Relaunch XP ?

Well, okay "everyone" is impossible to please. And I doubt enough people would be interested in DOS interfaces to make it plausible to go through with that undertaking. But if people were given the option to use either a OS with an XP feel, with modern security. Or a 7/8 feel, I think it would at least make 95+% of their customer base happy. And they'd be able to actively market/sell 2 different OS's instead of just 1, which would make them happy too. And people using their hand-held devices could use an 8 type GUI.

I guess saying "everyone would be happy" was my flaw. That of course is impossible. But almost everybody would be. I didn't expect you to go DOS on me here. Cheap tactic to try to invalidate the bigger picture of my proposal which is otherwise quite sound. You probably represent the 1% there.

And I have to disagree with point 2... it would indeed sell like hot cakes. XP is so beloved that is almost inevitable.

 

Yeah forgot about that one, considering MS was the first to sign up to NSA spying there is no way in hell I would trust MS with a online account just to use Windows

 

I love aero, much prefer the taskbar in Win7 to Win8, Win7 was the first OS that I didn't use 3rd party theme apps to make it look better as I think MS got the looks in Win7 perfect.

Agree about Linux though, much easier to change the look of the OS

 

The most basic of truths in all of these discussions about computer security is that NONE of us know if our install- regardless of the operating system and associated software has been and continues to be compromised.

How do you know that some new and totally undetectable form of Bot isn't already residing somewhere in the operating system on your computer, ready to steal data and more ?

It is an unavoidable fact that the most likely scenario for the above is an attack originating from a government agency or someone sponsored by a government. We are essentially powerless to prevent an attack from an entity that has the power to force Microsoft, Apple, Red Hat, or anyone else to install secret back doors in their operating system software. Who is going to say 'no' to the CIA, NSA, NRO, Mossad, KGB, or the security services of China ?
The same holds true for security software vendors and hardware manufacturers. None of us can possibly be 100% certain that product updates don't also include malicious code. Governments and well-funded criminal organizations (some would say those are the same) have the resources to design and deliver the malicious code to anyone at any time and as often as they wish- even, as we know, to other governments.

My point is that the individual choice regarding which operating system will be used should be one OF personal choice- not perceived security.

All are exploitable. Get used to it !

 

I do know that both my OS and software are not compromised by an attacker. I have no way of knowing if any of them are not backdoored by design, but from my experience, I would say that there is a high probability that they are not.

Agreed on this one.

 

What someone else thinks of what another uses or has is of zero importance. I'd expect to hear this kind of conformist peer pressure from grade school children. Not here.

People have different definitions of what constitutes an upgrade or an improvement. Bringing DOS into the discussion as a derogatory term is a prime example. If the NT systems had an equivalent to DOS, a command line that had full access to the entire file system with no interference from Windows, detecting and removing rootkits would be easy. I'm not suggesting that Windows should still boot from DOS or an equivalent, but if it came with with it, servicing and maintenance would have been so much easier. In one way, DOS was a liability. In another, it was a valuable asset. Microsoft could have included an equivalent with the NT systems, separate from Windows and not required by Windows. That would have been an upgrade all the way around. Instead it becomes a tradeoff. Windows loses one of its best tools.

That's the problem with "upgrades" and updating. Improvements in one area are offset by liabilities and loss of control in others. There's no technical reason it has to be that way, but that's the choices we're given. Metro is a good example. We weren't given a choice. The current versions of Windows are supposed to be more secure than their predecessors. With that "improved security" comes extensive monitoring and recording of user activities. An improvement in one area accompanied by a liability in another. An upgrade to some. A liability to others.

wtsinnc
I completely agree with your assessment. It is quite possible that current operating systems and peripheral hardware like routers, firewalls and modems are either backdoored or deliberately weakened in a way that makes it easy to add one. IMO, the greater threat to users is how invasive operating systems have become to user privacy. One only has to look at the Privazer application to get an idea of how much Windows records and how difficult it is to remove. I'm willing to bet that there's much more that Privazer doesn't find. This has been a trend with Windows. Each new version logs more than the last. Most of these records are never needed by the OS or the user. Applications that do this are called spyware. When XP was young, many of us 9X users viewed it as spyware and refused to "upgrade". I have no use for an OS that's designed to record my every move, no matter how secure it's claimed to be. At one time I was obsessed with security. To a point I still am, but my definition of security has changed. After about 8 years of watching malware and zero day exploits bounce off of my "insecure and obsolete" system, I've concluded that web bourne malware is not the primary threat. Protecting your privacy and the right to not have your every activity monitored or called in is much more difficult than defending against malicious code. IMO, protecting your privacy is impossible when the operating system itself is hostile to the concept. That's the primary reason that I stay on this "insecure and obsolete" operating system. From a privacy perspective, it's the more secure option.

 

FYI - you can update Windows Netbook, or Win8.1 machines without having an MS account. All you do is click 'create account', then at the bottom there is a line of clickable text that says 'skip creating account'. I've never registered a single thing with Microsoft, so I know it's possible. Even Office 2010 says 'continue online', and asks for registration, however there is a 'skip' button in that as well. One nice thing about 8.1 as well. During installation you click 'customize installation', and you literally get 3 pages of logging/monitoring/dialhome activity it allows you to turn off. This is the first operating system to give you the option - during installation, to disable most of that nonsense.

BUT if you really want to see the level of logging in these operating systems, Windows XP, 7 and 8.1 included. Install CCleaner and run it.. Run it again if you want. Then install CCenhancer, click the new options it adds to CCleaner, and run it again.

http://singularlabs.com/software/ccenhancer/

What you will find is, literally hundreds of megs of logs, and in some cases, GIGS of logs and extra crap. Even on an XP machine you thought was generally clean, and private. But logging isn't exclusive to MS. As any Linux buff knows, Distros are pretty heavy on the logging.

 

Taking this further. A 100% lockdown of every aspect of any modern OS, and hardware is probably near impossible. That's a position I have taken after extensive security knowledge, and real experience in this area. I just do not think it is entirely possible in every respect. You can come close, but even close isn't 100%. This is why many folks have 'air transfer' computers, that have never been connected directly to the internet.

With this opinion, I take the next logical step after 'sufficiently' locking modern hardware and OS's down.. That's protection of individual assets. I believe we are at the stage where we cannot fully guarantee security of any hardware, much less operating system software. So the logical response is to move to asset protection. What I mean is - securing assets that are crucial. You do this by encryption, and if necessary layered encryption, and tailored protection matrix solutions. That way, even with the inability to fully lock anything modern down, you have locked down the assets. That means directory/file encryption, encryption of databases, encryption of datastreams, and other methods.

In using this method, you are ensuring compromised hardware or operating systems don't fully compromise the 'important' aspects.. Sure they may be able to sniff your activity playing World of Warcraft, but are they going to get your passwords, email databases, or cloud traffic? Not likely. So I may use a 4096-Bit encrypted cloud storage system, but you can get the files I put on it are also encrypted. So while that cloud system MAY get compromised, someone will have to fish through a couple layers of additional encryption to compromise what is on it.

That's really how you play the security game my friend. You cannot protect everything, all of the time. But what is really important - you make sure to protect.

 

Speaking of CCenhancer.

First picture is CCleaner running stock, with all options checked. Second picture is running CCleaner with CCEnhancer, and roughly 98% of the options checked. It found another 384MB of log files and other crap. Illustrating that even with most cleaning programs, there are still logs.

384MB is pretty small.. I've cleaned XP and Win7 machines with 3-4GIGS of logs after just a few days.

 

Proof of that? Why did Windows 7 sell like hot cakes and win over the majority of XP users? If it was only because of underlying updates Vista and 8 would've done much better.

@noone_particular: "Derogatory term" in what way?

 

Event logging are more useful for system admins and were meant for troubleshooting purposes. It can be disabled. Pagefile and hibernation too. Access to full system - run as admin/system. Go ahead and mess with access control list/entries and permissions. Customer Experience Improvement Program can be disabled. You even have a built-in firewall to block outbound. On certain editions, there's built-in encryption (BitLocker; in which Neils Ferguson was part of)

If one doesn't trust MS, the answer is not going back to older less secure MS systems. Linux would fit better and if truly concerned over anything proprietary, then a fully free distro (so-called GNU approved) with no proprietary blobs. But we digress here.

 

This is a reply to DoctorPC's last post in this thread before it got moved here.

It would be one thing if the latest and greatest was the greatest for the majority of people, but in reality it's what I would call trendy. A whole lot of trendy new stuff gets developed all the time, some is good and some is useless junk. It takes time for the market to decide which is which. It's advertising's job to persuade people they need the latest, whether or not it's the greatest, and whether they actually need it or not.

I don't think it takes a luddite mentality to understand the benefits of patience, it's just good common sense. If somebody would make something that most people could understand and it could be demonstrated that it's a lot better, then yeah I think you'd see people flock to it. But in my opinion, the alternatives to XP, while being okay in some cases, just aren't inspiring enough to move the masses willingly.

 

CCleaner doesn't clean only logs, but other things as well (as your screenshots show). The fact that you might have cleaned 4 GB of Temp files, for instance, does not mean that they are logs.

 

allizomeniz: agreed

 

Windows XP support cutoff poses data breach risk for retailers

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/020414-windows-xp-support-cutoff-poses-278386.html

 

Data breaches involving POS devices are daily news items, in spite of Microsoft's support for these devices. Their support isn't helping now. A lack of it won't make any difference. A recent report compiled from data from the National Vulnerability Database shows that Microsofts "more secure" operating systems (Vista, 7, 8 ) are faring no better against severe and critical vulnerabilities than its "insecure" predecessors.

 

MS should release Win 9 with optional Luna, Classic and Aero Themes. It would be easy earned money for MS

 

You are partially right and I partially agree. Sure all software is exploitable and every computer can be hacked in one way or the other. But it also doesnt mean we should use Windows/Mac/Chrome OSs which basically are guaranteed to bend over for the NSA. You can say they dont have a choice but I disagree, Lavabit made their choice and they could too. Really it doesnt come down to which software is exploitable or not but how easilly it gets exploited and wheather you are willing to financially support corporation that unquestionably works with the gov't that violates its own constitution. For me, I became disguisted and decided to support open source software and when I have my buisness one day, I will do the same unless absolutely forced to use Windows. And then even then I will push LO instead of MS Office. Not because of it being more secure but out of pure ideology.

 

I'd upgrade if I could customize Windows the way I want. I don't want the useless table Modern UI on my PC desktop.

 

I agree. They could give Windows 9 the following themes:

• Windows 95
• Windows 98
• Windows 2000
• Windows Vista
• Windows XP
• Windows 7
• Windows 8

How hard would it be to do? I just sometimes think there is a bunch of morons up there at Microsoft.

 

What? No Windows ME theme? Actually, if they would just make an interface that doesn't look like one made in a grade school arts and crafts class.....

 

hey i grew up on 8086 dos batch sys win 3.1

i finally had a rock solid os after all the previous screw ups from MS

XP pro there is no come back

they cut updates who cares 90 percent of my xp years i never updated!!

but what was and always will be the death of xp is these new so called computers

and joke that they call a note book where the hell is the usb cd and other crap gone?

these pcs are in bed with Microsoft and like this one im on it will only run 7 64 bit

and changes often i first got it it ran the other cant remember

but most all my software is not 64 bit its in that other program file folder

with that software i had faster time on the old non 64

and 64 threw out some stuff yea it may be as old as me but worked all other os

i have a pent 4 hp pavilion laptop im going to max the ram and hard drive

and then this pile can be the wifes i will go back to xp and a real laptop

because i started on the first pc released i quit at pent 4 win xp

it was a fork stay or relearn everything i spent my life learning

i stayed and only regret staying when i have to use this new crap

yea multi core is sweet and allot faster but im not a gamer or hard user

single core pent 4 works fine so make your own xp comeback or learn all the new

o and the comment on with win 7 8 security omg to funny 7 is the first time my system got trashed security up the butt but it wouldn't work went to devices all the drivers whipped and reboot it wouldn't start had to wipe the sys loose all my unbacked data and start over(and no boot disks repair cds important file transfer tried them all whatever hit destroyed it!!)

20 or more years never a hit ping or problem then 7 bam nailed through virus firewall spyware malware i had it all firefox and nope didnt matter i got nailed worse than i seen some cust pcs when i used to repair pcs

so dont give me the Microsoft BS security better all that bull i was safe and secure and scanned weekly xp now 7 scan daily sometimes more i only get caught once now i over do the hell out of it hows that progress no that regression

 

why wait for Microsoft?

just get WindowsBlinds.
10$.

problem solved.

if you can't afford 10$ UxStyle is free.

 

Im using 8.1 with Startisback, UXTheme Multi-Patcher, Ribbon Disabler and a theme from Deviantart.
Windows looks beautiful, is stable and fast

 

What a load of FUD.
They really should do some fact checking.

XP Embedded has extended support until 2016

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecy...=PN&alpha=WINDOWS XP EMBEDDED&Filter=FilterNO