SuRun: Easily running Windows XP as a limited user

Arup I doubt if you would qualify as a typical home user. The title of this thread includes "Easily" and although it may be ueasy for you are you really suggesting that Limited on Xp is reading to be used by more than a minority ?

 

Long View,

I usually setup LUA for my nephews, their moms as well as novice users. I don't implement SRP though but do have DEP on full. Believe it or not, even with less frequent AV updates, these systems rarely get infected and most of them also use USB sticks which they exchange between friends and classmates. LUA is specially a good idea for novices who due to their lack of knowledge are more susceptible to getting a malware into their system and getting infected from it.

 

Sorry -we seem to be talking at cross purposes. You say "I usually set up". That is part of my point. Would these people know how to do it themselves ?
I assume that you don't let them use old programs that wouldn't work ?

 

Since they are novices, everything has to be setup, not just LUA. Most of them don't even know what to do with firewall prompts or how to manually update AV. LUA makes an ideal safety net for people of this disposition. By old programs, none of them have required to run anything except accounting stuff which run fine under LUA.

 

Well, I'm sorry but I can't get on board with this LUA stuff. It is not for the "Master Of My Domain" reason though. It just seems that every time I get in the mood to try it, my computer just bogs down. I know my computer very well and all of my programs open within a half second of the mouse click. When I am in limited, I get the spinning hourglass. It is not for long (maybe 3 seconds) and it is not 100% everytime, but it is enough to infuriate me. I wish it did work, and maybe mine is an isolated case. Maybe Windows just can't handle a bunch of different activities with different permissions and such. The fact that Microsoft reccomends it means less than zero to me - in talking to the masses, you would have to reccomend it. Have to pass....

 

I have that problem too on one of my systems. In the admin account everything is fast, in the LUA account everything is slow.

 

SuRun 1.2.0.1 is out.

Changes:

 

@tetsuo55 and MitchE323: I've never seen any slowdown under LUA on any machine, and I can't see any reason why this should happen. Either your systems are misconfigured or you might use applications that are not LUA compatible.

 

All newer standard applications I'm aware of are fully LUA compatible. Take, e.g., Microsoft Office or OpenOffice, browsers (IE, Firefox, Opera), email programmes (like Thunderbird), AV prgrammes and HIPS (like KAV, Avira, CFP, SSM, Online Armor) - they work flawlessly in a limited account. If you really still use an older application that doesn't and for which no update is available, there is a high probabilty - as Arup already mentioned - that they might be affected by security leaks. Usually there are better alternatives that do not cause trouble.

From hearsay I know that there are some badly programmed games and P2P apps that are not LUA compatible but most of them should work with SuRun (or runas).

 

There is no slowdown of any sort with LUA whatsoever. Having implemented it on various PCs from powerful to basic to old, I can say that there is virtually no imact on software running under LUA.

 

Pretty strong statement, considering that a fellow member quickly posted a similiar finding. Hmm... Two comments so far and it must be my computer that is misfigured and plus it NEVER happens anyway. Thanx guys. I never said it was a very big deal, maybe you've grown accustomed to it. I am a minimalist with the computer and security programs, so I am indeed interested in the approach. Software in general I agree, I can't really remember a problem there. But it seems to be with Windows in general. Educate me; suppose your system is doing something and accesses any of the files on your comp - it doesn't matter what it is doing or what files are being accessed. Ok, now supposed you simoutaneously do something that also involves some of those same files (of course while in Limited). I mean; is this the one isolated area where Windows performs flawlessly?

 

Perhaps it would be best to provide examples.
Was it the OS in general, or your programs? If your programs, name a few.

Note i'm not arguing either way, but i'm interested.

 

No problem Pedro, I would say the OS in general and Office programs but not really software programs as you mean. Also working within Windows Explorer ... just get hourglasses where never before did I get hourglasses. Don't worry about it - I didn't want to send the thread off topic. Next time I get the urge to try it, I'll try to gather some documentation.

 

You're quite on topic imo.
Before i go (i have to), check if you have some explorer extension or anything that could interfere.
?

Cheers

 

The only thing along those lines maybe could be WindowBlinds. (I know that is not the smoothest thing ever invented but the comp is too damn ugly without it lol) - maybe I'll format a partition and try it without WindowBlinds. PS; Thanks Pedro, but I gotta go too - later.

 

My case:
-everything fast as the admin
-everything slow as the lua user

I have the following installed on my system(only lists what loads into memory):
-adobe flash plugin
-nvidia nforce drivers
-ati radeon drivers
-x-fi drivers
-avira
-dotnet all versions
-surun

 

There are chances, where some programs seem to slow down in LUA, in fact, they might try to do an write access, where they are not allowed to. Mostly such things can be solved by some configuration.

But if as said word by word "everything" slows down, there is definitely something broken, either in the system or in the account. Explorer, notepad, wordpad, paint, calc and so on are designed to work in every kind of account. This statement is the proof, there is something wrong with the system.

Taking the given list above and eliminating the drivers - dotnet is by MS, the others would not get a certification by MS without supporting LUA - there are at the end 2 third-party apps: Avira and Flash are both proven (in millions of installations) to run in any kind of account.

 

Thats why its strange.

The second i give the LUA account admin rights its fast again, go back to LUA and its slow again.

It does not happen on my other pc (exact same hardware and software)

 

So the question is not: Is there something broken?
But: What is broken?

To find out, if it is the specific account or the system, create a new limited account for testing.

 

Ok, I have taken the plunge - after reading and rereading this thread - and on a fresh install of XP Pro I have created a limited user account and are beginning to install my favorite softwares.

Sometimes, eg with MBM, SuRun notifies me that the program "seems to require elevated rights to run properly" and it offers me that option, that's fine.

However I am now attempting to install Firefox 3.0.1 and I obtain a message (translated) "no writing access to the installation directory" (Program Files). Does it mean I need to install as administrator - which would not make sense to me in my present limited understanding - or what should I do?

Thanks for any help!

 

Any or every program needs admin rights to be installed, thats the rule, of course most of them don't need admin rights to run.

 

How can that be? My two kids just installed Google Chrome, a full browser, in Limited Accounts today. What good is LUA?

 

Many programs have traditionally required admin rights to install, but there are programs that don't. For example, if a program can be downloaded and run from a folder or icon on your desktop, it doesn't need admin rights to install.

 

Ok. Does this mean I need to install from the Limited Account as Admin?

 

Yes or you can switch to admin and then install. Either way you are fine.