Independent Restore Imaging

@Samy:
reread Post 62
https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1617580&postcount=62

And:

That is a source of multiple misunderstandings, here and elsewhere.
HTH

 

now i understood nothing

now i understood nothing

but is there an answer in easy english ?
the 2 quotes are in contradiction, inconsistency


about shadow protect 3.5 h.i.r.
can i use only the winpe cd without install the program on my pc and use my cd to image and restore partitions with the H.I.R feature?

 

The original drive that is imaged has to have ShaowProtect installed on in. That way the new drive will also have it installed on it once you have imaged the old drive to the new drive. The H.I.R. process occurs after the imaging process.

No. No way. Not if you want to use H.I.R. ShadowProtect needs to be installed on the partition that has been imaged, thus it will also be on the partition that is being reimaged.

The answer will be the same no matter how many times you ask the question.

 

thanks
but the previous post makes me more confusion then clarity
but i find very stupid the shadow protect strategy

 

Hi Mantra

After reading n8chavez last post "I think" I understand now the process.

1. You can backup your HD (or the C drive i.e. the OS) using the Rescue Disc and restore your system to the existing HD (if corrupted by viruses) using the same Rescue Disc even though SP is not installed on the HD.
No H.I.R. needed in this case. This is the classic and straightforward backup and restore to the same HD on the same PC.

2. If a hardware need to be replaced (Motherboard, HD, etc.) since being out of order or to upgrade the PC, then the PC with the new hardware needs new drivers to boot through the existing image (saved backup) you have just installed on the new PC using the Rescue Disc..
In this case H.I.R. feature is required. But the issue is: the H.I.R. can be activated only if the HD (on the new or upgraded PC) have SP installed on it.
How to do that? by making a backup of the system you want to restore (to the modified PC), with SP program installed on it . I.E. your image has SP program in it, and when you are reinstalling/restoring it to the new PC, the PC still is not able to boot (because it needs the drivers), but , now H.I.R. can enter into action and, using the SP program resources (which is within the image) find the requested drivers, or very similar drivers to allow the system to boot. After that you can find and install appropriate drivers.
In my own words (and sorry for the bad English): "H.I.R. can 'talk' only to SP program"

3. Here are my assumptions (assumptions only)
- If I have to replace only an IDE HD , then IMHO no H.I.R and no SP program (in the backup image) are needed
- If I have to replace only a SATA HD which for sure will need different drivers, then the H.I.R. feature (and SP in the image) will be required.
- Of course, if another hardware is replaced, or using a new PC, then the SP program (installed in the image we want to restore) is a must, without it H.I.R. cannot be activated

4. my conclusion:
IMHO "to be on the safe side" - to perform backup from within windows.


n8warez
Your comments/remarks on the above are very appreciated.

 

That's pretty much it. Is anyone is intending to use ShadowProtect then in my opinion it is never a good idea to image a drive using the recovery media, since you cannot use the H.I.R. options when restoring that image onto other hardware (and have it boot properly). It is a good idea to always image within windows because you never know when you'll need to restore it. Also, you would not be able to mount images cerate using the recovery disc as virtual drives within windows.

I am not sure what the aversion is to the windows version of ShadowProtect, but get over it. If you want to use ShadowProtect do so within windows, relying on the recovery disc only for restoring. If you want H.I.R. "like" technology without using ShadowProtect then I suggest you read this thread, focusing on Drive Snapshot, or any imaging application that can run using a PE disc, and TBOSDT. I will briefly summarize it.

The ability to restore an image to different hardware is all about injecting drivers, and if needed the Hardware Abstraction Layer. These generic divers are required in order to tell your old software how to communicate with the now new hardware that it's being restored to. HAL(s) are needed to sort of emulate the kernel and prevent it from having to be coded for every imaginable hardware configuration. That is essentially what is being done with H.I.R. restorations, or any other term used by various products to mean the same thing.

The TeraByte OS Deployment Tool Suite has the ability to do just that, provided you have a copy of generic drivers. It will inject the drivers you chose after your image has been restored to your new hardware. It also has the ability to change the HAL. Drive Snapshot can inject drivers (see this section on migration to different hardware) but it does not have the ability to modify the HAL, which is needed. This is just another way of manually doing what ShadowProtect's H.I.R does automatically. This way can be done without the limitation, but you will need to supply the drivers and HAL(s) to inject. For that I suggest generic driver packs.

One apparent lacking of ShadowProtect has been mentioned, but there are others. The PE disc that comes with it is limited to only ShadowProtect related activities, i.e. imaging and restoring. I prefer to use a "true" PE disc which gives me the ability to use portable applications housed on my flash drive, which can be useful if I need to run malware scans or change disk partitions.

I hope that helps.

 

samy,

No, that is not correct. All image/restore apps can restore an image to a new SATA HD without requiring HIR.



n8chavez,

A question. If SP is installed in the OS and you then create a cold image using the boot CD, should that image be good for HIR? My guess is, yes.

You mentioned you can't run portable apps from the SP boot CD. Some friends run portable apps from the CD. Drive Snapshot is one example I recall. Or did you mean more complex apps?

 

In that case, yes it will work. At least it has for me when I was testing. But why would you want to use the rescue disc if you have it installed already?

Drive Snapshot is a special case, because it is a single executable. I was referring to more complex applications; such as Hitman Pro, Partition Wizard, Opera, OpenOffice, AVPTool, etc.

 

Maybe you explained this somewhere else, but let me just say that it's OK for you to image using only the recovery media as long as you have installed ShadowProtect on the OS volume that is being imaged. You don't even have to use that ShadowProtect install. It can even be the trial which expires. I just has to be there. After it has been installed, then you can do all of your imaging from the CD recovery environment (if you so choose) and the HIR stuff will work just fine.

 

Yes, the image will be good for HIR in this case.

 

Let's just simplify things with a few guidelines:

1) If you want to restore a ShadowProtect image to a completely different computer, then ShadowProtect must have been installed on the source volume (the source of the backup image that you intend to restore) before you made the backup. This is true for backups made with the installed product as well as for backups made from the bootable CD recovery environment.

2) If you're physically moving a hard disk (which contains an OS) from one machine (and old machine, say), to another machine with completely different hardware (different CPU, storage controller, motherboard, etc), then you can use ShadowProtect to make sure that the OS on that hard disk will boot on that new machine (no backup or restore involved - just use the standalone "HIR Configuration" tool). The limitation here is that the OS volume must have ShadowProtect installed on it (even if it's merely an expired trial, not in use).

3) Limitations 1 and 2 go away with "ShadowProtect IT Edition".

 

That will work. But I did question why a user would have it installed and still only chose to use the recovery disc. After all, the negative things, such as having VSS and the two other ShadowProtect services, will still be running in the background so I don't see much point to that.

 

n8,

I don't know about SP users but many of the old DOS Ghost users believe a hot image is witchcraft and is not to be trusted.

 

yes
paragon and O&O can do it ,without have them installed

 

That is true. But the negatives of using those products have been discussed here in this thread, so it would be a good idea to read it and learn about their respective drawbacks.

 

Having used SP Desktop for a few years I've got to say that I agree-it's just not very user friendly.
And their user guide is the opposite of KISS.
Even though SP is rock solid, if I ever find a really good stable imaging program that's as easy to use as turning on a light switch I'd jump ship in a second.
Just my own thoughts.
Hugger

 

well paragon has a option to disable slip image file
and can include drivers
i did not find negatives side in paragon

about o&o i guess it uses windows 7 or vista drviers that covers a lot

 

Update: The ShadowProtect 4.x Desktop/Server Edition Recovery Environment (CD) requires that ShadowProtect is both installed AND activated on the OS volume before the image is taken of the OS volume if HIR is to be used later (from the 4.x recovery environment) to restore an image of that OS volume to a different machine. In the past, it was possible to simply install a trial (non-activated) of ShadowProtect. Sorry guys - not my call - if you're concerned, this is probably a good reason to hold on to your 3.x recovery environment CD. Don't worry, we're very careful to maintain forward and backward compatibility with our images. You can use a 2.x or 3.x recovery envionment CD to restore a 4.x image (and vice versa, in fact), and we plan to continue such compatibility.

 

with a colleague we made an attempt to transfer the OS and data from the HD of one of his laptop (IBM Thinkpad) to another one (HP). His intent is to wipe-off the HD of the first laptop in order to sell it and use the HP one in lieu. He is running XP Pro and has SP installed on the first laptop.
The IBM laptop HD has two partitions C and D and both have been backup to an external drive.
We used the HIR as part of the restore process of the C drive (first step) to the second laptop. When the C image was restored to the new HD C partition, we got the user account icon. After typing the password and activating the "finger detection" (both laptops have this feature) we got the desktop with the "wallpaper" but, immediately after that a window pop-up asking for Windows activation.
Note: We got the desktop wallpaper (picture) as on the first laptop but all the folders icon didn't show-up. It seems that the pop-up window prevented that.
we followed the wizard (connect using the Internet) of this window and inserted the requested OS key (we got running Belarc on the first laptop). After a while we got "error 404".

1. What was wrong with the process above
2. Using the HIR to a different hardware, is the OS re-activation requested.
3. Is the original OS (XP Pro) installation disk requested for this process (it is not available....laptop known issue).

thanks

 

Any time there is a significant hardware change you're going to have to re-activate Windows. That's just the way it works. You cannot use Windows until that is done.

The 404 means that the host was unreachable. Perhaps the activation server was down. You can always do it over the phone.

 

@Hugger :

Heh: IIRC that was one of the 'issues' for many who looked at IFW & BootItNG: the wheel keeps turning. !!

There are many rock solid imaging tools available: the end user/desktop level user confusion begins with some restore options and more specifically with the HIR mechanisms and complexity of same.

( then, to compound the problem for end users: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1700696&postcount=118
The goal posts shift in the middle of problem solving ..I know...shyte happens... good for SP for retaining compatibility. )

Lots of these complex tools have their 'real' application value and benefit in the corporate mix and might be regarded as too complex for daily use : most..in fact I'd wager..the VAST majority of home users wouldn't know an 'image' from a smack in the face: users here are an interesting sample

It does need some testing and a relatively deep knowledge of the tools available to get the best out of the them, it's debatable , to me anyway, as to whether 'simple' desktop end-users get any real benefit of some of the advanced options available in these tools: there may be easier pathways to get what is needed.

For more in depth users: lock'n'load

 

Hi everyone,

I have been away from this forum for several months, but am now back because I am looking for some help. I have an IDE hard drive with Windows 7 installed on it. This drive is from a machine of mine that has been through a hardware failure. I want to make this hard drive boot up on my laptop. I have this IDE drive connected to my laptop via a USB2 to IDE Drive Adapter. It recognizes the drive just fine. The problem is that when I try to boot to this drive, the Windows loading screen comes up and then I get a BSOD. This is obviously because I need to install the correct drivers on this OS before I can boot to it.

I have been doing research on how to do this using TBOSDT (free version). I have read through the PDF's included with it, as well as online. I am completely lost and confused. This software is too complicated for me and I am hoping somebody could give me a simple break down of what I need to do to get my IDE drive with Windows 7 to boot on my laptop using TBOSDT(Free), or other software, or TBOSDT paid version if absolutely necessary.

I'd would appreciate the help. Thanks.

 

If I were you I would grad the paid version, as it is a lot easier to use. Also, grab the driver pack that I linked to earlier. That should give you the right drivers.

 

Okay so I will go and purchase it now. But how do I actually run the software and use it. The only OS i can boot to is my Ubuntu live CD. Do I need to run TBOSDT through Ubuntu? Or is there a way to boot into TBOSDT without another OS? Please explain everything I need to do here. I am so lost with how to even get TBOSDT started up. As for the driver pack, I will look for it now.

EDIT: I checked the generic drivers link that you provided. What type of generic drivers do I need? Just mass storage drivers or others as well? Also I am not seeing any drivers at all for Windows 7 on the site.

 

TBOSDT is a Windows based application, so you cannot use Linux. You should build yourself a PE-based bootable disc and run it from there. As far as the drivers, mass storage is all you should need but it wouldn't hurt to have all that you think you could need.