Rollback Rx question

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No problem bg... I take it that you do 'bother' to backup your current RB snapshot? If you feel you would never have a need to recover an older RB snap that's certainly a faster and less space-consuming approach than backing up all RB snaps.

Scott

 

Thanks for the advice Scott,

Fortunately the computer is brand new and I have not saved any data or installed programs on it yet so that should make things easier.

I noticed that the volume SYSTEM RESERVED (System, Active, Primary Partition) 100MB - has the word "system" in its parenthesis.

Would that be the system volume then? I know you said the C: was both data and system, but just wanted to confirm.

Also the 25.07GB (OEM Partition) I'm assuming is what holds the Lenovo One-Key recovery, if so, I would like to delete it to get that 25GB back. It doesn't allow me to shrink volume or delete however. I'm thinking it is permanent and not deletable.

I went ahead and shrunk the C:, it only let me do around 450000mb maximum, here is a new picture of how it looks now:

http://i.imgur.com/MsfuB.jpg

It doesn't seem like I would be able to split it 46gb for system, 400gb for data, and 460gb for internal backup

 

Thank you, straight forward is what I'm looking for. I will try it out as soon as I figure out the partition issue. I read how to do shrink or extend partitions and that seemed easy enough, especially since I have not saved or added anything to the computer.

 

TheMozart and Moreudomoreuget, you will find a detailed description of the differences here:

http://www.rollbacksoftware.com/replacement_windows_system_restore.php

 

Yes Scott, I image with Rx installed weekly using DriveCloner and monthly with Rx uninstalled using Paragon. In addition I upload critical data files to an on-line storage site (IDrive) nightly. I also keep duplicate copies of my images at an off-site location (not that I am paranoid or anything).

 

I am using a free version of Paragon, my version is a bit long in the tooth but you can get the current free version here http://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/

By the way, Paragon makes an excellent partition manager, you can get a copy bundled with the backup program. If you are interested you can find out more here http://www.paragon-software.com/home/

PS: I just noticed that there is a special on the stand alone partition manager for $9.95, the link immediately above will take you to the page for this as well.

 

Nice video detailing how Rx works, if I did not already own a licence I would buy one.

 

Tell me what good it is to backup your current snapshot?

Is your current snapshot there on restoration of the image?

Best regards,

KOR!

 

On the occaisions when I have restored a normal hot-image (made with DS) the system that was restored was my most current state (i.e., RB's current snapshot). It was completely functional, with the sole exception of RB, which had to be uninstalled and reinstalled.

Does that answer your questions?

Scott

 

And guess what, the Rollback Rx is nonfunctional and therefore your current snapshot is nonfunctional too.

To make the Rollback Rx functional, you have to uninstall and reinstall. Once you uninstall Rollback Rx, your current snapshot is gone (kaput). And, when you reinstall Rollback Rx, a new baseline is created and thus a new snapshot.

In conclusion: Your restored Rollback Rx current snapshot is useless as it is not functional and kaput, due to the fact Rollback Rx is itself not functional.

Best regards,

KOR!

P. S. But with IFW and with hot sector to sector imaging, on restoration not only Rollback Rx is functional but also all your snapshots are restored and all the snapshots are functional too.

 

KOR, you are absolutely wrong in this respect - I can't believe you are speaking from experience - are you hypothesizing?

• Fact: Before uninstalling RB, the current RB snapshot = the most current system state.
• Fact: Creating a normal hot image saves the most current system state.
• Fact: Restoring the above image restores your most current system state.
• Fact: Uninstalling RB does not remove anything but the RB installation files and its modification of the MBR.
• Fact: The system remains 100% functional; it's not necessary to reinstall RB to regain normal system functionality!
• Fact: Upon reinstalling RB, the most current system state = RB's new baseline snapshot (all older snapshots are gone).

I do not deny that. Furthermore, a Raw Cold Image with DS (or most any other disk-imaging program) can accomplish this as well. But neither of these methods invalidate what I have said (above)!!!

Regards,
Scott

 

You are restoring the image and not rolling back to the current snapshot of Rollback Rx. On restoration of the image, the current snapshot of Rollback Rx is useless. WHY?

Fact: As Rollback Rx is not functional, therefore you cannot rollback to the current snapshot of Rollback Rx you just restored from your imaging program. In your case it is DS.

I am pretty sure that you are capable of understanding the above.

For the above reason BGoodMan4 is not bothered to image with the current snapshot of Rollback Rx, as it is useless. Now you understand why!


Best regards,

KOR!

P.S. Now my old coot friend Aaron Here will ask why I am using Sindbad the Sailor!

 

KOR/sinbad, what are you smoking?

Since you refuse to accept the fact that I have been doing this and it works, may I suggest you ask other RB-aware Wilders members such as Aaron Here, bgoodman4, Jo Ann, Pandlouk, or TheRollbackFrog to see if I'm hallucinating (and if what I'm doing is useless)!!!

Scott

 

It shows your lack of knowledge of Rollback Rx and imaging programs. Yes, any imaging program, while HOT imaging will preserve the current status of the hard drive, including the current snapshot of Rollback Rx. But on restoration of that image the current snapshot of Rollback Rx is useless, as Rollback Rx itself is nonfunctional.

And, for the above reason BGoodMan4 don't see any reason to image the hard drive with the current snapshot of Rollback Rx.

BTW, BGoodMan4 is an expert on Rollback Rx as he is a very, very long time exprienced user of Rollback Rx, much more exprienced than Jo Ann and some of the others.

Best regards,

KOR!

P.S. You should read some of the posts of BGoodMan4 at the HDS forum, and try to learn from his vast exprience and massive knowledge of Rollback Rx.

 

KOR/sinbad, your arguement totally ignores two very important facts:

1. RB's Current Snapshot is the Current System State (which is saved and restored).
2. I'm not just repeating what I've read - I'm actually doing this and it works!!!

...and since you value bgoodman4's opinion, just read what he wrote above (relevant portion quoted below). Based on that statement it seems to me he believes this works! - why not ask him?

I'm pretty sure this statement implies that he is creating a normal hot-image so he must believe doing so will save his current RB snapshot (i.e., the current system state)!

Scott

 

Wow, I am getting rather bewildered,,,,,snapshots are not images, and images are not snapshots or images of snapshots.

When you restore an image it is an image of the state of the system at the time of the image,,,,,which in effect is what the snapshot that was taken at that time is a record of (and the snapshot is only a record of the datas hooks at the time the snap was taken, it is not in any way the state of the drive itself). You are not imaging or restoring a snapshot, you are imaging the drive as seen by Windows, and you are restoring that state of the drive when you do a restore.

Think of it this way, Windows and most Windows programs cannot see Rx snaps or much of the Rx installation, therefore, apart from using IFW and DS (as reported by Scott) to create an all sector image, no snap, or part of a snapshot will be captured by an imaging program and thus no snap will be able to be restored to the drive during the restore process.

I personally have no interest in saving copies of snapshots because, as far as I am concerned, the purpose of a snap is to enable me to roll back to a previous state should the PC develop problems. If my PC were exhibiting problems there is no way I would want to create an image of the drive at that time except as way to possibly capture data files in the event of a major (catastrophic) issue. Generally the only time I will create an image is when the PC (at least) appears to be in good order, and if the PC is in good order I see no use for capturing anything other than the state of the drive at that time. What possible use could having 4, 5, or a dozen snaps serve if the latest one is of a clean, properly functioning system?

Now it is true that not all problems necessarily show up right away. It is conceivable that simply restoring the most recent image will not get rid of the issue and thats why I keep a number of images (actually a rolling 4 weeks of images), so that if I have to I can go back further in time. My most recent files would be available (max a week old) from the most recent image (which I could load as a virtual drive enabling me to grab those files). Finally, the reason I upload critical files to IDrive nightly is so that the most I can lose (worst case scenario) of these critical files would be 1 days worth of data.

I honestly have little expectation of having to restore an image, Rx is just too good at what it does to make this anything but a relatively rare event for the typical user, but I like knowing that I am as prepared as I can be for most any eventuality.

I should like to apologize if the above is somewhat rambling or confusing. I have now been up for 36 hours straight and I am running on fumes. I hope the above makes sense,

 

Thank you BGoodMan4 for so beautifully explaining the differences between images and snapshots. Your exprienes shows.

Yes, when one makes an image, one makes an image of the state of hard disk (partition) at that point in time. And, when one restores that image, one restores exactly what was in that image.

Thanks for clearing the confussion between images and snapshots. On restoration of image, the current snapshot of Rollback Rx will be useless, no mater what imaging program is used, and that includes both DS and IFW,

Best regards,

KOR!

 

While I cannot speak from experience it is my understanding if you have done a full sector by sector image with either DS or IFW and then restore that image you will have a fully functioning Rx with all snapshots intact and available. This has been well documented in regards to IFW here http://horizondatasys-forum.com/rollback-rx/2491-rollback-rx-image-windows-perfect-together.html and at other locations. Horizon Datasys has not commented on this capability however.

You are 100% correct however that if you restore a normal image (as opposed to an IFW full sector image) the current snapshot will be useless,,,,,basically because it will not exist,,,,,and Rx will have to be uninstalled and reinstalled, at which time a new baseline will be created.

 

Hi bg, Why doesn't Horizon refer to using their Drive Cloner Rx doing images instead of IFW and DS? I realize we're talking about sector by sector rather than normal images but I bought DC to work with my RB and might enjoy reading a tip or two about using these sister apps together from time to time.

 

Horizon doesn't promote either IFW or DS. You have to understand between COLD (outside Windows) and HOT (inside Windows) imaging.

When COLD and sector to sector imaging is done, ALL imaging programs capture the Rollback Rx program and all the snapshots of Rollback Rx, as the imaging is done outside Windows.

But when HOT and sector to sector imaging is done, ONLY IFW (and not DS) captures the Rollback Rx program and all the snapshots of Rollback Rx. IFW accomplices this with two things:

1. IFW uses it's own Windows locking program called, "PHYLock.sys" instead of Windows locking program called, "VSS.sys by Microsoft" which is used by all other imaging programs including DS and DC.

2. The IFW "PHYLock.sys" has to be above the Rollback Rx "Shield.sys" in the UpperFilters, this allows IFW to pseudo image outside Windows, even though the imaging is done in Windows, basically achieving COLD imaging as far as Rollback Rx is concerned.

This accomplishment of IFW was discovered by Froggie (TheRollbackFrog) and he has opened a thread on this at Horizon Forum, and later on the Forum decided to make this as a "Sticky".

Best regards,

KOR!

P.S. 1. When COLD normal imaging is done with any imaging program and Rollback Rx is installed, this creates a very dangerous situation, as the image only captures the data when Rollback Rx was installed, basically baseline data.

P.S. 2. When HOT normal imaging is done with any imaging program, only the current snapshot is captured. On restoration of that image, it makes Rollback Rx nonfunctional, thus making the current snapshot useless. As BG said, "the current snapshot will be useless,,,,,basically because it will not exist,,,,,and Rx will have to be uninstalled and reinstalled, at which time a new baseline will be created."

 

Drive Cloner used to be part of Rx, then Horizon decided to split it off, possibly with the idea that they had/have plans to offer snapshot retention during imaging with the next version of Rx and DC. I can see why they would see selling 2 programs rather than one as a benefit for them.

At this time it seems to be Horizons recommendation to image with Rx uninstalled even when using DC. I have no idea why.

 

KOR, I was not aware of this and I appreciate you providing the info. Clearly this situation would be very bad indeed.

Also, to be clear, I was surprised (and bewildered) with some of the statements above, I intended no disrespect but thought it would be beneficial to all if it were clear that when you image with Rx installed you are not including snaps in the image (except in the case of a full sector by sector HOT image done with IFW) and that the snap itself has little to nothing to do with the state of the drive that is being imaged. There were a number of references to imaging the snap as if the state of the drive and the snap were one and the same. This is of course incorrect and thats all I was trying to get across.

 

Now hold on KOR, you have done it again. the current snap is not in any way captured and neither is a significant portion of the Rx installation. That is why these don't work, because they do not exist in either the image or on the restored drive.

Why do you keep talking about capturing the current snap? What you are capturing is everything EXCEPT all snaps, including the current one, and part of the Rx interface. It is at best very misleading to say what you are saying.

Lets say you have Rx take a snap at boot. This morning at 8:30 am you booted your PC. Then, after a day of working on the PC you decide to create an image with whatever program (other than IFW) of your choosing. Are you really saying that what the image is, is of the snap that was taken at 8:30 am? If you are I would have to disagree with you completely. The image will include all data and changes that were recorded to the drive during the day, the snap has nothing to do with this. If you were really imaging the snap none of this data would exist and it would be missing upon the restoration of the image.

 

KOR and bg, Thanks for clearing up that info for me! This is all starting to gel in my head now.

 

twl845 I think you may have missed my post immediately above your last one as I was typing at the same time you were. I posted a very short time befopre you hit the submit button.