever". It is for advanced users or those of us wanting to try out something different/new. I guess the overall problem is the lack of feeling the need to change something, be it the way one uses the internet (of things) or about the way the governments/enterprises use it/you.
The main problem with QubesOS is all the added security is overkill for most people. The last thing most people want to do is spend time configuring their OS. Windows has it figured out - have Windows secure by design out of the box and let people run it as they see fit. Balance between security and ease of use will always be with erring on the side of ease of use. Which is what most people want - whether that's on Windows or on Linux.
I do think that legislation should protect people online, regardless of the system one uses. It does not work at all. Privacy and security does not matter because of the prospects of data mining. A few governments try to constrain the big players but all in all it is getting ridiculous.
Regardless of your thoughts on this subject you have to agree that the kevlar vest comment was hilarious!
Contrary to your quote - M$ does not "has it figured out" as Windows is NOT secure by design out of the box. From the start of M$, Windows was eminently INsecure from being designed without any security in mind, to wit "Swiss Cheese Security". Only due to M$ research have they been able to recently turn that awful trend around and redirected their efforts more toward providing basic security. At least now there is a better baseline to provide security. -- Tom
I agree with Mark on this one. Normal user don't care all these excessive security. That's why Windows still dominates.
Mrk pointed out there is a fine line between security and usability. You want to lock down your PC but not to the point where you can't be productive on it. In Windows, the default settings are sufficient for most users.
Being a virtual machine user for years (VMWare Workstation 4,5,6 then VirtualBox) and a *nix user for a few years (ok, decades), I have no problems with the "complexity" of Qubes. I like the concept of being able to separate my tasks where it takes a bit of effort to transfer a file from one to the other. One VM for financial things. One for e-mails. One for general internet access. Disposables for risky internet access. Built in whonix-gw/ws if I so desire. Even the ability to stand up a Windblows VM if needed...I have XP (with registry hack for security updates until June 2019) and 7 (client required Junos VPN) running. It is not for everyone. My machine is also running an open source BIOS and has the ME disabled, so it is that much more secure. The concept of security by isolation has merit. I certainly don't consider myself a "normal user" either. Viruses are developed with the "normal user" in mind. I doubt Qubes will garner a huge market chunk, but I like it.
