Restore image with IFW

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by dueceswild, Jul 28, 2012.

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  1. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Yes.

    TeraByte has taught me a lot of the finer points of the apps. I'm grateful.
     
  2. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    And I assume you have sold several licenses for them due to your help here. I know I bought mine because of it.

    Thank you.
     
  3. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I appreciate the pat on the back.

    One thing I forgot to mention. If you have a lot of unallocated space. Several GB. BIBM still installs itself into only an 8 MB partition. (With a cylinder aligned system it will be 8 MB. With a 2048 sector aligned system it may be 5 MB) It doesn't matter where BIBM creates that partition in the unallocated space but it will be at the start or end. Not in the middle.
     
  4. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks for the help Brian. I successfully backed up and restored the XP machine following your instructions. When I backed up, I backed up the OS partition, and noticed a grayed out box with a check in it- the MBR I assume. I didn't check to back up the whole disk, only the OS partition. In my restore, I only restored the OS partition.

    Do I need to make a different image to purposefully back up the MBR. I was worried about restoring it if I needed to- like fooling around with BIBM.
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    dueceswild,

    The MBR is generally regarded as the first sector on a HD. LBA-0. It contains bootstrap code, the Disk Signature and the partition table. It is not part of any partition as the first partition starts at LBA-63 or LBA-2048. The first track is LBA-0 to LBA-62. 63 sectors. The term track goes back to CHS days where there were 63 sectors in a head and 255 heads in a cylinder. The other word for head is "track". Cylinder aligned means the partitions begin on "cylinders". ie an integer multiple of 63*255=16065 sectors. 2048 sector aligned means the partitions begin on integer multiples of 2048 sectors.

    The First Track is the first head. The first 63 sectors and it has nothing to do with cylinder or 2048 sector alignment. Whenever the TeraByte apps backup a partition they also backup the First Track. So you can choose to restore an image with or without restoring the First Track. When restoring an image to the same HD the First Track is already there so it is really pointless to restore the First Track. But if you do it, no problem.

    When restoring an image to a new empty HD there is obviously no First Track. In the IFW Options your greyed out field was AUTO. It becomes active if you tick the Restore First Track box. Then IFW (etc) will restore the relevant First Track sectors. If you forget to tick Restore First Track, IFW (etc) will create a generic MBR which is good enough for 99% of us and the restored image will boot. It's only essential to Restore First Track if you have a special MBR such as a boot manager installed in the First Track.

    With your WinXP system you can experiment with this.

    An exception to the above is Ubuntu with Grub2 installed in the "MBR". Grub2 actually installs into the first 103 sectors and people with any imaging app found that a restored Ubuntu image (on a new HD) would not boot even with Restore First Track. The TeraByte apps have an option to restore more than 63 sectors and they can restore the 103 sectors to enable Ubuntu to boot on the new HD. Does anyone know of another imaging app that can restore more than the first 63 sectors?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  6. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    Thanks for the reply Brian, and the detailed explanation. That helped to envision what is going on, and makes some of the options more sensible.
     
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Excellent. Where was the image stored?
     
  8. dueceswild

    dueceswild Registered Member

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    on an external drive.
     
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    OK. Just curious.
     
  10. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Hi Brian :)

    A lot of great detailed info on TBU products. Thank you! You mentioned in the quote above about old version of IFW will not restore an image created by the current version. Does this apply to say IFL, which is what I use mainly, the Linux version. I have not noticed any problems with making an image using the current IFL 2.73 and then restoring it with say IFL V 2.71. I have IFL back to V 2.69. Is your comment just referring to IFW or imagew.exe, or do you refer to a major new version such as the difference between say V 1.X and 2.X and not a minor release such as 2.69 to 2.70, etc.?

    Thank you for all your information...very much appreciated. :)
    Jim
     
  11. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  12. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Thank you Brian for this information. I do not remember seeing this mentioned. I just updated to 2.73 IFL the other day. So with v. 2.73 I can use it to restore images I created with 2.69 - 2.71, but I must use "backward compatible"?

    I read their statement, but I did not use 2.72. I went from 2.71 to 2.73 but it appeared 2.71 restored fine with an image created by 2.73. Good to know this, I guess if there was a problem I would know it by now.

    I'm sorry for being a bit unclear, I guess bottom line is *any* images created with 2.72 requires 2.72 or later to restore...so if I never used 2.72 but recently updated to 2.73 is why it appears no problem with using 2.71 to restore a 2.73 image? Now I am confused LOL

    I guess I better use 2.73 period. Appreciate your help with this. I have been imaging for years, using mostly TBU IFL since Feb 2012, and always thought they were backward compatible other than for versions before 2.x.

    Thanks!
    Jim
     
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Jim,

    I've never used "Backwards Compatible". A 2.73 boot disk will restore images from all previous versions.

    I think I had trouble restoring a 2.73 image with a 2.71 boot disk but I'm not sure. The boot disk version may have been older.

    IFL is amazing. It's the only app I know that can restore images over a wireless network. Not that I do this often.
     
  14. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Thank you so much Brian for all of your help!

    So I am ok if I just use 2.73 from here out, both to create and restore. I would hope if it was not possible to use 2.71 to restore a newer version image, it would offer an alert or something. I'll stick with 2.73 to be safe. I am sure I used 2.71 to restore a 2.73 image, but as much imaging and testing of different software I do, I may have lost track.

    That really is incredible about restoring an image over a wireless network LOL Indeed IFL is amazing. I liked it over both IFW and IFD right away due to its features and ability outside of the OS. It really is a complete package, only thing missing is ability to do partition work, but I also bought BIBM for that, just have not used it yet. I normally use the bootable version of Partition Wizard home to work with partitions.

    Thanks again...have a peaceful night.
    Jim
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    From memory it has issues with MB (2048 sector) aligned partitions. I use BIBM exclusively.

    I'm not suggesting you try this but the TBOSDT for BIBM allows you to do command line partitioning. Here is a TBOSDT script to remove a Win7 SRP.

    Code:
    mount 1: 3 0x01
    mount 2: 3 0x02
    copy 1:Boot\* 2:Boot\ /s
    copy 1:bootmgr 2:
    umount 1:
    del partition 3 0x01
    umount 2:
    set part active 3 0x02
    slide 3 0x02 0 /a=2048
    resize 3 0x02 /a=2048
    reboot
    
    The partitioning section deletes the SRP, sets Win7 Active, slides and resizes Win7 to take up the 100 MB of unallocated space left after the SRP was deleted.
     
  16. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian...interesting indeed. The latest version of Part. wizard now has an "Align" feature but have not tried it. That is great to know about BIBM. When I installed Win7, I never used the SRP as I installed on a formatted existing partition. This is good info. to know for sure though regarding BIBM.

    In fact now that I think about it, I never aligned anything on my laptop hard disk. I have read about it, but was always a bit afraid to do it I guess and thought it was only for SSD, not for SATA like in my laptop. Is it difficult?, necessary? I guess I was concerned about it that if I tried say using the "Align" feature of the new Partition Wizard home, it would cause a problem with images created before alignment? My disk is laid out with 4 parts...the Dell Utility partition, small about 55MB, then a factory recovery part. that I do not use anymore and cleaned out the files, then my Win7 OS part, then a fat32 partition used for data backups, etc. Should all these be aligned or just my Win7 partition? Sorry to take this off topic.

    I am not too familiar with alignment I guess, but willing to learn. Great info. Brian, thanks for taking the time to help.

    Jim
     
  17. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Jim,

    If you aren't using a SSD don't worry about changing your alignment. But maybe if you have a 4k sector HD.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=2093931#post2093931#30

    See Post #30.

    2048 sector alignment (MB alignment) and Cylinder alignment have nothing to do with the First Track. Alignment relates to where the partitions commence. 2048 sector aligned partitions begin on an integer multiple of 2048 sectors. Cylinder aligned partitions begin on an integer multiple of 16065 sectors.

    For example if a partition began on LBA-30,972,837,888 it would be 2048 sector aligned.


    Edit....

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=546
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  18. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    I learn something new every day. Thanks again Brian. Not sure about the 4K HD. Only thing I changed on the laptop was getting rid of Vista that came with it via formatting the Vista part., then installed Win7 Pro when I got it on same part. back in Nov. 2009. The laptop is a Dell E 1705 inspiron with 160GB SATA Samsung HD.

    Great info in that post you shared. I do not know of any imaging app that can restore beyond 63 sectors MBR, I didn't know TBU could do this. Those guys sure have covered most areas. For MBR backup alone, I have used MBRwizard command line program which allows for backing up a range starting at 0 to ? I have used it to backup the MBR just to have it saving into a file sectors 0 - 100. But finding an imaging app that will restore beyond 63 sectors I had no idea even TBU could do that.

    I just checked and my start sector of my Win7 OS part. (# 3) starts at 21,084,160 Doesn't sound like a 4K HD does it? I mean my OS partition of course is NTFS 4k cluster. Sorry, this is a bit new to me as far as alignment issues. Great info. by the way from that TB link. Very interesting.

    I sure appreciate both the tips and the info. Brian!
    Jim
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  19. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Jim,

    Your old 160 GB HD won't be 4k sector Advanced Format.

    21,084,160/2048 = 10,295. An integer, so your Win7 partition is already 2048 sector aligned.
     
  20. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Thank you Brian for confirming that. Now I have to ponder what I learned so far. I didn't think it was 4K sector after reading the article from TB link you gave me. Good to know it is aligned though. :)

    Jim
     
  21. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Jim,

    I recently replaced two 640 GB HDs with two 2 TB 4k Advanced Format HDs. I used IFD to Copy my partitions to the new HD and made sure all of the cylinder aligned partitions on the old HDs were copied as 2048 sector aligned partitions on the new HDs.
     
  22. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Interesting...so it is fine to stay with 2048 sector aligned even though your new drives were advanced format. I am still amazed at how flexible TBU products are!

    I have used IFD very seldom, maybe 2 or 3 times because at first I had some hangups due to my own mistake at telling it how to access my drive, then I learned from TB what was best to use, I think it was BIOS direct?, but cannot remember now as I seldom use it, but the latest version I tried of IFD was at 2.71 which worked well once I leaned the best way to access drives. In IFL, I always use File Direct for access. I did download the latest IFD, IFL and IFW 2.73, as mentioned the other day, I really only use IFL though as I like cold imaging compared to hot, but the little bit I used IFW, it did a solid job hot imaging, although I got the event viewer complaint I think about VSS when I used TBI mount, but TB basically suggested ignoring the reported event, or editing a registry key which I never bothered with once I began using IFL. :)
     
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Yes, you should use 2048 sector alignment with these HDs.

    I could have used IFL. I just grabbed the IFD disk first. Use whichever one you like best.
     
  24. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Jim,

    Have you considered replacing your current HD with a 128 GB SSD? It would be like having a new computer.
     
  25. Jim1cor13

    Jim1cor13 Registered Member

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    Good morning Brian :)

    No I haven't considered that, but now that you mention it, I agree it would certainly be a performance boost. I did get an extra duplicate drive a year or so ago from a guy on eBay. He had replaced his drive with a 320GB HD, and the Samsung 160GB he had was used very little. I got it as a spare to have. It is still wrapped up on a shelf. I tested it with Vantec IDE/SATA to USB hookup and it spun up and seemed fine. That Vantec kit is handy for getting external access to bare drives, using it to do disk copying, laying down images, prepping etc. I also have a bare 500GB Maxtor I use with the Vantec hookup as an external USB device for storage for my wifes computer, etc, in addition to a WD 1TB elements external USB drive that I use for the laptop images, backups.

    Do you have a preference in regards to SSD drives? I hope they have come down in price, but it is something to think about and I appreciate the idea. I am aware of SSD, read a bit about them, but have always wondered if they had the longevity of a regular HD, or maybe they last longer?
     
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