Trusteer Rapport

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by PC__Gamer, Jun 17, 2011.

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  1. m00nbl00d

    m00nbl00d Registered Member

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    Perhaps that was the real problem. The user only caring about the money, but not actually caring about the application he thought was protecting his money as well.

    Perhaps if he cared, he'd come to realize he would either need to manually add the website to Rapport's protection or get a different application, if Rapport was not what he needed.

    There are always two sides of the same coin, unless one purposefully creates a coin with the same side. :p

    By the way, how can a surgery operation be a success, if the patient dies? :argh:

    I don't call that a success... :eek:
     
  2. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    That's rather the point ;)

    It's an old line, and is used to describe situations when what is defined as 'success' for a particular task doesn't take into account the whole system.

    Like the bone density trials with fluoride - they increased the bone density in the test group (success), but the real world result was that the intervention significantly increased the rate of hip fractures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2011
  3. raven211

    raven211 Registered Member

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    Always been confused where to download Rapport (living in Sweden), hehe. How does it compare to SpyShelter? My apologies if this is against the forum policy, still dunno which kind of these questions are allowed and not allowed. xD
     
  4. 031

    031 Registered Member

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    Nice thread. I think banks should start distributing ubuntu live cds. This battle between keylogger and antikeylogger will never end. :isay: :isay:
     
  5. Scoobs72

    Scoobs72 Registered Member

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    And it is still an utterly false analogy. We're talking about user error here. A real case of RTFM. He had an expectation that Rapport would do something that it does not. It is not an operation successful/patient dies or tree cut down/but it fell on the house situation. Stop blaming the software when it was the user at fault.
     
  6. AssassinKID

    AssassinKID Registered Member

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    Just uninstalled my SOL, replaced with TF. TY for opening my eyes guys :thumb:
     
  7. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    Seems simple to me, in answering the OP's question, "is Rapport a similar solution to Prevx SafeOnline".

    Prevx would have been aware of a security problem and alerted the user to this, while Rapport wasn't and didn't. It didn't do what was needed, no matter what it is designed to do.

    I understand what you're saying but that's irrelevant as the kind of people I help don't care about the distinction, and will never RTFM no matter how much we'd want them to. They just want to know what will "protect them online" and have it "just work".


    LOL, good luck with that :p
     
  8. Scoobs72

    Scoobs72 Registered Member

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    No, Prevx may have been aware of a security problem. Unless you categorically know that Prevx detected this malware on the day it was installed you cannot say that.

    And there is never a simple answer to that. Take Prevx SOL again - it's browser support is now so poor (no Firefox 4 or 5 support for example) that it is not a workable solution for many people. But you need to read the manual to realise that also.

    So whether RTFM is irrelevant to the people you help or not, unless you do RTFM there will be perpetual disappointment and complaints. As it stands, Rapport was probably the best option available to them at this time. They should count their blessings that they 'only' had their credit card details hacked.
     
  9. m00nbl00d

    m00nbl00d Registered Member

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    This didn't make much sense to me, I must confess. I'd see the whole system has being the hospital, doctors and the patient's life/death/side effects. The task would be the surgery.

    If the patient dies or any side effect occurs, the surgery/the task is not a success to both the patient and the doctors/hospital.

    How can an application do something, if it wasn't designed to do it? Somehow, this reminds me of Matousec. :blink:

    Wouldn't that be the same as expecting an on-demand scanner to protect me in real-time? An application cannot do what it wasn't designed for.
     
  10. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    I'd be interested to hear what you think is the best approach with typical users. You're correct that they don't educate themselves regarding security software. Wanting things to "just work" is magical thinking and the reason why many users have bad experiences. The buck has to stop with them though, or with the people they consult with. I'm always trying to educate my customers about security and one thing I tell them is no software is going to protect them perfectly and they need to be careful what they do. Blaming the software when something goes wrong instead of taking personal responsibility is just perpetuating the problem.
     
  11. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    That's a fair point. On that machine there were so many minor trojans & spyware programs etc that realistically the best I can say is I'm fairly certain that it would have detected at least something and hence alerted the user. There were reports on virustotal older than the creation dates of some of the malware present, but frankly I can't remember how Prevx did on any of them. Malwarebytes on-demand was able to make detections while the rootkit was active, so there's no reason to think that Prevx free wouldn't have also.

    Yes I'd read that in the Prevx forums; I'm not particularly a proponent of any identity protection software TBH. When people indicate that they're particularly paranoid about online banking or shopping, I just give them a couple of Ubuntu or Linux mint CDs and demonstrate how to use them.

    Exactly! Without derailing this thread further, I will say that in a past life I worked in intensive care/high dependency and would often receive these 'successes'. Post surgical-sepsis has always been a big issue. The surgeons often would focus only on the mechanical aspect that needed fixing, e.g. a broken hip, but not properly consider the whole person. For example the fact that one patient was 90+ years old and in poor health apparently didn't come into it, nor the fact that they died slowly and painfully from sepsis while I did the best I could to minimise that pain. Unfortunately true.

    I'm sure it was the patient and the family's fault for agreeing to surgery (I know you aren't saying this, so you don't need to defend against a strawman argument). Forgive me for speaking of darker things, apparently it's struck a nerve thinking of this.
     
  12. m00nbl00d

    m00nbl00d Registered Member

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    OK. You're seeing the patient's body as the system. It's fair. I personally see the system being the hospital, doctors and patient. You can't have one without the other.

    The patient has to be part of this system. Neglections aside (which both doctors and hospitals should be held responsible (not just one side), IMHO), whenever someone needs a surgery (including) me, I need to be aware of all the facts, before the surgery. After I'm aware of all the facts, I need to decide if, considering all the facts, I should still do it (the surgery ... if I still want the product.)

    If they tell me what the surgery may or may not do to me, if I'm warned before hand, then it's my fault.

    I could apply the same to Rapport. It's explained to the user what it does and what it doesn't. It doesn't promise miracles either. What fault does the company/hospital behind such product/surgery has, if the user/patient didn't care about what the surgery/product would or not accomplish?

    Despite all the needed information being provided to this person/patient, he/she decided to neglect such information.

    Yes, it's sad when things like this happen, but it's a reality. And, hospital/doctors/software vendor neglections aside, if the patient/user neglected all the provided information, you can't blame the surgery/product nor the hospital/software vendor. They explained what the surgery/product would do and what it wouldn't do. The user/patient couldn't care less. Or, the user/patient cared about it, but still decided for the surgery/product. Even though bad things could result from it.

    Unfortunately, in what comes to our health, it seems to be all or nothing. I mean, if I got cancer, I can't try to find what best fits my needs. I either decide for the treatment or decide not to have it. And, I believe that's where the analogy has to end.
    But, when talking about a security product, it's not all or nothing. One must use what best fits our needs. If something doesn't fit my needs, then I won't use it. If it does, I'll use it. If I'm using something just for the sake of using it, I can't blame the product for not protecting me, if it was not developed in such a way. Can I? ;)

    You can't behave like that, and then expect to blame everyone for your bad jugdement.

    P.S: By the way, the Mooo! Blood thing, makes me think of bloodied cows. I don't want to have nightmares. :argh:
     
  13. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    I agree with everything you said in general. I suppose I take it person by person, as not everyone is amenable to advice and it does me little good to try to force them to do things my way. If they are particularly worried about banking, then as mentioned many are happy with Ubuntu/Linux Mint CDs and can understand the benefit of them.

    Usually I'll add elements of prevention like HOSTS files, alternative DNS, Adblocking etc. Anything that updates itself is better. Anything I suggest has to fit in with what they already have and what they can do, and not slow things down or they'll feel worse off. For that reason, I never recommend a HIPS solution. If they are really interested, then I can leave them with some information on how to gradually improve their security.

    Realistically people are only going to take on one new good habit at a time, so if something requires a manual action (e.g. updating Hostsman with the latest MalwareDomainList, running regular scans with MBAM, etc) then I'll only give them one thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  14. AssassinKID

    AssassinKID Registered Member

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    Uhm, clarification? o_O
     
  15. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    Sorry, I thought you were making a joke. :/
     
  16. AssassinKID

    AssassinKID Registered Member

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    o_O What wrong with replacing SOL with TF?
     
  17. RJK3

    RJK3 Registered Member

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    If it works for you and your setup, nothing.

    Personally I'd rather put all my resources into prevention, detection, and containment - rather than having a program running all the time that assumes your computer is infected. If you never get infected, then you never need it anyway. Still, the MRG tests show that Rapport does do it's specific job - but for a failsafe, a Linux LiveCD is always going to be a better choice IMO.

    Edit: I'm assuming you mean Trusteer Rapport rather than ThreatFire. Speaking of which, I used to be a big proponent of that piece of software two years ago, but I really think its time is done unfortunately. From what I've read on their forums, it's not being updated by the original team who produced it, and no significant work has been done on it in a long time. Last time I used it (early 2010 maybe), it wasn't catching anything in my own testing, and all it did really was slow things down. Everyone I've suggested to uninstall it has thanked me for it later just because of the performance hit they didn't realise was there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  18. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

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    just read the full thread, completely agree with guest and scoobs

    rapport= installed
     
  19. AssassinKID

    AssassinKID Registered Member

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    I actually do mean ThreatFire, as Trusteer Rapport slows things down as you and everyone here said, but ThreatFire is more reliable as it's a HIPS and should catch most of what SOL misses
     
  20. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

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    no, me and a few others have not said this.

    i notice no speed difference whatsoever, then again i do have 8GB ram
     
  21. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    Ram isn't the issue on my system. I have six gigs and I notice the slowdown with Trusteer Rapport. I believe the performance hit is mostly in the network and not on the local system, but it's not clear and I don't see that the configuration can be tweaked at all.
     
  22. treehouse786

    treehouse786 Registered Member

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    ah i see, i am using Open DNS if that is of any useful info
     
  23. Scoobs72

    Scoobs72 Registered Member

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    2GB of ram on one of my PCs with no slowdown from Trusteer. Anyway, RAM usage rarely causes slowdowns these days simply because we have so much of it. Compatibility issue with NIS perhaps?
     
  24. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    Possibly, but it seems important that Rapport be compatible with other security programs since it's not meant to replace them. If there are issues with certain products it would be nice to know that up front. Rapport is being offered by my bank which is why I tried it. I'd like to be able to recommend it to my customers but I can't because of the potential performance issues. Prevx SafeOnline worked better for me.
     
  25. Scoobs72

    Scoobs72 Registered Member

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    They have a compatibility list, but according to this NIS is ok:

    http://consumers.trusteer.com/compatibility-other-security-software
     
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