Does this look familiar?

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by KaneComputing, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Stapp do use an AV? It could interfere with the indexing speed.
    Also try to modify windows search index for the files/folders; or even to disable it altogether.

    Panagiotis
     
  2. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    On the machine I am using IR on I have ESET av v7. I tried turning it off but it didn't seem to make any difference. My system is not defragmented.

    I tried making a new snapshot called test (on local disk) so I could compare the time it took to make the primary. It took 102 minutes for a 35g snapshot.

    I shall look into the search indexing situation.

    Thanks.
     
  3. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Re: Snapshots on protected volume... SSD space problems?

    Thanks, Pete! Since you describe your "stripped down" system configuration as one only to be used for ARCHIVE restoration, it sounds like this process is akin to a standard image restore (from baseline on in both TIME and SIZE) but instead, creating a snapshot from the archive rather then re-imaging the system. At that point you would BOOT into the newly created snapshot to return to that particular system configuration.

    Does the above characterize the process correctly?
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Re: Snapshots on protected volume... SSD space problems?

    Not Quite.

    I have a primary snapshot which is my full c: drive.
    The secondary is very stripped down.

    So like today. Wanted to install software I am not sure I wanted to keep.

    So I did a copy/update and refreshed my archive.

    Then if I want to keep it I simply refresh the archive.
    If I want it gone, I boot to the secondary, and restore the archive, which just refreshes the Primary. No need to create a new primary
    THen just boot back to the Primary

    I also have a second archive of the Primary Snapshot with a different configuration. I can restore that one to refresh the Primary with a different configuration.

    Some of the extreme things I've done in the past include:

    a) Updating a XP system to Vista, and then rolling it back to XP simply by restoring the archive. Not the most efficient but it worked.

    b) Reformatting drive and doing a fresh install of windows. Then installed the old FDISR. Restored my Secondary archive to a secondary snapshot, booted to it, and the restored my Primary Archive to update my Primary Snapshot. Again lengthy but worked flawlessly. Gives another recovery approach.

    Pete
     
  5. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Yup, this IR program is insanely flexible, folks will use it in many different ways. I do much like Peter, my primary and a VERY stripped down secondary containing only Windows itself, IR, and one security program. I started doing it like this once I acquired a SSD, my old system had many bootable snapshots. I have many, many archives among many different drives. Once I hosed my system so badly that I lost the original FD and everything, and had to restore a one-year old ShadowProtect image. But that old image had FD installed! Once I recovered my old system, I simply used my last FD archive to bring my system completely up to date. IR is a perfect compliment to a good imaging program and vice versa.

    Acadia
     
  6. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Pete, Acadia... thanks for your insight. One last question...

    Is "refreshing" the PRIMARY from an archive similar (not in mechanism but in time) to a more standard imaging program?
     
  7. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Ok, in MY experience, recovering a Primary by using an archive is faster. A couple of factors come into play here (heh, you know if it pertains to a pc that it will never be a simple answer). If it is a recent problem like you just tested a new software program, it hoses your system, recover to the archive that you just created before you tested, yes, faster. This is including the fact that you will need to reboot TWICE, once to the recovery/secondary snapshot, then reboot back (remember, you will also have at least one reboot with an imaging program).

    But if you want for some reason to recover to a very old Archive, then it can take some time depending upon how many gigabits have changed since then. In that case an imaging program can be very similar in time but an imaging program may take you further back in time than you intended to go.

    Have fun,
    Acadia
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    With imaging all you can do is create an incremental. IR archives are database files. So files within the archive can be deleted, replaced and new ones can be added. So refreshing the archive is doing just that, adding new files, replacing those that have change, and deleting those that are no longer needed.

    Pete
     
  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    For Stapp

    I did some timing tests. But first I should note, I can't compare to before with FDISR. These are new machines, with faster stuff. I remember when imaging on the old machines, the fastest transfer I saw was 55 MB/sec. On this new machine I have up to 125 MBsec. But countering that the Win7 system is bigger by a bunch then the old XP machine. So..

    First I defragged.

    My c: drive without snapshot is 48.75gb The archive is 49.38 No Compression.

    I did the archive 1st so it wouldn't change the c: drive. Also the archive is on an internal drive

    Time to build Archive 26:14 minutes
    Time to build Snapshot 48:17 Minutes

    Pete
     
  10. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    As Arcadia said 'people use it in different ways'

    If for example I was going to test a new av I would first copy/update my secondary from primary and then install the av into my primary snapshot.

    If I didn't like it then I would just boot to secondary, copy secondary back over to primary and boot into it. Like the av never happened.

    If however I liked the av and intended to keep it, I would copy/update to secondary and then a day or so later update my archive from primary.

    TheRollbackFrog in case you get confused by the words we use...

    copy/update, copy, update, refresh, all mean exactly the same thing.... making the target the same as the source :)
     
  11. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Bingo. The huge advantage of file copy programs (those few that still remain for TOTAL recovery) is that they are faster AND more reliable (actually, the only one I can think of anymore for TOTAL recovery is FD/IR, are there any others remaining?).

    VERY IMPORTANT: if you TOTALLY hose your system to the point that you cannot even reboot into anything, then you still need the imaging programs. They are not quite as reliable but more potent. I consider a GOOD imaging program combined with the faster, more reliable copy program (FirstDefense/InstantRecovery) an unbeatable one-two punch for recovery. I swear to goodness, this combo has NEVER let me down.

    Acadia
     
  12. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Thanks Peter.

    My times are just about double yours. I just made an archive (35g) to an external, it took 45 minutes.

    My speed for building the archive went between 10 and 20MBsec. For a copy/update it is around 10MBsec but sometimes lower. Raxco didn't seem to think the speed was an issue.

    However all works and that is the happy thing :)
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    True, that speed difference can easily be a function of the machine. My machine is a brand new gaming desktop.

    Pete
     
  14. WWS

    WWS Registered Member

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    Correct me if my thinking is wrong.
    Building the snapshot took longer than building the archive because the primary snapshot (C drive) had to
    write to itself whereas building the archive the primary snapshot (C drive) was writing to a second hard drive.
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I'd have to agree with that.

    Pete
     
  16. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Plus it only indexes once when writing to or building an archive, which cuts down on the time,
     
  17. Seven64

    Seven64 Guest

    Is it recommended to delete all back up from old FD, and start from scratch?
     
  18. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Not really.
    You can:
    1. restore the FD-ISR archive that you want to keep
    2. boot to the restored snapshot
    3. uninstall FD-ISR (program only)
    4. install InstantRecovery
    5. update your archive

    Panagiotis
     
  19. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Hello all: been away and just catching up with this thread ...
    Momentum +++ :D
    Hot thread. Bandwagon rolling.

    Couple of things:
    @billw
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=2328873&postcount=152
    Not sure this was answered..

    PLENTY of experience here with Terabyte tools and FDISR in the past:
    Terabyte tools rock. Highly regarded. Solid Gold software.

    Browse the Terabyte and imaging threads...
    Go back through the FDISR threads and you will see.
    ( If you like ask Pandlouk: guru on both tools !! )

    Very, Very powerful combination. Very compatible, with some minor caveats, in the past with XP ..

    IIRC, IFW "hot" imaging will fail, Cold imaging with raw option always worked with Leapfrog tool on XP.

    You are right to be excited by concept of Raxco IR.
    Previous incarnation with FDISR was on par with Terabyte tools for reliability, support, and, almost no limits to useability.

    Now, some things may have changed with W7 and W8 so may have to experiment. Realistically, i can see the same issues with "hot" option, and same success with raw option, but W7/8 system partition and GPT option will possibly be a stumbling block. As I have not transitioned to W7/8 with Terabyte as yet I cant really comment to much: LOL, no Doubt Terabyte will have the goods.

    I am waiting for someone to post re this combo on W7/8.

    This new Raxco version of FDISR may need some re-evaluation for Terabyte compatibility, but on current reviews it appears there are no real structural changes.

    AND..
    Obviously, for those who have kept faith with FDISR, installing new Raxco IR in primary is fine, but all other snapshots and any archives will have old Leapfrog FDISR installed..

    From Raxco:
    Sounds obvious, but a few pitfalls if no concentrating. ;)
    May be best to follow Pandlouk's suggestion above and Uninstall/Install per snapshot

    FWIW, for the moderately security conscious paranoids @Wilders ;) with tightly wrapped machines , and based on past experience, I bet there will be a few more issues with FDISR and 'newer' malware tools.
    W & W. ?

    I have asked at Raxco, but, are the licenses in perpetuity and applicable to new HW and OS.
    IE: upgrading from current 4 XP machines to 4x new HW and W7. ??

    regards.
     
  20. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    A newbie question...

    I understand the snapshot mode and I think I understand the archives, BUT... is there a COLD restore available for placing archives back into snapshots.

    I guess what I'm wondering is... if my protected (snapshot-based) HDD goes belly up, exactly what do I have to do to utilize one of my archives as the eventual restored system for a replacement HDD? Or is secondary imaging the only way?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Froggie

    If you have any images of your system you would start there.

    1. If the image has IR installed, you should have two snapshots. In this case just boot to the one that isn't the primary and restore the archive from there. Then you are current.

    2. If you don't have IR in the image then it helps if you not only have an Archive of your primary snapshot, but an archive of your secondary. (Note, many of us use a stripped down Secondary Snapshot, just to boot to for archive restore purposes..

    This method can be used for both an image without IR or even a clean windows install.

    a) Once you have windows up and running, install IR and don't let it create a secondary snapshot. Just do an Archive restore of your secondary Archive and create a secondary snapshot.

    b) Boot to the secondary snapshot, and restore the primary Archive to your Primary Snapshot

    c) Boot back to the primary and you are done.

    CAUTION: If you use Appguard, be sure to turn off just for Archive restores.

    Note: I have personally tested the clean windows approach as a fall back and it works like a champ.

    I have also used the old FDISR to do a disk repair, that nothing else could have done.

    Pete
     
  22. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Greetings once again! I just need some quick confirmation on some facts obtained from this thread...

    I made the following statement in another thread (AX64 TM) concerning RIR...

    "Sure, Raxco Instant Restore can do some neat snapshotting capability... but at the cost of a LOT of protected disk storage (and expensive if it's an SSD)... and neither (RIR or Rollback RX) can protect you against protected disk failure without an additional imaging application."

    I was told by a user in that forum that the statement was wrong on both counts. I didn't think I got all that feedback wrong so I'm back here to make sure.

    That statement was based on feedback from Peter and others concerning RIR. The fact that if I wanted to maintain (2) snapshots (current system and mini archive restoration environment, for a decent speed restoration (uncompressed snaps) I would need at least twice, if not more, the amount of space on my protected partition as is the size of my current USED system configuration. The reason... RIR's snapshots must be stored on that same protected partition.

    The other information obtained here was that if I lose my protected partition's (<SS or HD>D) disk due to hardware failure, RIR offers no COLD restoration method to return a possible archived snapshot to a replacement disk... I would need at least a secondary imaging tool (IFW, Macrium, etc.) to return to an additional saved system configuration that contained the necessary element (RIR) to now return that system to an archived RIR snapshot.

    Unless I'm waaaaay off base, I'm just looking for a confirmation of my assembled facts above... thanks!
     
  23. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Froggie, you basically got it correct. The ONLY drawback to IR, in my opinion, is the disk space it uses (Yes, it is not as fast either but it is more flexible). Since it is NOT a mirror imaging system, there is no "cold" restore although the pre-Boot option works wonders if you can still boot into the Recovery Snapshot; I don't know what scenario would make that impossible but I suppose it could happen.

    Case in point: in my now ten years of using FD/IR there was one time the FD could not save me, I no longer remember why. I had to do a year old image restore using ShadowProtect. But that year old image still had FD installed so all I had to do was recover my last FD Archive, one day old, bingo, system fully recovered.

    Even Raxco on its website states that IR does NOT replace your normal recovery programs, I can only assume that they mean mirror imaging programs since IR is file/folder copy, not sector.

    I find the combo of ShadowProtect and IR a one-two punch that cannot be beat. But, YES, you are correct, IR uses a lot of disk space. In my case that is not a problem since I always maintain a warehouse of AT LEAST a dozen Archives on three different drives. Since I have a SSD I only have my Primary and Secondary Snapshots on the c:drive, my 240gb drive is about 1/3 full with both bootable snaps.

    I agree that the ultimate protection is a recovery cd or usb from a RELIABLE imaging program. But to repeat myself, I have only had to go that route once in ten years because I had that fabulous IR pre-Boot feature.

    It is really neat finally having so many reliable, unique options. I am still using AX64 on my wife's machine.

    Acadia
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  24. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    The one I mentioned... a failed SSD/HDD. Surely no pre-BOOT option there... :D

    Thanks for the clarification, Acadia!
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Froggie

    Don't have time now, but I will post a mess I got into and only RIR/FDISR had the ability to make the fix easy.

    Pete
     
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