UPS Question

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Rico, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Thanks! Very helpful information.
     
  2. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I agree with everything trott3r said but will add my 3 cents.

    The reason they want you to fully charge the batteries first is to make sure they will support your system from the start. Like all batteries, they will loose charge just sitting on the store or warehouse shelf. The UPS maker has no clue how long they will be in inventory before the consumer gets them, so that is just routine language. They don't want you setting it up and 2 minutes later get a power outage the UPS cannot yet support, then send the UPS back with a nasty letter telling them you and all your friends will never buy their products again.

    Note a UPS will support your equipment even without any monitoring. And if you never have extended and unattended power outages (when your computer is running but you are away for longer than the battery's run time), that's fine. But never is a long time. Without monitoring, when the batteries run down, the UPS simply kills power to your equipment. And that can result in data loss, and potentially a corrupted boot drive. So it is always best to have some sort of monitoring in place to ensure a "graceful" shutdown BEFORE the batteries run down completely.

    To monitor the UPS, you do need to use the interconnecting data cable from the UPS to a USB port. And yes, Windows can provide rudimentary monitoring, but it is pretty much a pain with PCs because it makes you set up your PC more or less like a notebook. And because it is designed to work with every UPS (that has the necessary interconnecting cable), it is pretty generic. To get more specific (though still pretty generic), you have to install specific drivers from the maker.

    I say if you have to install specific drivers to see more information, use the software that came with it to take full advantage of the all the monitoring and configuration features it provides. I have not used the NetGuard software for your UPS but other UPS software provides many useful features and information. You can run a self test, schedule self-tests, calculate energy costs, send logs to your email (nice!), see how much run time is left, disable the annoying alarms via a schedule (like throughout the night), adjust sensitivity and voltage thresholds - important if you have lots of minor fluctuations.

    Most importantly, through the software you tell it when to "gracefully" start saving open documents, shutdown Windows, then power off the computer BEFORE the batteries run down completely. This last feature makes the included software all worthwhile, IMO.

    Of course, with a nice LCD panel like yours has, much of the status information can be obtained from there. But you typically cannot change any settings. You need the software from that. So I recommend you visit your UPS maker's site and download the latest version from there (the CD version if provided with your UPS maybe outdated). And, like all software, carefully install the program using the custom install option (in case it wants to install any unwanted toolbars or search engines). I recommend you uncheck any option to automatically look for software updates. You don't need yet another update service running 24/7. This option is typically provided during installation, or via an options menu once installed. Updates are rare and you can easily check manually.

    Beyond that, kudos to you for putting your computer on a good UPS. IMO, EVERY computer should be on a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). Surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords that do nothing (but maybe, if lucky, kill power) for excessive surges and spikes, and absolutely nothing for sags (opposite of surges), dips (opposite of spikes) or brownouts (long duration sags). So understand, it is not the battery backup that is the primary advantage to having a good UPS with AVR. It is the AVR. IMO, they should be called "Automatic Voltage Regulators with Battery Backup"! ;)
     
  3. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Batteries last 3-8 years, depending on quality and usage patterns. Some UPS are very picky, and some have fixed maximum lifetimes.
     
  4. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I am not saying they don't exist, just that I have never seen any with fixed maximum lifetimes. Frankly, I don't see how that is even possible without building in code that destroys or disables the battery after X amount of time. As you correctly noted, usage patterns affects the lifespans, so I don't see the practicality of that other than to rip off the consumer. And I think that would be illegal - at least in most jurisdictions. I'm just saying.

    I know APC, Tripp Lite, Belkin, and Cyberpower UPS don't do that. And I sure would avoid any maker who does that. Got a link to an maker that does?

    My personal experience where I live (in Tornado Alley) is they last 3 - 5 years. And FTR, I NEVER buy replacements from the UPS maker as they are always outrageously priced. I always shop around at the various on-line battery marts to see who has the best deal that day. Prices and deals change often. Today the prices may go up, but shipping is free. Tomorrow the prices go down but you pay shipping. So factor in shipping costs when comparing prices.
     
  5. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    It was an enterprise UPS. I don't recall the brand.
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Well, I've used several rack and very large enterprise UPS too. Even whole facility UPS where we had to regularly test the specific gravity of the each cell. And again, never seen one that had specified life spans. That said, most UPS batteries are SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries which are basically the same as car batteries. And they are typically sold as X number of month batteries that magically do a good job of failing shortly after the warranty expires. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Thanks for the detailed reply, Bill.
    I really have no need for all the bells and whistles that their software may provide. The reason I bought the UPS is to give me time to "gracefully" shut my system down when I lose power, not to allow me to keep using the machine without power. I will be shutting my systems down when unattended so don't really need monitoring software, except I guess that as the battery reaches end of life the software may tell me to search for a replacement.

    I won't have internet access when the power drops so there is no real need to use the PC in that case. I could power my modem and router with the UPS but a) I would need to use a power board because my UPS only has three sockets for battery backup and they are already used, b) would need to use an extension cord for to reach the modem and router.

    All that said, I could image my machine and install the software as a trial. If I don't like it or find I won't use it Macrium will have my machine back in its current state quick smart.
     
  8. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Oh? Why not? I have my modem, wireless router and a 4-port Ethernet switch connected to my UPS just to keep my network alive during a power outage. Then I can still access the Internet with other devices (as long as their batteries hold up). In fact, if my computer and monitors are immediately powered off after an outage, my network will stay alive for at least 4 hours. If you have VoIP phone service, keeping the network alive is a good thing.

    Yes, I too have to use an extension cord for the battery side, but that's hardly a problem. As long as they are not surge and spike protectors, no problem. They don't even have to be heavy duty. And they certainly are not budget busters either.
     
  9. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Well:
    1. TV = 70 W
    2. PVR (or DVR in the US) =40 W
    3. PC PSU = 180 W
    4. AV Receiver = 550 W
    Of course those wattages are rated max and I am unlikely to be maxing my devices out but still. My landline still runs on the copper network so no VoIP.
    I've never seen anything like that in Australia rated for 240 V AC.
     
  10. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Especially the receiver. It takes a steady tone at maximum gain (amplification) in all channels at once to max out a receiver. And that will never happen with music or TV/movie soundtrack. "But still", as you say, you need to account for maximum potential loads.

    Took me about 10 seconds with Google. http://www.yunhuanelectric.com/Clkj...-LPA05FS-General-Purpose-Power-Multiplier.jpg
     
  11. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    This is probably a silly question but that's me, so I'll ask it anyway. Do you need to turn the power off to the UPS periodically to 'condition' the battery?
     
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    The silly questions are the ones not asked.

    These are SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries - basically the same type as your car batteries. SLA batteries don't suffer from the "memory effect" problems other battery technologies suffer from so they do not need periodic "deep cycling" or "conditioning" as nickel–cadmium battery (NiCad), Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH), or to some extent Lithium-ion (li-Ion) batteries do. In fact, SLA batteries like to be "topped" off all the time. So no, I never "pull the plug" to the UPS to fully discharge. They don't need it.
     
  13. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Cool! Thank you, Sir.
     
  14. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    I was enlisted. Just Bill, or Sarge is fine! ;)
     
  15. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Just to verify, so it's OK to use a standard power board with no surge / noise protection after the UPS?
     
  16. illumination

    illumination Guest

    That was a nice way to put it instead of the old "don't call me sir, I work for a living"... ;):isay:
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Well, when you say power board, if you mean something like this, then yes you can as long as it does NOT contain any surge and spike protection. But frankly, I cannot remember seeing any basic power centers that don't have surge and spike protection.

    If your concern is wasting power, I really would not worry about it. When computer devices these days go to "sleep" they really consume very little power. Your TV probably consumes more when you are asleep. And TV cable boxes are real power hogs even in standby. And note most UPS let you kill all output power either through a switch in front, or a master switch in back.

    Lastly, flipping a master power switch to suddenly power on all connected devices at once can actually cause a pretty big surge followed by a decent size sag until power stabilizes. These generally are not excessive, but still, in my mind, it kinda defeats one of the main purposes for having your components connected to a decent UPS with AVR in the first place. So being a bit anal about clean power, I would probably flip each of those switches (Master, then Aux 2, Aux1, Printer, Monitor, Computer) one at a time anyway - which would defeat the purpose of the box. :rolleyes:
    lol Well, my dad was a commissioned officer having graduated West Point (on D-Day, no less) as one of the first cadets designated for the "Army Air Force" since day one (the US Air Force was not created until 1947), and he worked his butt off for the next 21 years he was in (Korea, the Cold War, etc.), so I don't use that saying - even though in my time, I met many who that does apply to. ;)
     
  18. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Bill, I mean like this:

    Basic Power Board.PNG
    I think you've answered my question anyway. I really just needed an extra outlet as my unit only has three UPS outlets and three surge protected outlets.

    Thanks.
     
  19. IvoShoen

    IvoShoen Registered Member

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  20. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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  21. IvoShoen

    IvoShoen Registered Member

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    :)
     
  22. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Yeah, that looks fine. For the record, I have connected to my UPS one of these. I really like them because first, they are only 18 inches long. And second, I don't have to worry about multiple large AC to DC power blocks fitting. So this "spider" extension cord lets me connect the power supplies for my router, modem and 4-port switch to the battery side of my UPS too, along with my computer and both monitors. :)

    I am sure you can find something similar for any socket configuration.
     
  23. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    This UPS finally earned its keep. It's quite warm here today ( 38C +) so my guess is there are a few air-cons running. My power has been surprisingly stable since I bought the UPS but today the power dropped for maybe a second at most. It couldn't have been long because my router (not connected) didn't restart but my air-con wasn't happy (not connected) and my UPS beeped a few times. My guess is that it potentially saved my PC and PVR as we call them (or DVR in the US) from a corruption event.

    I'm glad I've spent the money. :)
     
  24. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

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    Thanks for the update! :)
     
  25. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Bill,

    While I can't confirm it, I suspect the UPS software for my device runs Java Runtime, mainly because of this posted review for a lower spec'ed machine mentions running JavaScript.

    https://www.productreview.com.au/p/powershield-defender-psd650.html

    The sad thing is the rep from PowerShield asks what version of JavaScript the OP is running. :doubt:

    Does the built in Windows utility offer the shutdown at x% of battery life feature? And what about other connected devices?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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